mini 943- Greek Mythology! (And the winner is... ?)

[DeathNote]

Vote Count

Shadow Dancer- Jack, greenindirt (L-5)
Flava Flave- LordChronos (L-6)
VasudeVa- Snow_Bunny (L-6)
Plum- Johoohno, Flava Flave (L-5)
Shattered Viewpoints- Iecerint, Mindgamer, Shadow Dancer, ooba (L-3)
Johoohno- Plum (L-6)


With 12 alive, its 7 to lynch.

[LordChronos]

Ok, sorry for my lack of activity, I have been busy.

@Joh

Interesting point about Plum. Aside from the coincidence of the timing of her attack on SV and her painting people as town with little info, do you have any other reason to suspect her?

@Andrius

Have you caught up yet? If you have, who do you think is most scummy.

On Flava:

Am I the only person who finds Flava's play thus far suspicious? His active lurking into a defense of SV and back into active lurking, apparently without devoting the time to notice SV's attempt to make it look like greenindirt was lying is really suspicious to me.

[ooba]

Just read the past few pages.
Odd comments by VV:
"If my meta study reveals even a few patterns, my case is bulletproof."
"But your record as scum with that .5 W/L ratio as scum and makes me think that you just did a yet another bad move as scum"

But got to love the meta breakdown post in 221. Overall getting town vibes from him.

Both the top two suspicious players on my list replacing out. What this game needs is a quick SV replacement ..

[DeathNote]

~AlmasterGM replaces Shattered Viewpoints!~

[Andrius]

@Andrius

Have you caught up yet? If you have, who do you think is most scummy.

^^;
Not yet. Sorry, I'm on page 7. This thing called 'Good Friday' and 'parents' totally attacked my internet usage yesterday, so yeah. :/
I'll read some more tonight.

Sorry for the delay.

[Plum]

Checking again, Joh, you voted me in the RVS and somewhere along the line it became a serious vote. It'd be nice to know where. I suppose it's my mistake and you politely suggested twice that I might supply you with meta links, but again, the way you phrased it, and the situation (where it seems that even now you're more interested in SV's perspective on my meta than the meta itself) makes it an extremely weak point for a serious vote.

Joh, my measure for OMGUS is whether there's a legitimate reason to suspect someone who suspects you or not. You seem to agree with my overall reason for suspecting SV, or at least one of my main points against him. But you seem to believe that my motivation was scummy - how so? Part of my suspicions included stuff I hadn't noticed before but should have, and part of it had to do with the hypocritical nature of SV's points against me, both of which I'd consider legitimate scumtells even had they not been directed at me. I found the meta point scummy mostly because he insinuated that he had firsthand/close experience with me on which he based his attack, and I'm nigh certain I've never played with him. The fact that he tried to bring up my meta was not the animating spark against him; it was mostly some stuff found in areread of the game I needed and the hypocrisy of his accusations that I was lurking/not contributing.

Your obsession with my meta, voting me for it and whatnot as I explained above and yet still not evaluating it after I've given it to you - did you even want it in the first place, then?

Iec: My memory does fail me; I'd completely forgotten that you were in Twilight Mafia. I try to be active and sometimes fail; I try for competence and usually succeed. If anyone feels that my activity level in the early game is especially scummy we can discuss it.

Quick summary of Joh's scumminess: Is voting me for not providing meta when the calls for it was phrased as polite semi-suggestions and SV's take on the whole thing seemed to be both more appropriate and what he really wanted; he's not done anything with what I've provided. Reads like an ultimately unhelpful attempt to appear more productive. Misreppy of Ooba's catchup post as all about SV (it's not) while sort of agreeing with the main point Ooba brings against SV. He sort of explained how he could agree with the case on me (based on my SV vote) and agree that what SV did was shady, but see my response above.

he only person who finds Flava's play thus far suspicious? His active lurking into a defense of SV and back into active lurking, apparently without devoting the time to notice SV's attempt to make it look like greenindirt was lying is really suspicious to me.

Yeah that too (his posts tended towards dandelion fluff). But now Joh's going to say all I can do is OMGUS.

[Snow_Bunny]

Just a quick post: @everyone: what do you think of VV, taking into account my case and his reaction?

[Johoohno]

@ Plum:

My first vote on you is in the RVS of the game, but there is still a reason for it other than just throwing in a vote. I’m no big fan of RVS, hence my vote for you starting it up.

Almost every time when I checked in then something new has occurred around you that has been slightly odd or scummy (which is the reason for the vote to be left on you all along):

• post 55 where you paint everyone mentioned as townish (instead of trying to find scummy actions, which I also commented on in the last two lines in post 65)
  
• post 106 where you snap to life and vote SV right after he has accused you. post 101 by SV felt very earnest when I saw it, and at that time SV’s lurking hadn’t yet turned absurd. I felt as if there might be something behind and really wanted it to be revealed (hence the constant asking about the metas – though obviously I would have preferred SV to provide me with the link to where his opinion came from, but found it also odd that you didn't give any though asked for it).
  
• post 114 really felt weak, since I can definitely understand SV and why he doesn’t throw around his vote a lot, I play a bit like that too. More before than now I guess. When you later, in post 129 dismiss flava’s reasoning for being at you I obviously agree with him, calling your reasoning weak.
  
• post 234 hands me your meta from you, which I’m grateful for. I have just started looking at it but I would, as said before, very much have appreciated SV to hand his link instead. It’s also in this post you decide to vote me, without any strong arguments for doing so.

Due to all these small things that I’ve noted all along has made my vote stay on you. I have other suspects too, but others have been at them and gotten answers or responses out of them together with the questions I asked when necessary to me. I agree that SV dropping out now has rendered the question of where he got that feeling of your play so far a mystery unsolvable. I will check your meta (I haven’t had the time until now, since I only got up to speed on the posts at post 248), and when that is done (sometime the coming week) I will reevaluate my vote on you.

@ Snow_Bunny:

Your case on him in post 184 decent but not very strong. His response in post 187 feels like a newbie that dislikes anyone who finds him suspicious (which is a common reaction from a newbie, I felt the same way when I was new to the game). I really disliked the way you didn’t help him with your meta (post 192), especially since he seemed to do much work around it about Jack earlier in the game. I also felt as if your tone or aggression played up towards Vas in post 218. When he then searched and found meta himself in post 221 he made a thorough work and sticks to what he finds there. Now I haven’t checked that meta myself, but trust that others have/or will do so later if need arises due to my being more suspicious of him. I actually like him a bit better than you. I am not really sure how to read Vas yet due to his somewhat newbeish behaviour, but, he is not one of my top three scum candidates.

@ AlmagasterGM and Andrius:

An insightful post or two on what’s happened so far in the game would be most helpful.

[AlmasterGM]

Why hello there.

I'll be contributing to this awesome shortly. But first, I need to do my read.

BRB.

[Plum]

V/LA till Tuesday night; Passover.

[DeathNote]

~Sending out prods tomorrow to give an opportunity for everyone to return from easter break.~

[Iecerint]

ooba, who was the second suspicious one? Do you at all find it troubling that VV's interpretation of SB's meta changed?

I think VV is scum. I'd maybe possibly probably rather lynch SV.

[VasudeVa]

ooba, who was the second suspicious one? Do you at all find it troubling that VV's interpretation of SB's meta changed?

I think VV is scum. I'd maybe possibly probably rather lynch SV.

If you think I'm scum, why go after SV first? Why are you being picky with your scum lynches?

Waiting on the promised catch ups, btw. Game has slowed down.

[Iecerint]

Because I think that SV is scummier than you. Barely. But I vacillate.

[Shadow Dancer]

So... finally...

/unvote

My opinion about SB: Undecided

He is going on the most suspect player. Nothing to say anout that as long as we do not know what VV really is.

Jack: Town

IMO he shows lots of scum hunting. His initial (over?)focus on Iec has the simple reason, as far as I can tell at least, that there was no one else to discuss on or with at that stage of the game.

Iec: Town

I have a very good feeling about him. I see him make good points and very distinct observations. He also shows a high (if not the highest) activity in this game so far. In summary I think he is a player that could prove to be very valuable as townie, definitely some one I would not frivolously lynch.

Too bad SV replaced out. I really would have liked to hear his answer. Now I'll have to keep an eye on his replacement ;\

/FoS on Whoeverreplacesshatteredviewpoint

And, of course,

/vote VV

. This was long due.

[Shadow Dancer]

Some Meta-talk:

I tried to keep it brief (and plan to that in the future because I cannot stand those WoT posts....). So if any one (now or ever) feels I did not adress something properly or wants my honest opinion about something, feel free to ask me for it.

This is now the only mafia game I'm actively playing, so I will do my best to post at least once a day from now on.

[Iecerint]

What about Plum and Joh? And anyone else not on the radar?

[Snow_Bunny]

So... finally...

/unvote

My opinion about SB: Undecided

He is going on the most suspect player. Nothing to say anout that as long as we do not know what VV really is.

First, I'm a girl, thanks. Second, I'm going for the most suspect player??? Did you read well? I'm pretty sure I prefer VV over everyone else top suspect (which I believe it's SV, check the votecount). Wow, this is unbelievable!

To the people whining about me not wanting to post my meta, you should know I'm usually like that. The other time someone requested my meta, I answered just the same. After some time I had to give up and post it as such player was becoming more than annoying. I don't like metas. I find it to be an unreliable source of info. And thus, I wholeheartedly oppose to providing my meta. If you want to use it, at least take the time to find it on your own.

[Shadow Dancer]

Sorry, SB, of course you're right, statistically speaking it is still SV, but SV replaced out and VV is also my top suspect now. And of course, please excuse my gender error, it is nice to have some women around.

[Shadow Dancer]

What bugs me about Joh is that he throws around a bunch of question at virtually every one and uses quote some meta talk but I can onky find a minimum (at best) of opinion in his talk. He also has only voted Plum so far and that was a random vote, as I understand it.

So all in all he has a slight suspicious feeling sticking to himself.

Joh: Would you please elaborate on who are your key suspects and on what your cases against those are based upon?

[Shadow Dancer]

I am really undecided on Plum right now. Is there a specific issue with her, Iec? Maybe I need to read her posts more in context than in ISO. But that may take a while, if I feel the need I could do some massive rereading on Thursday.

[Shadow Dancer]

I do not feel the desire or necessity to comment on the replaced players so far. It seems a bit early to express my opinion. I'll definitely have an eye on SV's replacement.

Any one I forgot?
Oh, right - Flava:

Also undecided/ hard to read right now. Not many posts so far. Another "wait and see" candidate from my point of view...

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWOP: seriously do not know how that stray "quote" found its way into my sentence about Joh. It clearly doen't belong there. So you are allowed to ignore it Also "onky"="only", of course.

[Flava Flave]

Good news, I'm in the Final 4 in Survivor. Bad news, I've been neglecting mafia. Sorry guys, game is almost over.

Assuming he did in fact read them both. He apparently didn't read mine very carefully, because he'd totally forgotten about a game called "OpenSource mafia" by the time I indicated that he could find SB's towngame there.

You are trying to make him look scummier than he is. I really doubt Vas is over there requesting metas knowing that it will make him look town, and then not reading them.

I think Iec is trying to make a point that isn't there about Shattered's so-called lie/hyperbole. Looks like it's just an easy thing to latch onto and he's pushing it as much as he can.

So, other than seeing this rhetoric in Joh's post a bit ago ("12/20 DEBACLE"), where do you get this impression? After I voted SV for it, I just brought it up again when players (e.g. Joh) appeared to misunderstand why it was a scumtell IIRC. Also, this was a widely-endorsed scumtell, so I dunno why you associate it with me specifically.

I'll be honest, I don't understand a lot of what you are saying in this post.

Basically, I don't see any kind of scum motivated lie or hyperbole or whatever the hell we are calling it now. I've seen you pushing it and it seems like you are pushing a case you don't honestly believe. Hint: Scum do that.

Side-Note: I've gotten sketchy vibes from a couple of people who have posted "suspicion!" against me. This is a good sign, because it indicates that at least one player with scrutiny comparable to me is likely scum. This keeps me happy with an SV vote for now.

Not seeing this logic at all.

Let me see if I can understand this. Because you are so obviously town and people suspect you anyway, the people who suspect you must be scum protecting their buddies?

Yeah..don't flatter yourself, you're pretty scummy.

@FF

See post 52. So, basically you are saying that we should ignore that you are active lurking except to defend the major suspect at this point because you are devoting your time to another game?

I find it interesting that your two suspects are both attacking SV.

No. Don't ignore anything in a mafia game ever. I'm just saying that that's why I haven't been around as much as I should. It's up to you to decide whether that's scummy or not, but then again what reason would I have to lie about that as scum. Lurking cripples your team regardless of alignment, so doing it intentionally and then lying about your reasons is just straight up poor play.

And yeah, Shattered is more than likely town and a popular wagon, so I do expect scum to jump that wagon.

Meh, I'm telling all of you, VV is scum.

Stop doing whatever you're doing and vote for him. Gogogo

This seems different than anything in the links Vas provided. You seem more like you are attempting to lead the town rather than follow like you did in those games. I'd like to know why.

Meh, I'm telling all of you, VV is scum.

Stop doing whatever you're doing and vote for him. Gogogo

Another "I'm still here" post? You are so town. I almost do not want to reply to your posts because in my eyes, your alignment is confirmed. Any further alignment is pointless. But whatever, lets play your game.

Um...what?

First of all, how is that an "I'm still here" post?
Second, why make a post just to tell someone who you've already said you have a town read on that they are basically confirmed town? Oh wait, Snow suspects you so you buddy up. K, got it.

This post has swayed me a little on Vas being towards the scummy side, though I'm still waffling back and forth on him...

We better not both be alive in LYLO together because I don't know what I'd do lol.

So, Flava Flave, if the convenience thing was something I did, can you explain what it was? Compare the convenience to SV's hypocritical attacks on me, please.

Let's see if I can remember this. I think you were voting Shadow (popular wagon) and then Shattered (other popular wagon) started to suspect you and you found something scummy about Shattered shortly after and switched your vote.

[LordChronos]

@Flava

Why is SV most likely town? What would a townie's motivation be for misrepresenting a quote to make it look like someone is lying? How can you tell whether Ice believes in the case against SV?

@SD

You said you were undecided on SB and mentioned that she was going after VV, the "most suspicious player." Are you undecided because of this? If so, you do realize whatever point you are making here can now be applied to you as well, right?

@SB

I think that your case is fairly solid. Not as strong as the case against SV, but solid. I also find it interesting that VV is proclaiming that you must be town.