Open 202 - Friends JK 9 (Game Over)


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Post Post #175 (ISO) » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:47 am

Post by Wdjat »

Sleepless Assassin wrote:
Wdjat wrote: Sleepless Assassin's line of questioning to ConfidAnon looks like he's just trying to turn nessarae56's confused posts into a scum read on ConfidAnon so he has an excuse to lynch him.
Oh, no, confusion isn't the case on Nessa at all. Read up in this post and maybe you'll see what I was looking at.

And if you want to call scummy actions excuses, then yes, I'll find excuses to lynch anyone who is scummy.
Man, I saw nessarae56 as mostly nonsensical. That pressure from me was me trying to be nice. I promise. I don't share your scum read on her.
Sleepless Assassin wrote:
Wdjat wrote:By trying to force ConfidAnon into making that read, he setting himself up to avoid responsibility if ConfidAnon turns up town.
He doesn't have to make the read, but just being able to look at her posts and give us an opinion of her play shouldn't be that hard.
He did eventually. It looks like it was a matter of asking the right way, maybe. Now the fact that he immediately started talking about nessarae56's alignment could be telling. I'll give you that, but your line of questioning wasn't "Why are you so worried about your alignment that you mention it first thing?" It was "Why don't you do that awkward thing that is clearly awkward and damning to you?"
Sleepless Assassin wrote:
Wdjat wrote:I agree that flawed logic isn't a scumtell by itself, but this post where he responds to that flaw being pointed out with more pressure pushes my read from stupid to scummy.
I don't think my logic is flawed at all.
This was pretty clear to me so I'm not sure how it wasn't to you. Maybe flawed logic is not the term? Your response to it reads like willful ignorance.
Sleepless Assassin wrote:
Wdjat wrote:Given your suspicion of nessarae56, what did you hope to gain by having ConidAnon speculate on the scumminess of nessarae56's play?
Nothing. I didn't ask him to. Someone else did and his response caught my eye.
So your goal in this post was not to get ConfidAnon to talk about it?
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Post Post #176 (ISO) » Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:00 am

Post by Wdjat »

semioldguy wrote:
Dry-fit wrote:
semioldguy wrote:Wdjat is currently the next best lynch after SerRose in my opinion.
Care to elaborate on this now?
For reasons previously stated. Additionally post 118 seems disingenuous to me. It makes little sense to me that wdjat is stamping the okay for wanting anti-town players for living until tomorrow. His not wanting to lynch SerRose or Lowell based on what I feel are likely horrible reasons. It looks to me like he is trying to keep some easy targets alive regardless of whether they are scummy or not. He doesn't give a suitable explanation for why they might be town or that we shouldn't lynch them.
Man I sure did. SerRose has no history, but he also seems to have no clue so I value scumtells from him lower.
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Post Post #177 (ISO) » Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:05 am

Post by Wdjat »

ConfidAnon wrote:Gah. Wow. I should probably reread this thread . . . I haven't really felt invested in this game yet, and I need to get my head back into the game. It will probably happen tomorrow night.
Wow. This is a pretty sketchy post.
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Post Post #178 (ISO) » Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:58 am

Post by semioldguy »

Just because you give an explanation does not automatically make it a suitable one.

Your recent posts, however, look much better and more genuine. I disagree about SerRose though, and don't think anyone should have lower value for scum tells, just different tells which are more appropriate. This is true of all players.
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Post Post #179 (ISO) » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:12 am

Post by Sleepless Assassin »

ConfidAnon wrote: No matter how I go about answering that question, I feel as though you would still call me scummy . . . which, now, looking back at it, makes it seem like fake scumhunting.

Unvote, Vote: Sleepless Assassin


What answer to that question would have led you to say "that seems town?"
Nice OMGUS.

Anyway.

Basically anything along the lines of "yeah, she wasn't playing well, but I know she's town......etc" would have "seemed town".
WDjat wrote:your line of questioning wasn't "Why are you so worried about your alignment that you mention it first thing?" It was "Why don't you do that awkward thing that is clearly awkward and damning to you?"
I don't feel that it should be awkward for town.
Wdjat wrote:So your goal in this post was not to get ConfidAnon to talk about it?
Nope.

I was pointing out what I saw as scummy.
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Post Post #180 (ISO) » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:35 pm

Post by semioldguy »

@Mod: Votecount and prod on ConfidAnon please.

Also I would like to request a small deadline extension to allow time for prodded players to return to the game or time to allow for a replacement to be found for them if they don't.
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Post Post #181 (ISO) » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:55 pm

Post by Meji Fan »

ConfidAnon has been prodded

Sleepless Assassin - Confid Anon, Wdjat
SerRose - Dry-fit, semioldguy
ConfidAnon - Lowell, Sleepless Assassin, TDC, don_johnson




Not voting - SerRose

Per request, deadline is now 11:59 PM Mar 10 CST
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Post Post #182 (ISO) » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:33 am

Post by don_johnson »

extension doesn't really alter my view here. lurkers need to post.
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Post Post #183 (ISO) » Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:17 pm

Post by Meji Fan »

SerRose and SleeplessAssassin have not posted for 48 hours after being prodded and will be replaced
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Post Post #184 (ISO) » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:25 am

Post by Sleepless Assassin »

Um, I posted 2 days ago.
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Post Post #185 (ISO) » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:39 am

Post by TDC »

Probably meant CA.
Anyway, LA until Monday.
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Post Post #186 (ISO) » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:21 pm

Post by Meji Fan »

My apologies, somehow I missed that you had posted when you still hadn't picked up your prod

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Post Post #187 (ISO) » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:26 pm

Post by Dry-fit »

@Semioldguy- What about Wdjat's recent posts looks better?

Not really much else to say until we hear from Confid/replacement.
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Post Post #188 (ISO) » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:25 pm

Post by Regfan »

Hey everyone! I'm going to need a few hours to re-read the thread and post my thoughts can I ask that no one hammers or tries to rush end the day during that time.
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Post Post #189 (ISO) » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:37 pm

Post by Regfan »

Okay, I've done an entire massive re-read and I've put all my thoughts about the game under player headings so it might be hard to understand but I'll try my best.


semioldguy


Quick changing of votes of the beggining possibly in hope to cause a bandwagon on Serrose, he then starts asking questions about whether others have played with each other or not. This in itself is a town tell as gaining a good meta on your opponents is a VERY strong tool, its shown in this quote.
"TDC, have you played with Lowell before"
In relation to Ness he comments saying:
"I'm thinking slightly more likely town as an "oops, I messed up and don't want to deal with my screw up" sort mindframe. Though it wouldn't be unreasonable as scum, I think if that were the case she would have stayed at least a little bit longer to attempt defending herself.

We should look elsewhere for scum for now."
This is a very good point, if she was mafia I think she would have got much more defensive and played the newbie card to an even bigger degree.

He mentions that SerRose was acting anti-town because he wasn't hepling and his posts were scummy but at the same time doesn't mention Lowell who has been doing a very similar thing.

He moves on to actively scumhunt and ask questions at the same time not tunneling on anyone like many other players are.

Overall read on semioldguy - Strong read as a Townie.





don_johnson


Calls Semi obv scum straight away there's a possibility that this was a small early buss. He then brings in the option and consequences of a policy lynch, I find this to be very townie, as although he explains how it can be good, he also brings up an excellent point which is it rarely ever works here. This is all shown in this post;
"my knowledge of lowell is that he lurks. fatally so. i've read him lynched as doctor. i have yet to read a game of his where he participates a good deal and responds to pressure. he's a good candidate for policy lynch, however, i have yet to see a policy lynch on this site hit scum. so... "
He then progresses to further scumhunt although he has yet to make a strong case against anyone, I'd like to see more of his thoughts on every player in the game.

He ends up voting just to get a hopeful lynch done before deadline, where he votes in this post:
-"vote: confid

L-1. nobody hammer. let's get a claim. he doesn't look good on reread. two days to deadline. discuss... "
This is a townie move, to ensure no one hammers and to put a pressure vote so close to the deadline, however a claim straight away isn't the best way to do it, watch for his reactions and get him to naturally claim instead of insisting him to.


Overall read on don_johnson - Medium read as a Townie.




Lowell


He Comments that he's unlynchable possibly a soft-pr claim early in the game for no real reason, this is shown in this post:
"@semi- while I appreciate your desire to protect me, you forget I'm pretty much unlynchable. "
He then Bandwagons on Serrose without and reason and doesn't add any content or thoughts on the game. He then defends it by trying to say it was due to a lack of attention and still doesn't add his thoughts on the game.
"unvote

sorry wasn't paying attention, didn't realize that was L-1. Just felt like a good bandwagon."
I've noticed he mainly comments on the 'funny' or sarcastic comments in the game, and none of the in depth play. He tries to use Serrose's inactivity as an excuse to put him back at L-1 and hopefully get a quick hammer.
"Who knows. People are touchy. Serrose doesn't seem to be in any hurry to rush to his own defense, though, so whatever. I'll probably put that vote back. "
The one attack and FoS he has made in the day was quite interesting, it was on Confid with some valid points, showing some small signs of scumhunting, would love to see his thoughts on other players though. The attack on Confid could be an attempt to push the lynch however I think it is a genuine sign of scumhunting.


Overall read on Lowell - Small read as a Mafia.


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Post Post #190 (ISO) » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:32 pm

Post by Regfan »

Wdjat


He starts of the game by expanding on Semi's talk about past experiences.
"Could everyone talk about previous experience with other players? I don't know any of you."
He progresses to start interrogating Ness and trying to get some information out of him, he did this through questioning on his thoughts and reasoning, this is shown particularly in this quote:
"You can tell us why you decided your reasoning was bad while you're at it. "
Wdjat's vote and his FoS seems to be jumping around however he explains his reasons behind his votes quite solidly. He shows signs of activeness and potential scum hunting, but I don't have a strong read on him at all.

Overall read on Wdjat - Null Read, if anything Small Read as a Townie.




Dry-fit


I've noticed he doesn't actually add much content to the game, he just questions people here and there, and that's about it. I believe he tried to push suspicion back onto Serrose unnecessarily and attacked Don for wanting to 'redirecting' power roles, when he just merely suggested it was better to check then lynch Serrose which is indeed correct.

From paste experiences (This game I was in, especially by LordChrono's play):

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13355

The mafia tend to be semi-active and ask a lot of questions to appear 'townie' but don't actually analysis or take a stance on anything until forced to or called out.

Overall read on Dry-fit - Medium read as a Mafia.




TDC


He brings up a meta about Lowell and Dry but uses the excuse of being too lazy to go into it.
"Dry-fit rings a bell, but without the search function I'm too lazy to search for whether that was as player or mod. Maybe he knows. "

He moves on to starts asking Semi for links with Lowell and seems to be actively hunting.
"semioldguy: I'm still curious about your experience with Lowell. Any links where he was the early wagon? "

He then tries to get conversation going about the thoughts on the SerRose wagon, this is a very townie post as a bandwagon that starts on someone should be due to reasons from each of the voters and an opinion on the person they are voting.
"Could everyone on the SerRose wagon (and Lowell) tell me where they see him on a 1-10 scale from "anti-town" to "scummy"? "
I see him trying to help the town, but my gut isn't exactly screaming townie from him, I'd like to see him start listing his FoS's and reasons behind them.

Overall read on TDC- Medium read as a Townie.
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Post Post #191 (ISO) » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:27 am

Post by Regfan »

ConfidAnon/nessarae56


This player seems to be the contreversial player of this game so far, and everyone seems to be bw'ing on him. His first comment of the game really and its illogical and doesn't make sense.
"i mean since he said that it would make one palyer an easy target.. since they played together. he himself will be an easy target as well there for he has made himself better know to me. "
On page two he tried to defend it using hte newbie excuse saying:
"noted that i'm just watching this player as he make's it easy to seem that he make's himself a terget. and no i have no scumbuddy i'm a newbie"
Again the very next post he continues to use this newbie excuse saying:
"ahh right well you know thing's are hard for me since. i'm new here. cut me some slack."
He pretty much admitted what he said was scummy and was asking for a new leaf to be turned over, but you don't do this in mafia and is a very scummy move.

Confid replaces him and starts to analyze and help in the game, his posts don't seem particularly scummy at all to me, I just think he replaced a newbie player who is naturally scummy. This comment from him really makes sense to me and it's true, people tend to tunnel, I don't think ANYTHING he could have said would have changed your view on him because of his prior player.
"No matter how I go about answering that question, I feel as though you would still call me scummy . . . which, now, looking back at it, makes it seem like fake scumhunting.

Unvote, Vote: Sleepless Assassin

What answer to that question would have led you to say "that seems town?" "
Although this was a bit of an OMGUS I can see where he is coming from and his posts haven't really struck me as mafia, but at the same time I don't have a strong town read of him.


Overall read on ConfidAnon - Null Read, if anything Small Read as a Mafia.






Sleepless Assassin


He is someone I really can't get a read on, he seems to be looking at things from an analytical angle which is really good and can lead to a lot of discussion but I haven't got any gut feeling on him whatsoever yet.

It's things like this:

"Is TDC your scumbuddy?"

That make me uncertain whether he is townie or mafia because I don't see why a mafia would bother to ask that question and I don't see what a townie has to gain from asking that question.


Overall read on Sleepless Assassin - Null Read.



Sorry for the massive chunks of posts I'm not very good at summarizing my thoughts, overall I don't see ConfidAnon is the correct lynch for today, however I would like him to come and defend himself right now


Vote: Dry-fit
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Post Post #192 (ISO) » Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:46 am

Post by don_johnson »

hello and thanks for replkacing in. this game is breathing heavy and labored. i can support a dry-fit wagon. its nice to see that someone noticed his odd behavior besides me. i always find it difficult to build a good case against someone who is attacking you without having it look like omgus and being discredited, so i appreciate your insight there.

first inconsistency i see in your posts, though, is the idea that my early semi vote could be a buss. this is just after you give semi a strong townie read. just seemed nonsequitur to me. i would like to look through your posts a bit more. with five days to deadline i think we need more participation. i am not moving my vote unless confid comes back and convinces me to at this point. dry-fit being my number two and not being on the confid wagon also makes me think we might have this one right, but we'll have to see and get more participation from others.
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Post Post #193 (ISO) » Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:59 am

Post by Regfan »

first inconsistency i see in your posts, though, is the idea that my early semi vote could be a buss. this is just after you give semi a strong townie read. just seemed nonsequitur to me.
What I'm trying to say from it is you saying he was 'obv scum' there, seems out of place. I never said that it was a buss, or that I think it is, I said there's a possibility of it being so.

Also on another note, has anyone thought about tactics to do with our power roles. Here's what I've thought of and no one should claim until we have all discussed it please.

A) Tracker claims today, Jailer jails tracker and tells him his real identity in jail, we have two clears for tomorrow and since mafia can't kill tracker (He's protected by the jailer) then mafia only have a 1/6 chance to nail a pr. If they don't nail the jailer the tracker can 'direct' the lynch tomorrow.

B) Tracker claims today, Jailer 'wifom' jails the tracker (They don't tell us what they are planning on doing) and mafia might shoot at the tracker, where there is a chance he is jailed meaning no kill saving us a day.

C) No one claims at all.
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Post Post #194 (ISO) » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:40 pm

Post by TDC »

Not much time, but the jailkeeper can't communicate with whoever he jails at night.

Both power roles best stay hidden.
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Post Post #195 (ISO) » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:37 pm

Post by Meji Fan »



ConfidAnon has not picked up their prod, and is being replaced

Sleepless Assassin - Confid Anon, Wdjat
RegFan - Dry-fit, semioldguy
ConfidAnon - Lowell, Sleepless Assassin, TDC, don_johnson
Dry-Fit - RegFan
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Post Post #196 (ISO) » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:35 am

Post by semioldguy »

Dry-fit wrote:@Semioldguy- What about Wdjat's recent posts looks better?
As said I find his posts to be more genuine. Don't know how to explain it exactly.
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Post Post #197 (ISO) » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:41 am

Post by semioldguy »

Aslo, the player who gets put in jail is roleblocked. So jailing the tracker as a plan will not get us any information.
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Post Post #198 (ISO) » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:41 pm

Post by Dry-fit »

Regfan wrote:
Dry-fit

From paste experiences (This game I was in, especially by LordChrono's play):

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13355

The mafia tend to be semi-active and ask a lot of questions to appear 'townie' but don't actually analysis or take a stance on anything until forced to or called out.

Overall read on Dry-fit - Medium read as a Mafia.
:Shrug: Asking lots of questions is my playstyle. I haven't done a lot of analysis this game because my top suspect is SerRose and he never really posted enough to do much analysis. The cases on CA and SA don't really interest me.
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Post Post #199 (ISO) » Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:56 pm

Post by Regfan »

The cases don't interest you but you do nothing to prevent the lynch of something you don't believe in??

Also, I've replaced Serrose and if she was your biggest FoS, then analyze me then, or ask me questions. Don't just shrug and say 'its my playstyle', that seems like a fairly poor excuse to me.

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