Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[dahill1]

There's also the defense of Izzy, which I find pretty scummy under the circumstances, and more important than the contrived PBPA. The catch-up fluff doesn't help either.

Knew I was forgetting something thanks!

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Vote Count

scotmany12- springlullaby, zoraster (L-9)
dahill1- Thestatusquo (L-10)
mipe - PaltryExcuse, VasudeVad, ksun482, sorasagoof, RichardGHP, FeFiFoFum (L-5)
RichardGHP- scotmany12, Mipe, Yosarian2, Quagmire, korts (L-6)
ksun482- Shanba, dahill1, The Fonz, inHimshallibe, iamausername (L-6)
Paltry Excuse- Anon (L-10)

With 20 alive, its 11 to lynch

Deadline is April 7th, two days from now.

~I am lighter then a feather, yet no man can hold me for very long.~

The riddle answe is his "His breath".

I think you need to check the votecount. sprinlullaby has been replaced by Yos and thus shouldn't be voting for Scot.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Also...

vote ksun

. I'm not sure how available I'll be for the next day or so. Of the three leading candidates, mipe is not going to be lynched else he would have been gone already, and Richard is a bad lynch candidate because I'm fairly confident that he's town based on his play so far.

[VasudeVa]

I'm thinking of a possible scum group effort to steer away from mipe's lynch. Votals feel so chainsaw defense-ish. . Although, it really sucks that we know nothing of anyone's alignment so far, hence these theories are baseless.

This close to deadline though, I think I'll go with the wagon with the townier vibes.

vote: ksun

[RichardGHP]

Unvote Vote ksun

[VasudeVa]

Mod request to stop editing votals into posts. Votals are easier to dig for if searched in ISO. Thanks.

[Anon]

This.

Interesting facts

mipe - PaltryExcuse, VasudeVad, ksun482, sorasagoof, RichardGHP, FeFiFoFum (L-5)
RichardGHP- scotmany12, Mipe, Yosarian2, Quagmire, korts (L-6)
ksun482- Shanba, dahill1, The Fonz, inHimshallibe, iamausername (L-6)

Mipe has not done anything remarkable protown, yet his wagon is full of suspicious/neutral reads from my pov. Mipe can be town after all.

Richard has some interesting votes there. More importantly, Quagmire and korts voting together.

Its interesting to notice that despite ksun being pretty much a "die useless player die" lynch, there are a lot of decent reasoners on it. I think this talks a lot of the lack of decent scumhunting this game has had. Me included.

Vote: ksun.

[DeathNote]

Vote Count

scotmany12- zoraster (L-10)
dahill1- Thestatusquo (L-10)
mipe - PaltryExcuse, ksun482, sorasagoof, FeFiFoFum (L-7)
RichardGHP- scotmany12, Mipe, Yosarian2, Quagmire, korts, (L-6)
ksun482- Shanba, dahill1, The Fonz, inHimshallibe, iamausername, Anon, RichardGHP, DizzyIzzyB13, VasudeVad (L-2)

With 20 alive, its 11 to lynch

Deadline is April 7th, two days from now.

~A Breath~

[dahill1]

Eh I think it's a reasonable lynch. Even if he is a raw newbie as it seems, his behavior isn't what I'd expect out of a newbtown.

[Anon]

Eh I think it's a reasonable lynch. Even if he is a raw newbie as it seems, his behavior isn't what I'd expect out of a newbtown.

how does a newbtown act, dahill?

[dahill1]

Eh I think it's a reasonable lynch. Even if he is a raw newbie as it seems, his behavior isn't what I'd expect out of a newbtown.

how does a newbtown act, dahill?

Like Vas. His recent behavior has totally made me change my mind on him.

[Anon]

Eh I think it's a reasonable lynch. Even if he is a raw newbie as it seems, his behavior isn't what I'd expect out of a newbtown.

how does a newbtown act, dahill?

Like Vas. His recent behavior has totally made me change my mind on him.

Maybe I worded my question poorly.

What exact behavior in ksun do you see as indicative of alignment?

[dahill1]

Following the biggest bandwagons with no reason, posting very infrequently (less telling but I definitely remember being more scared to post as newbscum), trying to appear town by riding off others' cases, posting information to seem helpful.

[dahill1]

useless information that has already been mentioned several times in thread, that is. and i just get a vibe from his posts that he's looking for something to say so he reads through about the last 10 posts and just parrots something they said.

[The Fonz]

I'm thinking of a possible scum group effort to steer away from mipe's lynch.

Nuh-uh. You don't just sling mud at a large group of people like that. (Not to mention that, it's my instinct that if mipe were scum, he would probably have been bussed to death during the fairly long period when he looked like the only game in town, specifically after he claimed townie). WHO on the ksun wagon looks like they are trying to protect a buddy? Is the same true of the Richard wagon? If not, why not?

[inHimshallibe]

I'm thinking of a possible scum group effort to steer away from mipe's lynch.

Nuh-uh. You don't just sling mud at a large group of people like that.

Only point I really disagree with The Fonz on thus far.

I don't think VaVa was "mudslinging" a large group of people. I read it as he wants us to play closer attention to the mipe wagon, and find individuals within that subset. I think this is an excellent, town-motivated idea.

Also, vote sticks - liking the company. ksun is a much better bet than the participating RGHP.

[The Fonz]

I don't think VaVa was "mudslinging" a large group of people. I read it as he wants us to play closer attention to the mipe wagon, and find individuals within that subset. I think this is an excellent, town-motivated idea.
.

Doing it yourself might be an 'excellent, town-motivated' idea. Telling other people to do it is not.

[inHimshallibe]

I don't think VaVa was "mudslinging" a large group of people. I read it as he wants us to play closer attention to the mipe wagon, and find individuals within that subset. I think this is an excellent, town-motivated idea.
.

Doing it yourself might be an 'excellent, town-motivated' idea. Telling other people to do it is not.

Hmm, your point is better when put like that.

VaVa, who are/were your top suspects that are/were on the mipe wagon?

[The Fonz]

He's not talking about the mipewagon, he's accusing the ksun wagon as being an attempt to chainsaw defend mipe.

Incidentally, the whole chainsaw defence 'tell' remains retarded.

[inHimshallibe]

He's not talking about the mipewagon, he's accusing the ksun wagon as being an attempt to chainsaw defend mipe.

Incidentally, the whole chainsaw defence 'tell' remains retarded.

I misinterpreted the whole interaction between you two, then.

Let me rephrase the question:
VaVa: if mipe is scum, who are the top two candidates to be partners with him?

[PaltryExcuse]

mipe wagon

Me

- Approach at your own discretion.

Shanba

- It was his talk with mipe that caused me to give him a second glance. It confuses me as to why he jumped off from one lurker to the next. He says mipe is an easy target but in comparison to ksun, mipe is actually playing the game. Ksun is a way easier target. I don't like how he left the wagon with reasoning that could resemble the new one he wanted to start. He left the lynch when mipe was put at L-2, giving me fleeing-scum vibes.
@Shanba: Who were the 'maggots' on the mipe wagon?

Anon

- Pushed the mipe wagon hard until we got a deadline extension. His beliefs on me are wrong but he seems to believe them.

VasudeVa

- Basically upto, including, and afterwards, Vas has agreed with cases. And then agreed with more cases. One of the more recent to leave the mipe wagon, his reasons seem to be deadline oriented only.
@VasudeVa - You were disappointed that the wagon on him died, and now the next with mipe. How do you feel about dahill1 now?

Korts

- I still get town feelings from him. 'Nuff said.

ksun

- He's done nothing all game which gives me a null tell read on the guy. He's voted on wagons... and that's about it. I find his wagon to be a mixture of policy / deadline lynching.

sorasgoof

- When initially voting for mipe he covers his ass by saying 'it isn't a bandwagon' as if bandwagons themselves made people suspicious. Even afterwards when Korts points out the 'pre-emptive defense', he seems extremely concerned with how he is perceived. Slightly scummy read.

dahill1

- I initially thought, upon my entrance to the game, that the wagon-reasoning was crap on dahill1. Still do. However, what concerns me is that when dahill1 votes mipe, he shows a null-tell on him. Just like Shanba he votes ksun for similar reasons to why he voted mipe. Seemed to abandon the mipe wagon when it was full of votes. More concerningly, waves the townie flag in ISO 51. Points at Fx4 and ksun as useless but later says that he's been urging everyone to switch off of mipe?
@dahill1: What are your reasons for switching off of mipe in comparison to the case on ksun? They seem the same to me and now you're wagging your finger at the mipe wagon.

RichardGHP

- I will say that the guy seems like an intelligent player, however his iso leaves much to be desired. However a soft-claim of a power role / scum (pointed out by our friend mipe) gives me the heebies. I'd say if mipe is scum, Richard is not (and vice versa). That fact keeps me from voting for him.

mipe

- Played bandwagon-y and scummy, and participated more before he was targetted and then lost all interest in playing afterwards. His attempt to scumhunt against Richard seems foolhardy, and a bit town. However, his early play still convinces me to keep my vote where it is.

*Special mention - for being accused of chainsaw*

The Fonz

- His case on DizzyIzzyB13 still looks good in my eyes. His ksun vote looks like a policy lynch but judging from his signature he might be okay with that.

---

Scum reads based on mipe wagon (in order):
VasudeVa
Shanba
dahill1

[dahill1]

However, what concerns me is that when dahill1 votes mipe, he shows a null-tell on him. Just like Shanba he votes ksun for similar reasons to why he voted mipe. Seemed to abandon the mipe wagon when it was full of votes. More concerningly, waves the townie flag in ISO 51. Points at Fx4 and ksun as useless but later says that he's been urging everyone to switch off of mipe?
@dahill1: What are your reasons for switching off of mipe in comparison to the case on ksun? They seem the same to me and now you're wagging your finger at the mipe wagon.

Well for one, I'm pretty sure I didn't have a nulltell when initially voting mipe otherwise I wouldn't have voted. But you are right that the cases against mipe and ksun are pretty much the same and I definitely don't think I'm "wagging my finger" at the mipewagon. If it came down to it I would still lynch him today but I'd prefer ksun or FeFi. My reasons for switching off were basically that 1) some people that I had found scummy earlier were opportunistically jumping on the wagon with little to no reason, and 2) mipe's general behavior seems apathetic to the game which is lynchworthy but I'd rather lynch the person (ksun) who I find has acted so far more like scum would.

What do you mean waving the townie flag in ISO 51?

[sorasgoof]

sorasgoof

- When initially voting for mipe he covers his ass by saying 'it isn't a bandwagon' as if bandwagons themselves made people suspicious. Even afterwards when Korts points out the 'pre-emptive defense', he seems extremely concerned with how he is perceived. Slightly scummy read.

Yeah, I'm so concerned with how people see me I didn't post for five days.

[Korts]

sorasgoof

- When initially voting for mipe he covers his ass by saying 'it isn't a bandwagon' as if bandwagons themselves made people suspicious. Even afterwards when Korts points out the 'pre-emptive defense', he seems extremely concerned with how he is perceived. Slightly scummy read.

Yeah, I'm so concerned with how people see me I didn't post for five days.

If you can't be bothered to play the game, ask for a replacement.

[Shanba]

Ok, this is a big important post.

Firstly, I confess I've been hiding some of my motivations this game. That's because the guy I want to lynch I don't have any evidence on beyond circumstancial and associative tells, and a paranoia in the back of my mind that I can't ignore.

Shea danced around mipe virtually all day. Early game, he was voting based on pretty much anything; a weak vote on Korts, then a bit of pressure on IHSIB. mipe is the first guy he accuses without voting. To be fair, it looks like dahill is by a long way his preferred wagon, but quite frankly the dahill case, whilst a solid one, is weak in strength. So when he states in ISO 57 that mipe is giving him a "HUGE ping on the scumdar" and also that "His stated reason for voting is like completely 100% incompatible with reality" it surprised me that he was not pushing the mipe thing harder.

So I push for more info. I get my vote on mipe and bluntly tell Shea to vote him, but rather than addressing either the case I made or the one PaltryExcuse was pushing, he just gets shitty that I told him where to vote. Seriously, I simply can't understand what his problem with that is when not two posts before he was pressuring mipe? It's like he doesn't want to vote mipe but isn't comfortable saying so outright.

Which is why I'm so amazingly annoyed that he's gone and likely is not coming back; with the dahill wagon disintegrated and the mipe wagon in full steam, what would he have made of it? Now I'll never know!

There was other stuff that fed my paranoia: for example, this is his stated case on dahill

The case lies in the motivations he had for doing it. My argument is basically this:

1) He pointed something out to the town
2) The only reason to point something out to the town is that you find it scummy.
3) Since the action was not scummy, it stands to reason that he was attempting to get a misslynch from it, IE get other players to jump on the noob.
4) The fact that he later disavowed himself from this position lends credence to the previous argument.
5) This is as good of something to go off of on day 1 as I've seen in a long while.

To which I responded

For a start, he wasn't addressing GHP. He addressed the town. Secondly, his motivation here is supposedly that he wants GHP to understand that this action is anti-town - if that were the case, why wouldn't he just explain to him in the first place rather than making a big song and dance about it?

It would make much more sense if he had thought that GHP was scummy - then he's bringing the issue to the town's attention. But he claimed that wasn't what he was doing.

So I'm left with either the explanation dahill gave, which doesn't seem to fit with his actions, or that he is lying about his motivations.

It's not great, and it's possible I'm misinterpreting something, but I don't think so. Plus, I already mentioned I don't like his move onto the VaVa wagon.

These are blatantly not the same, yet Shea later writes:

Pretty sure that Shanba just explained my position on Dahill better than I (aka the kid who has not slept in 50 or so hours and has completed 3 term papers in as many days) ever could have.

I don't care how tired you are; these two cases are fundamentally different. So why is he claiming that my case is the reason he voted?

So why am I not voting him, or at least mipe? Well, because of this:

mipe - PaltryExcuse,

Anon

,

VasudeVad

, Korts,

ksun482

, sorasagoof,

RichardGHP

,

inHimshallibe

(L-3)
dahill1-

Anon

,

Ksun482

, Thestatusquo, Mipe,

RichardGHP

,

VasudeVa

,

inHimshallibe

(L-4)

That wasn't what initially drove me off; in fact, I only noticed it now, but I did know that there was a certain amount of familiarity in the players I realised I was voting with and they weren't the players I thought were town; but what weighed more on my mind at the time was that the wagon grew suddenly and quickly. Anon votes (at the time the third on the wagon; I was the second) in post 316, VaVa in post 325, korts in 330, ksun in 335, soras in 336, dahill in 337, rickyghp in 350. In the space of two and a half pages, he goes from two votes to two votes away from lynch! That worries me, and makes me doubt my mipe/shea read, so I did a reread at that point and noticed ksun was also on the izzy wagon. What's more:

DizzyIzzyB13- Korts,

ksun482

, Shanba,

inHimshallibe

, dahill1, FeFiFoFum,

RichardGHP

(L-4)

All the players in red were on all three major wagons we've had today, mostly with either little reasoning or full on overblown PBPA "cases" with which you can justify just about anything.

Now you wanna see something else cool?

ksun482- Shanba, dahill1, The Fonz,

inHimshallibe

, iamausername,

Anon

,

RichardGHP

, DizzyIzzyB13,

VasudeVad

(L-2)

The two non-ksun triple wagon players are now on the ksun wagon! What's more, two of the bolded double wagon players are also on the wagon. In fact, these four players are four of the five who were bolded in my initial analysis. The only one who is missing? ksun himself. That's one hell of a voting bloc. I've never seen anything like it.

Unvote Vote: RichardGHP