mini 943- Greek Mythology! (And the winner is... ?)

[Plum]

V/LA until Wednesday night.

Vote Count

Shadow Dancer- Jack, VasudeVa, greenindirt (L-4)
VasudeVa- Bio Hazard (L-6)
Plum- Johoohno, Flava Flave (L-5)
Iecerint- Snow_Bunny (L-6)
Shattered Viewpoints- Plum, Iecerint, Mindgamer, Shadow Dancer (L-3)

~Searching for a replacement for Bio Hazzard.~

With 12 alive, its 7 to lynch.

[Snow_Bunny]

Ah, I'm completely lost on this. Might as well reread everything (once I have enough time, that is).

For now, would someone share the points against SD?

One thing I find odd was VV's call for the opening votes. Sounds like a well hidden role-fishing. But that may just be me.

[Iecerint]

That's the second time someone's asked for it, so I'll do it. Points against SD:

1. He dicevoted. Scum would be more likely to dicevote to make their RVS harder to interpret. But this fits his meta. Anti-town/null here IMO.
2. He voted you in his subsequent post. Jack thinks that was scummy because your vote for me was just RVS. I think it was fine because Jack had just asked SD to make a diceless vote. I think this is a weak tell at best.
3. His tone when he voted you was off. Scum are more likely to have "off" tone. But it's probably because English is his second language. Null.

That is it AFAIK.

[Johoohno]

@ Iecerint:

Yes, I am also reading Shattered Viewpoints ”hyperbole”-comment as something he made up on the fly (and I still believe that tells us more about play style than alignment).

GiD did not explicitly indicate that his vote was for pressure. That's just how Jack interpreted it.

I don't have much to add to it, but I think some increased pressure on SD might prove worthwhile.

Vote: ShadowDancer

Above quotes struck me a bit odd, since you seem to keep thorough notes judging by post 152 above.


I am a bit under the weather and will be back with a more substantial post once I'm feeling better, in a day or two.

[Iecerint]

I have totally been misremembering that GiD post since before the interaction with Jack. My bad.

I don't take any notes at all. I remembered the other because I have already addressed those issues at length.

[Mindgamer]

I'm verry sorry, but I will have to replace out. Real life has taken a very, very awful turn so I have too much on my mind. This game is only at Day 1 so a replacement won't damage the game too much. I hope you can understand.

I wish you all good luck in the rest of the game.

[Snow_Bunny]

That's the second time someone's asked for it, so I'll do it. Points against SD:

1. He dicevoted. Scum would be more likely to dicevote to make their RVS harder to interpret. But this fits his meta. Anti-town/null here IMO.
2. He voted you in his subsequent post. Jack thinks that was scummy because your vote for me was just RVS. I think it was fine because Jack had just asked SD to make a diceless vote. I think this is a weak tell at best.
3. His tone when he voted you was off. Scum are more likely to have "off" tone. But it's probably because English is his second language. Null.

That is it AFAIK.

If that is all, then I can hardly say that's scummy. The only thing I would acknowledge is the dice vote.

[Iecerint]

Ya. Keep in mind that I'm not really a neutral party. I had hoped someone who isn't Jack or me would do it. <_<

[DeathNote]

~LordChronos Replaces BioHazzard. Thanks LordChronos!~

[LordChronos]

Hello all!

Unvote

while I read the thread. If anyone has questions for me, feel free to ask.

[VasudeVa]

Welcome LordChronos! And TTFN, MindGamer.

Unfortunately, this is a "I'm still here post". I am having a busy week due to relatives visiting(and staying in mah cribz).

So far, none of the new activity has caught my eye. All accusations to me is what I expect to be the natural reaction for town for bringing that up.

[Shadow Dancer]

I was trying to find ways to make the mechanic work for us rather than against us. A quick reread of the game made me think that we were treating this almost too much like a normal game.

Could you elaborate on that a bit more? I am not if I understand what you mean here. Assuming that ny "us" you mean "town", why do you think the game mechanics disadvantage us? And why shouldn't we treat this like a normal game? The basic game mechanics are not really different.

[Iecerint]

I now have a second, more recent scumgame on the site. I think I played it differently from the other, so it might give another impression.

Fables Grimmafia

[greenindirt]

Sorry I'm having a hard time catching up on this, can't concentrate. You'll have to wait longer until I get the chance to absorb more of this, when I'm not hungover. I will try and respond if someone has a specific question though.

[DeathNote]

~ooba replaces MindGammer. Thanks ooba!~

[ooba]

/confirm.

Will catch up in a few ..

[ooba]

My skimming of the posts:

Post 15 - VasudeVa - Buddying up?

Post 20 - Vas - 8 hours from the start of the game and we get this ? - "People need to post.".
Also "Nothing scummy about that(yet). Carry on." is disturbing.

Post 22 - greenindirt - a little over-defensive

Post 26 - Johoohno - Odd. Why the need to single out Iecerint when some other players hadn't posted at all?

Post 41 - Iecerint - Isn't this akin to mind reading? How are you so sure greenindirt voted because of Reason Y?

Post 52 - Shattered Viewpoint - Misreping another players posts is inherently scummy. greenindirt was only trying to get at what Iecerint was referring to.

Post 57 - greenindirt - Surprised by the lack of reaction on his part to Shattered's lying comment. I would have probably voted SV at this point.

Post 58 - Iecerint - Does not get that phased by "doesn't matter anymore" part of the previous post. Does not vote greenindirt nor SV in this post. Wouldn't be entirely surprised if there's a scum linkages amongst SV, greenindit and Iecerint

Post 61 - Iecerint - So he did notice the "doesn't matter anymore" part. Still suprised that nobody has taken SV's case here. Vas makes a mention that SV is scum in earlier post. Does not follow up with a vote. First person to vote for SV is probably town.

I find the argument on Page 4 to be distracting. Surprising how quickly it shifts though ..

Post 101 - SV out of the Blue with a don't lurk post. Why doesn't anyone vote or even pressurize him yet?

Hmm never noticed the 20 players slip until mentioned in further posts - not sure what to make of it ..

Post 106 - Plum votes SV!! (finally) Plum is most-prob town.

Post 109/110 - I don't like Iecerint's defensiveness on why he did not vote SV followed by a vote. ( If SV = Scum --> Iecerint = Scum)

Post 111 - Same with greenindirt - Defensiveness about why he did not vote SV. Weak FOS - weaker reasoning of wanting to hear SD's comments

Post 118 - Vas defends SV?

Post 119 - Flava Flave also defends SV - "Votes on Shattered are as bad as votes on Shadow"

Post 124 - I agree with my predecessor's vote

Post 139 - Disagree with post 139 - First of, it wasn't highly observant as Vas makes it out to be. And he starts "Pre-game vote" fishing - cannot see any advantage for town - decidedly scummy.

Post 142 - makes a comment on people hammering. Will post my thoughts on this at the end.

Post 147 - Johoonhno - Not much content - "Trying to appear active" post.

Thoughts:

I think its quite clear from the above that I consider SV to be the most scummiest.

Vote: Shattered Viewpoints

. I do not buy the case on Shadow.

With reference to Post 142, I think the best option for the town is to have the most pro-town player hammering every day.

[Iecerint]

Post 41 - Iecerint - Isn't this akin to mind reading? How are you so sure greenindirt voted because of Reason Y?

Intuition. (I'm not "so sure." It was an RVS vote.)

Post 58 - Iecerint - Does not get that phased by "doesn't matter anymore" part of the previous post. Does not vote greenindirt nor SV in this post. Wouldn't be entirely surprised if there's a scum linkages amongst SV, greenindit and Iecerint

Post 61 - Iecerint - So he did notice the "doesn't matter anymore" part. Still suprised that nobody has taken SV's case here. Vas makes a mention that SV is scum in earlier post. Does not follow up with a vote. First person to vote for SV is probably town.

Why would I vote GiD or SV when I was busy voting Joh? Also, what would be the hypothetical relevance of having missed the "doesn't matter anymore" part be?

Post 109/110 - I don't like Iecerint's defensiveness on why he did not vote SV followed by a vote. ( If SV = Scum --> Iecerint = Scum)

IIRC, you're misreading 109. The correct way to read 109 is that Joh did the same thing as SV, so, to the extent that SV deserves pressure for it, Joh does, too. Then I went into detail about Joh's posts. I find it a little odd that you would apparently get a negative gut from this post, given that you seem to have analogous reservations about Joh.

I didn't see SV's "HYPERBOLE GUYS" post until after 109, so that's why I didn't vote him until post 110. That put him beyond Joh.

[LordChronos]

@FlavaFlave

Why do you feel SV is not worthy of a vote for attempting to make it look like greenindirt admitted to lying? I can see how you might not think the hyperbole thing is worthy of a vote, but not the attempt to frame greenindirt.

@All

I would vote SV now, but I don't feel completely sure that he is our best lynch, and my vote would be the L-1 vote.

Also, I don't like Flava's play so far. He has been pretty much active lurking, posting at the beginning of the game, popping up over the weekend to defend a suspected player, and now vanishing again.

So, I will

Vote: FlavaFlave

[Johoohno]

The time has come to make a list of things I found scummy or noteworthy so far.

• Snow_Bunny:
  Keeping a very low profile, the game I’ve seen her in before I think she played a bit differently (but I’m not sure if it has to do with that being a newbie game). I seriously dislike post 151 where she doesn’t seem very interested in doing any scum hunting herself.
  
• Shattered Viewpoint:
  Not much to go on yet (partly due to told V/LA). You all know what I think of the 20/12 issue. However, post 52 where SV accuses greenindirt of lying where he doesn’t really do this is kind of odd. This doesn’t really get commented until post 106 by Plum (I know greenindirt briefly addresses it in post 57). And that is a few posts after the 20/12 post (post 101). As I stated in post 122 I would like to see some reference as to where Shattered Viewpoint obtained another feel for Plum’s gaming. Neither of them has responded by giving me any kind of link (I know Plum claims she doesn’t know SV from before, but could very well show us some meta on her being town and scum).
  
• Jack:
  I asked about Iecerint following him in post 44, and all I got for answer was “@Johoono: following me in what particular way?”. When I specified later on in post 65 he never got back to that, but he does start to attack Iecerint more. And from there on he is pretty much targeting Iecerint (post 71 & 82 & 87 being the most obvious). When I ask him if SD is his main suspicion in (since he is still voting him) post 122 he answers in 127 that he is suspicious of Vas, SV, SD and Iec and that he kept his vote on SD due to him talking and tying the rest as possible scum partners. I don’t know about the rest of you, but trying to find ties between scum partners in day one is hard and close to impossible unless anyone of the scums screw up. However, getting back to day 1 later in the game when one scum is found might be rewarding. Now he has stayed silent here for some time even though I'm pretty sure I saw him posting in other games in between.
  
• Flava Flave:
  Hard to say anything about him, he is too short in his posts and leaves a bit too much to be interpreted by others (like post 121). I do agree with his attack on Plum though. But his play style seems a bit laid back, as if waiting and hoping for others to do the work. I’d appreciate more posts!
  
• greenindirt:
  A lot of his later posts are about stalling (post 80, post 149 & post 163) and I would like him to commit himself to the game again. (He felt quite active to begin with.)
  
• Ooba/Mindgamer:
  MindGamer didn't give us much to go on, and Ooba seems to be a bit too focused onShattered Viewpoint in post 166 where he comments on important posts so far, as if he really wants SV to be scum.
  
• Iecerint:
  Talks a lot and tries to be everywhere at once. Is kind of buddying up with Jack in their rapid conversation on page 4 and 5. (but that isn’t solely of his making, Jack was part of it too). A town player has very little interest in buddying up with someone, especially after that other one has been attacking him. I am not so sure that this was a town on town argument (that someone else called it). I’m also a bit disturbed by his play style mentioned in post post 122. His misinformation called upon in post 153 and his grasping at straws (Attacking SD’s tone in post 75 and the 12/20 debacle he fuels with a vote in post 110) doesn’t sit very well.
  
• VasudeVa:
  I dislike post 139 where he says Iecerint must be town for being right about SD not having English as his first language. Why would that point more towards town than scum? Is doing a bit of rolefishing in that post and post 142. I would very much like this low profile player with active lurking (post 160) on his menu to step up and bring more personal insights to people’s posts.
  
• Shadow Dancer:
  His buddying up with players is a bit disturbing (patting Iec on the back for finding out that English isn’t his first language and putting a townie stamp on Jack 136), and so is his final words on his SV vote (that it is "momentarily", as if he expects to change pretty soon as something better appears, even though he himself has at lengths motivated why he votes in the first place) in post 144.
  
• LordChronos/Bio Hazard:
  Not much to say here but post more.
  
• Plum:
  Paints a lot of people as town in post 55 on little to no information, smells like wanting their good will. Snaps to life (in post post 106) after Shattered Viewpoint (post 101) calling her play style scummy in comparison to some other performance he seems to have seen by her. My vote is on her in wait of the meta I’ve called for so many times now.

Now this should be fuel for posts and comments in this game that seems to have lost a bit of momentuum as of late. If those called upon above for further participation respond to that request I will present my top three list on my suspiociometer shortly.

[Iecerint]

I got a big paragraph!

Talks a lot and tries to be everywhere at once.

Since when is high activity a scumtell?

Is kind of buddying up with Jack in their rapid conversation on page 4 and 5. (but that isn’t solely of his making, Jack was part of it too)/

Where do you get the buddying vibes? My recollection of the exchange is that we yelled for a bit, and then I told him to STFU because he was just going to give me a stronger scum read on him. Not reminiscent of buddying IMO.

I’m also a bit disturbed by his play style mentioned in post post 122.

To clarify for everyone, the "playstyle" his post 122 mentions is the fact that I made a few posts before I officially had my role PM. He argued that doing this indicated a "playing it safe" playstyle in the event that I received a scum PM. Worth pointing out because that wouldn't have been my first guess as I read that bit. Also worth pointing out because it transparently has nothing to do with my alignment in this game.

His misinformation called upon in post 153 and his grasping at straws (Attacking SD’s tone in post 75 and the 12/20 debacle he fuels with a vote in post 110) doesn’t sit very well.

I never "attacked" SD's tone. In fact, I did the opposite of that. My point was that English is his second language, so analysis based on his tone is not reliable.

lol @ "12/20 debacle."

I agree with you about ooba, though. Especially now that you've posted again, I'd really like him to post more content.

[VasudeVa]

Dead tired from driving around my relatives around. Also a little tipsy. I only have energy to reply to posts directed at me(and I have to do this to three other games. *rageface* FUUUU-).

VasudeVa: I dislike post 139 where he says Iecerint must be town for being right about SD not having English as his first language. Why would that point more towards town than scum? Is doing a bit of rolefishing in that post and post 142. I would very much like this low profile player with active lurking (post 160) on his menu to step up and bring more personal insights to people’s posts.

It's more on my personal reads. I acknowledge being observant as town. Scum don't really need to be THAT observant since they already know much about this game and focus on spreading bad information. Mafia is a game of informed minority vs uninformed majority. The uninformed majority need to be very observant as opposed to the informed minority. Hence, I see it as town.

And how is that active lurking? There were not much posts in between that post and my post before that. And I don't really have much to say about the posts in between. Also, the main purpose of my post is to warn you of my V/LA status.

Could you elaborate on that a bit more? I am not if I understand what you mean here. Assuming that ny "us" you mean "town", why do you think the game mechanics disadvantage us? And why shouldn't we treat this like a normal game? The basic game mechanics are not really different.

Well, primarily because the wincon here is a little different from a typical mafia game. The wincons is either from killing off scum or getting all tokens. If we know who has the token and the person is luckily Poseidon, we can win faster. That was the first plan but it really escaped me back then on how that can be baad against us. I only tried to get some discussion on the mechanic

[greenindirt]

My point was that English is his second language, so analysis based on his tone is not reliable.

I thought your point was that English might be his second language, not that it was. It turned out eventually that it is, but you didn't know that at the time. Or did you?

[Jack]

I don't feel up to giving this game the analysis it needs. But I'd like to say that between Iec's summary of the case against SD and that comment that GiD just pointed out, I'm very much feeling the Iec-SD as partners theory.

[Iecerint]

If we know who has the token and the person is luckily Poseidon, we can win faster.

LOLWAT. You were going to ask the apparent vote-winner whether s/he was Poseidon? XDXD

Scum are reasonably likely to lie about their vote, anyway. Was a bad idea at best.

Jack, do you think my summary of the case on SD was inaccurate or misleading? If so, why haven't you offered SB a more balanced take on the issue?