Ythan wrote:Point one, Sando plays like a human and I have seen the extent of his response to my attack.
Point two, Grid is astronomically, incomprehensibly, cosmically anti-town in any role and needs to be either lynched or NKed as soon as is convenient.
Therefore
unvote vote McGriddle
You have never in the handful of games I've played with you been anything but a pox on town and I don't expect that it will be any different here.
Ok, then what exactly am I supposed to say then? I specified in my post why I voted for Ythan. Fate completely takes what I say out of context, so I further explain my actions. Then players start just saying things that pretty much boil down to "I think you did it for this" or "It seems like you're just trying to do this". Those responses really can't be answered in a non-WIFOM fashion.Sando wrote:Still think that Leech's retreat to WIFOM is contrived.
"He did this, so he could respond with this, which he could use to cover up his initial act" is a WIFOM in itself. How do I not respond with WIFOM when your case is built on it? The fact of the matter is, I clearly stated my reasoning. Whether or not you agree with it is up to you. I decided to make a move and told you why. I'm not sure what else there is to say. If you don't want a WIFOM response, don't bring it to me in the first place.Sando wrote:Really not liking Leech's WIFOM reasoning for being town. It seems like the whole thing was designed to let him WIFOM defend himself.
Okay, I'm back and I have to say this:McGriddle wrote:Ythanhavingfitz wrote:Hello. Starting my read but if you would all tell me who is scum it would help immensely.
D'oh!McGriddle wrote:look at 236 fitz.
Your words.Leech wrote:I'm normally perceived as being town, even when I am actually scum.
Leech wrote:I almost never vote for someone until I have a good enough reason to do so. In the RVS I always toss out a vote and leave it there until I have a good reason to change it.
These two quotes are in immediate succession in your iso. First, to address the two posts together, this seems to be a contradiction. To address the latter post on its own, you tried to start a wagon on the most vocal player to make him talk more. You explain in your next post.Leech wrote:There's absolutely nothing happening in this game. Normally I'm much more active than this, but there's nothing really to discuss. So in the spirit of getting things going, let's start a wagon on the most vocal player:
Unvote, Vote: Ythan
I choose the most vocal player, because I know he'll respond and get discussion going. Hopefully more than just one-liner 'you're an idiot' type of posting though.
You say here that you wanted me to make posts with more content, but you yourself admit that nobody else is posting much content either. So, not a watertight explanation. I am also wary of claims that you were offering yourself as bait for scum. The simpler explanation is that you just said something questionable.Leech wrote:That wasn't my reason...misrep much? If you read my post I clearly stated that I voted for the "most vocal" in hopes that he'd add more than just a ton of one-liner posts that aren't really adding. Quantity is not better than quality. He has a high quantity of posts that don't amount to much. Then again no one, myself included, does. However, I feel that if Ythan starts contributing more content, rather than small content-less posts, than discussion will follow. Failing that people will jump on me, which has already started, resulting in discussion. Either result is beneficial.
Very plain WIFOM.Leech wrote:So, let me get this straight. You find it more likely that I'd jump in there and say: "Nothing's going on, so I'm going to start discussion even if it puts the focus on me." if I were scum?
You're soft-selling/distancing from a case and also saying that you think the "post more content" vote you had placed on me was somehow still better left there than moved to someone from whom you saw questionable content.Leech wrote:For the reasons I've stated, I felt my vote made more sense on Ythan. Applying a vote that would undoubtedly be discredited as an OMGUS, would only allow him to twist things further, if that was his intention. It might not have been an intentional misrep, rather than getting lost in communication anyway. So, I'm still not completely certain on whether or not he intended to take my reasoning out of context. It seems that way, but I'm not certain enough.
Do you think this is scummy or did you just want to make it clear that you found it odd?This is the first thing that really concerns me in this thread. I admit I haven't posted much, but I never lose track of what I was thinking at the time of a post. In every game I've played in, I've never had a hard time remembering why I said something that I had said. It's one thing if you change your mind on someone, but to forget why you had a read on someone? I'm not so sure.
Do you still think this?Leech wrote:Now, Fate, his most recent post calling for a policy lynch really seals it for me. I think he is the scummiest in his actions. I am starting to believe that my initial thought was right and he was intentionally misrepping my post. He's apparently willing to risk lynching town just so there is less of an exchange between Ythan and Sando. That's not a pro-town state of mind.
Unvote, Vote: Fate
I'm not yet to the point of commenting on Grid and the survey itself, but I will say that if you don't dispute Konowa's logic behind the problem of surveys, but only exempt Grid because we asked him to participate, then you should think twice. Asking him to participate came after. It does not indicate that his motivations were not as Konowa said.horrordude0215 wrote:It's starting discussion... how do you see it as scummy? And we're not giving McG a free pass just because he made up the questions... Ythan even asked him to answer them himselves.Konowa wrote:I wish I had a daykill right now, I would have definitely used it on you McGriddle. In my experience, surveys such as this serve only to draw attention away from real discussion. Actually, they also end up giving the person writing the survey a free pass while everyone else squabbles over the answers. There is no reason to trap scum when they do obv scummy things like surveys. You know, in the future I am probably going to start policy voting players who do surveys.
Something to take note of, speaks for itself.horrordude0215 wrote:Good question... I really don't know what I was thinking at the timeKonowa wrote:@horror: If you do not see Leech as scum, then why did you say the above?horror, post 123 wrote:What's the point of a McG wagon? You see him as scummy because he asked questions?
Leech, possibly, but I don't see McGriddle as scum right now
Do you think the bolded is meaningful or constructive at all?McGriddle wrote:sheesh, I am just trying to get conversation going. There is nothing about that that is distracting.It is all about what kind of players people are so in the future of the game we know their style of play.Also there is nothing going on in the game.
This is really plainly OMGUS without any reference to scummy behavior.McGriddle wrote:Vote: Ythanfor being mean to everyone ever, and accusing my questions of being scummy. They are general questions, not really that special.
Even when you get it on the right person. Did you consider your first vote (very first) to be anything more than RV?McGriddle wrote:Whoops meant konowaUnvote, Vote: Konowa
Please explain this.McGriddle wrote:EBWODP: and he also looks like he is jumping at a quick wagon after what f1fi said. BTW f1fi don't hold a grudge on me for that other game I am not allowed to speak about lol.
Where to begin. You call it a slip. You say rarely, which I find both debatable and also sufficient to allow for doing it here. You call it an excuse, which just doesn't make sense. And as for arguing against the tell, please elaborate. All of this is compounded of course by the fact that I was commenting on a specific post and not using it to clear the player.McGriddle wrote:I have been playing this game too long to let this slip go untouched.Ythan wrote:For that post? Reads as newbie to me.
Unvote, Vote: Ythan
You rarely ever use the reads newbie excuse, you are usually the one arguing against that tell.
Aiming for a MK is more anti-town than anything you can say I've done in this thread.McGriddle wrote:What Ythan? I'm an idiot? Is that not mod killable? personal attacks?
And this in your very next post.McGriddle wrote:nothing is really sticking out to me.
You never really provided any evidence for your vote. Now that you've gone from a vote to this it's even worse. Your grudge isMcGriddle wrote:No I do not. Ythan is scum. And you are right. Long standing grudge, but that's not affecting my vote.
How do you like this one? So much better.Fate wrote:Is that... a...
Baccano! avatar!!!?!?
YTHAN LETS BE FRIENDS!
Why please.Fate wrote:Nah don't settle for Magna, Thatguy was definitely the way to go.
Unvote:
Vote: Thatguy
