Mini 938: Weeds Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Ythan]

Ahaha, lets badnwagon sando indeed.

unvote vote Sando

Wish you could explain why.

Nothing to say about Fitz yet.

[Ythan]

Oh yeah Fitz, what has your avatar been in the past?

[Ythan]

Vote: Ythan

for complaining about my second post. You ask a question and bitch about the response? This is going to be loads of fun I can tell

Disproportionately whiny. A taste of what is to come.

I think we have more in common than Baccano.

Any reason you want to buddy up to Fate here?

Or get modkilled. That also solves the problem

So the obvious solution is to get modkilled somehow instead of calling you on your short, reactionary posts and general lack of content (aside from Post 54)? I think I'll see where option two leads, thank you.

I trust that your failure to understand these points has been cleared up by now.

Do you believe that bouncing around your vote with at best superficial reasoning is anything other than Anti-town / scummuy?

How are you going to explain that it

is

anti-town or scummy?[/quote]

Earnestly trying to drum up a wagon, noted.

I suppose asking a player to defend their actions and positions is trying to drum up a wagon. Glad you noted it as that's the basis of the game we are playing.

This is a clear misrep instead of addressing anything relevant.

Trying to drum up a wagon on smoke and mirrors. Scummy.

How is this not exactly what you are doing?

You still were doing this and I still never was.

1. What do you think of Ythan's posts so far? Do you think he is scum-hunting?

I find that contributions like this tend to be active lurking and a common way to build a case as scum.

What observations do you agree with?

Your activity reads as promoting a fluffy back and forth regarding myself instead of scum-hunting.

Ythan's posts are specifically crafted in a way to most shield himself from scrutiny.

I can't see a pro-town reason to make this up.

They are brief. He has usually dismissed criticism as scummy, newbish or simply stated it was wrong without providing support.

You forgot to explain how the criticism was not just that. It's key to this point you were trying to make.

Is this scummy? Perhaps.

Soft selling or distancing from an attack, whichever you want to call it.

[havingfitz]

Oh yeah Fitz, what has your avatar been in the past?

Will Farrell playing some cowbell.

[Ythan]

Ythan, it seems he also got lynched on day one of the game he did it as scum. I guess I don't need to tell you that, since you were there. But I found that somewhat interesting.

What is the meaning of this? You were obviously trying to do something by posting this. Oh, but you answer with this.

Interesting in the way that it was coincidental... Konowa wants to lynch him day one for posting that survey.

Konowa wants to lynch him. The day is regardless. Your previous post is still suspiciously out of the blue.

I'm not voting for him for that. You're awfully quick to point that finger at me.

OMGUS accusation.

Ok, my bad. You're quick to vote for me.

Just like Ooba, Magna twice, Mcgriddle, Sandro and 1ifiri. Granted, I'm confident two of those are RV, but you're hopping around a good amount.

And yet you still found the vote on you notable?

unvote: vote: Ythan

Jesus. Here, being a man and putting a vote on you. I think it's ridiculous, you've voted so many damn times I don't know what exactly you're trying to accomplish? Are you just voting to see if you can get people on board with you? I don't get it, everybody seems to be a major suspect to you.

You make no reference to any scummy behavior here. It's just a follow up to the OMGUS accusation.

To keep it short, at the time I wasn't ready to cast a vote, it was more of pointing it out at the time, and making note of it. Now I come back and see Ythan is still leading us nowhere and is throwing out short responses as commentary to everybody elses posts. EVERYbody is obviously scum, and eventually, one of his votes is going to stick and lead to a bandwagon.

Leading you? Commentary? Scum-tell please. Also, when Leech I believe said I was calling everyone obvscum he at least promptly admitted his mistake.

Right now, to be honest, the way Ythan has been working, it just reads town to me, I think Ythan is actually doing some scum hunting.

This or the

immediately preceding post

in your iso is probably disingenuine.

So to answer your question, I'm thinking Leech

vote leech

. The way he attempts to defend himself just seems like a clever ploy for scum. So right now, personally, he's my best bet.

You pretty much just said scummy because scummy. More please.

Look, it's day one, I've got nothing more to go on then my gut instinct, and they way they read,

This doesn't jive with the reasonings for your earlier accusations.

[Ythan]

Oh yeah Fitz, what has your avatar been in the past?

Will Farrell playing some cowbell.

Now I remember, you were my IC in another game I think.

[Ythan]

Accusing someone of distancing off an RVS vote is silly, and Konowa seems to be continuing the tradition.

Why please.

You use RVS to defend your actions with:

Do you have any idea what RVS is? There's a wiki for things like this, it's linked at the top of each page.

Yet you attack me for 'distancing' in an RVS vote.

I wasn't distancing, which is what you just said I accused you of.

112 and 115 are good examples of scumhunting. He has identified conflicting statements and draws attention to them. He also tries to ensure that earlier questions are not ignored or forgotten by players.

Your thoughts on the fact that he was also tunneling? Is that something that concerns you?

When his original post is answered, he follows up. He's showing conviction and intent, he's not just doing it to look good. Town scumhunt to find scum, hence with conviction and intent, scum scumhunt to find town and confused town, hence without conviction of their arguments, because they know that they're lying.

And you don't feel that any other player in this game did the same?

Ythans attacking of Magna looks pretty similar to what he's accusing Grid of doing. Seems out of character for Ythan, but I've only got a very small sample size here.

I still believe that your "sample size" does not justify a legitimate call here on what's in or out of character for me, which indicates that this is bad.

You're tunneling Magna, who is pretty consistently scumhunting. You're basically doing what you're accusing Grid of doing.

I am and was looking at more than one player, so I was not and have not at any point been tunneling. It's ironic you'd accuse me of that considering Magna, who you call a consistent scum-hunter, was doing just that.

So wait, you attack me because there's a small sample size, we haven't played together much. Then you attack me for saying that...

You're insane.

Don't bother accounting for yourself, just call me insane and ignore the rest.

Clearly OMGUS? Maybe you should clear up your other problems before you give yourself more to talk your way out of.

I say something bad about you, you turn around and vote me, with absolutely insane logic. Yeah, clear OMGUS.

I find that trying to paint a vote that happens to closely coincide with an attack as OMGUS without any less circumstantial evidence is a common scum tactic. Along with accusations of tunneling when they don't properly apply, which you've also done.

I've explained how your accusation was just plain silly,

That never actually happened.

given you've accused me of something that I readily stated was the case prior to that.

Doesn't change anything.

I've also never voted you, and I haven't even accused you of being scum here, your accusation that I've OMGUS'd you is similarly ludicrous.

I think you misunderstand what OMGUS is. It need not apply specifically to a vote.

I think that you're tunelling on Magna, and I think this is out of character from how you've played this game - I haven't and won't back away from this.

Except I clearly wasn't tunneling and despite that you haven't tried to explain some interesting explanation as to why you think I was. And, that can't possibly be "out of character" for how I'd played this game. What was it contradicting that I had done earlier?

You decided to attack me for not knowing your meta, considering that I'd already qualified my statement about your play to say it was based on a small sample size, your accusation was stupid.

Qualifying it doesn't change anything and calling it stupid out of the blue just highlights the fact that you don't have any substance to post.

You've attacked me for not distancing by saying that I don't know your meta, and you've accused me of distancing away from my accusation, in the same post. You're an idiot.

You did two things worth pointing out and I did both. Also don't bitch out please we're not even a dozen pages in at that point.

I'm done with this argument, I should never try and argue with an idiot, they bring you down to their level then win with experience. You can keep your OMGUS vote on me, I'll leave it to others to sort through your tangled mess of logical fallacies.

Anti-town and more bitchy/whiny.

When I discussed why I felt Magna was pro-town at this point, you felt I was over-interpreting his actions. Given that I only have his actions to interpret, this is a null-statement that basically means nothing.

No you just didn't understand it properly. You were making interpretations too broad for the small amount of evidence.

I felt you were looking for a reason, any reason, to reject my reasoning on him being town. Your reply was a flippant 1 liner backed by no evidence.

Your reasoning was a pointless one-off backed by no evidence. Do you expect that I will need to break out the rocket science to dispute that?

You then disagree with my statement that scum rarely have reason to hunt scum.

This never happened.

You state, in your case for why I am incorrect, that scum have reason to hunt scum because it helps them fulfill their win condition.

Oh I see, you're just misrepping me as saying that scum need to hunt scum when I said that scum need to appear to hunt scum.

hence tunnelling.

You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Ythan]

I expect to see something from ooba today.

[Ythan]

And nothing on Konowa thus far. Vote upcoming.

[Ythan]

Leech contradicted his claim regarding his voting style. His wagoning on me is odd. His explanation for the same is not up to snuff. I don't buy his claims regarding being bait for scum, I think that's just an afterthought to cover himself. He soft sells a case on and then votes Fate based on two posts he clearly misinterpreted and I think it's a stretch to say that he really didn't understand them.

Grid has OMGUS, a flimsy and over the top attack on me based on a newb read (not newb tell) of a post, aims for an MK, has an odd comment about nothing stick out despite all that, and acts sure of his case on me despite the fact that it doesn't exist.

Magna consistently makes arguments based on poor logic and tunnels.

Thatguy made a weird post early on that was never accounted for properly, OMGUS accuses me of being quick to vote him over questioning it even though he seems aware that I was bouncing my vote around, votes me with no content regarding scumminess, continues this after the vote, seems to contradict himself in a positive comment about me (not in that it was positive, read my thatguy iso for the content), doesn't provide any reasoning when he votes Leech either, and then seems to contradict his entire hunting process at the end.

Sando argues that scum can't distance in RVS, consistently defends the tunneler Magna and singles him out of all players to praise, tries to meta me without meta, doesn't feel a need to expalain the same but just gets to bitching, pretends he properly explained things he didn't, and often claims I'm tunneling and OMGUS without any support which are both common to scum.

Gonna vote one of these.

[Ythan]

Grid is a good vig target but based on what I know of his play it's a tossup whether he's scum or not. He should not be the lynch today. So, Leech or Magna or thatguy or Sando.

[Leech]

You say here that you wanted me to make posts with more content, but you yourself admit that nobody else is posting much content either. So, not a watertight explanation.

I understand that it wasn't a watertight explanation. However you are known for posting a lot in games and eventually offering up a lot of content. Looking over the last several posts from you, I think that proves my point. I figured that you could easily get this game on track.

Very plain WIFOM.

Yes, that was a WIFOM defense. However, the quote I was referring to was one where the player I was responding to was claiming I'd be more likely to do that as scum. It was a response to a WIFOM accusation in the first place. It's hard to break the concentric circles of wifom once it's been presented to you.

You're soft-selling/distancing from a case and also saying that you think the "post more content" vote you had placed on me was somehow still better left there than moved to someone from whom you saw questionable content.

I wasn't really distancing from a case, I was unsure of whether or not my suspicions were accurate or if I was simply chasing ghosts. I felt at the time that the vote on you served a greater purpose. Now, looking back, I realize that my play was actually rather stupid. I'll be the first to admit that my original idea wasn't thoroughly thought out, and I should have thought about what I was doing more before I did it. It made sense at the time, but not so much looking back.

Do you think this is scummy or did you just want to make it clear that you found it odd?

I wanted to point it out because I found it odd. I don't see why someone would lose track of what they were thinking. I've made some bad decisions in this game, and I'll be the first to admit that I'm playing very badly, but I can at least remember why I made the moves I've made.

Do you still think this?

I do, actually. I find that a lot of "jokes" in games can be tools to find out who would actually be onboard for such an event to occur. It's far too easy to just jump in later and say "I was only half-kidding" I actually condone this or just say "Oh, it was a joke" if it doesn't pan out.

[Ythan]

However you are known for posting a lot in games and eventually offering up a lot of content.

I don't think this is true. Where did you hear this?

I wasn't really distancing from a case, I was unsure of whether or not my suspicions were accurate or if I was simply chasing ghosts. I felt at the time that the vote on you served a greater purpose. Now, looking back, I realize that my play was actually rather stupid. I'll be the first to admit that my original idea wasn't thoroughly thought out, and I should have thought about what I was doing more before I did it. It made sense at the time, but not so much looking back.

This is another explanation that could be true but is still not as good as if the incident had never occurred. Know what I mean?

[Leech]

I don't think this is true. Where did you hear this?

I've read a lot of games, and do browse the GD quite a bit. A lot of people talk about how much you post in games. After reading a few in your wiki, most notable your replacement into 889, you seemed to post a lot more content in your posts.

This is another explanation that could be true but is still not as good as if the incident had never occurred. Know what I mean?

Yes I do, hence my acknowledgment that I am playing a particularly bad game.

[Ythan]

I have a soft spot for the occasional suspicious player who actually answers questions, so I'm going to wait and see if anyone else will oblige as well.

[Fate]

How do you like this one? So much better.

Actually I'm having trouble distinguishing who that is. Jacuzzi was so much more recognizable.

Rail Tracer?

[Ythan]

Red hair, white suit. Yes, Claire.

[Fate]

Regarding Ythan's latest contributions:
-I've played with McGriddle a few times before. A game I am in him with is almost over, I can say more then. Agreed he is a good vig target.
-Need more from Danakillsu, horror
-Thatguy, Ooba, and Konowa have disappeared.
-Sando and Magna are in the same category for some reason that I can't put into words right now. More active than the rest, I guess.

I'm willing to give Leech a pass for now, if only for being as Ythan says, "a suspicious player who actually answers questions."

Unvote: Leech

Vote: Thatguy00

Rinse and repeat until they are all more active or they give subpar explanations for their play.

[Ythan]

That's the plan anyway.

[thatguy00]

Ythan, it seems he also got lynched on day one of the game he did it as scum. I guess I don't need to tell you that, since you were there. But I found that somewhat interesting.

What is the meaning of this? You were obviously trying to do something by posting this. Oh, but you answer with this.

Interesting in the way that it was coincidental... Konowa wants to lynch him day one for posting that survey.

Konowa wants to lynch him. The day is regardless. Your previous post is still suspiciously out of the blue.

I'm not voting for him for that. You're awfully quick to point that finger at me.

OMGUS accusation.

Ok, my bad. You're quick to vote for me.

Just like Ooba, Magna twice, Mcgriddle, Sandro and 1ifiri. Granted, I'm confident two of those are RV, but you're hopping around a good amount.

And yet you still found the vote on you notable?

unvote: vote: Ythan

Jesus. Here, being a man and putting a vote on you. I think it's ridiculous, you've voted so many damn times I don't know what exactly you're trying to accomplish? Are you just voting to see if you can get people on board with you? I don't get it, everybody seems to be a major suspect to you.

You make no reference to any scummy behavior here. It's just a follow up to the OMGUS accusation.

To keep it short, at the time I wasn't ready to cast a vote, it was more of pointing it out at the time, and making note of it. Now I come back and see Ythan is still leading us nowhere and is throwing out short responses as commentary to everybody elses posts. EVERYbody is obviously scum, and eventually, one of his votes is going to stick and lead to a bandwagon.

Leading you? Commentary? Scum-tell please. Also, when Leech I believe said I was calling everyone obvscum he at least promptly admitted his mistake.

Right now, to be honest, the way Ythan has been working, it just reads town to me, I think Ythan is actually doing some scum hunting.

This or the

immediately preceding post

in your iso is probably disingenuine.

So to answer your question, I'm thinking Leech

vote leech

. The way he attempts to defend himself just seems like a clever ploy for scum. So right now, personally, he's my best bet.

You pretty much just said scummy because scummy. More please.

Look, it's day one, I've got nothing more to go on then my gut instinct, and they way they read,

This doesn't jive with the reasonings for your earlier accusations.

Look, so I just tell you what comes to mind. If you want to dissect every little thing I say, and say it's scummy, so be it. I've obviously gone way over my head in playing in this game and can't so much as explain my reasoning by dissecting every little sentence to explain my reasoning to you guys, so I guess I'm just not as experienced and wouldn't mind if you voted me out now.

So Ythan, Horrordude, and Fate. You're right, I'm total scum. Lynch me now, because I can't play as well as you on the first day. I already explained I'm shitty as hell on the first day, so I can't seem to help out much. I'm not help at all, so lynch me.

unvote

no more voting for me, right now, i'm just scum either way, so vote me and get the day done with.

[Fate]

Ding ding ding?

We have a winner?

[Leech]

Look, so I just tell you what comes to mind. If you want to dissect every little thing I say, and say it's scummy, so be it. I've obviously gone way over my head in playing in this game and can't so much as explain my reasoning by dissecting every little sentence to explain my reasoning to you guys, so I guess I'm just not as experienced and wouldn't mind if you voted me out now.

It's not a dissection of "every little sentence" from what I see. In fact, this seemed to start from a single sentence that you've yet to provide any sort of backing for:

So to answer your question, I'm thinking Leech vote leech . The way he attempts to defend himself just seems like a clever ploy for scum. So right now, personally, he's my best bet.

What about Leech's defense of himself seems like a ploy? Provide some detail. At first blush this looks like opportunistic voting by someone looking to find a wagon and hop on. Your vote back at ISO 9 looks more and more like this also.

Look, it's day one, I've got nothing more to go on then my gut instinct, and they way they read, I find it extremely difficult to try and dissect every single sentence on day one, because there's not much behind it that I can see. You can take my words they way you perceive them.

If that seems scummy to you, then vote me for it. Day two and beyond, it gets a helluva lot easier for me, but day one kills me, and I don't have the time to dissect every thing and post it in a neat fashion for you. Leech is my gut instinct, if you don't like it, don't agree with me.

So, brief recap:
1. You say that my play looks like a scum ploy.
2. Magna asks how it looks that way.
3. You say that its just gut and also its day one and its difficult to dissect every little thing.

After that, it's more reiterating the same exact point about not being able to dissect small details. Who was asking you to? You made a statement, and someone asked for more information about it. I'm not sure what's causing this explosion of being a crappy day 1 player, when you were just being asked why you felt a certain way.

I really don't see the point in your "I wouldn't mind if you voted me out" statement either. That's not really a good defense. If you are town, then we shouldn't lynch you just so we know you were telling the truth. There's nothing productive about that approach, and will only hurt us in the end.

[Ythan]

No we wait and see if he's modkilled, blacklisted, and banned first.

[thatguy00]

It's hardly a defense. If it apparently calls for modkilling, blacklisting and banning, so be it...

I explained that I can't define a gut feeling, when people ask me to explain why I said this, or that, and then give their analysis of why I said this and that. I thought Leech was scummy because things he said seemed to suggest that everyone is twisting your words around. Simple as that. It's fucking page 11, what would you like?

No one specifically said to explain myself, but just because it wasn't expressed directly, doesn't mean it's not insinuated. Ythans entire post is entitled specifically towards tearing every word I say and expressing a meaning behind it. I'm not saying I don't think it's fair. I'm just saying I'm apparently not experienced enough for day one in a mini game. Vote me out. End of day one.

[Ythan]

Admitting that you're scum is the problem, now we just need to sort out if it's true, if you're taking a dive for another player, etc.