mini 943- Greek Mythology! (And the winner is... ?)

[ooba]

~No.~

TT_TT
I-I don't understand then, how it would work...
EITHER:
Vas fakeclaimed, since my explanation was the only logical one i could think of
OR
The mod's being tricky. XD

"False. If you hammer Vas, and you are killed due to his superpower, the counter would go to you, the hammerer. But since you died, it would go to a random person right? "

If such an ability existed, the easiest non-random way to solve it is to give the counter to the second-last voter on the lynch.

[Iecerint]

Keep in mind that VV is an ESL player. Analyzing how he uses the word "apparently" may not be as fruitful as otherwise. But it's a valid point.

The only playerslot that 100% has to fakeclaim is Hades. Other Olympians, even "scummy" ones like Ares, could conceivably be town. If Hades has no mod-derived fakeclaim, it is plausible that his attempted fakeclaim might be CC-able. I don't expect that to be the case, but it was still worth it just in case.

False. If you hammer Vas, and you are killed due to his superpower, the counter would go to you, the hammerer. But since you died, it would go to a random person right?
@ MOD: Am I correct with this? ^

~No.~

It's sort of interesting that the Mod negatively confirmed this.

Mod, could we have clarification on mechanics given that a token-holding bomb is hammered? Where does the token go?

[Andrius]

Ok even if I was scum, I didn't need to wait till AlGm's claim to know townie win condition. It is right there on Page 1.

True. I just reread the rules, and its there.

But you've been silent on the entire flavor thing. Please post your thoughts on that.

Its not my main focus now. You can debate with him all day over his parenthetical statement, but I'm looking into why you want to hammer Vas if you'd die.
I'm not sure what you stand to gain by dying through VV's superpower, since you wouldn't get the counters anyway. But then what would happen to them?

@ Mod: Can you tell us what would happen in that instance, or no/you don't want to say? I understand the latter.

[Iecerint]

If such an ability existed, the easiest non-random way to solve it is to give the counter to the second-last voter on the lynch.

/wristslap

[Andrius]

Keep in mind that VV is an ESL player.

OH ZEUS. NOT THIS AGAIN. XDD

[ooba]

Ok. It's not debate about "parenthesized". A player made up flavor in his fake claim - flavor which you do (at least I dont) not have

Exihibit No.1:
He agreed that the word "seduce" was there in his role PM. He said he parenthesized madness to his super power but he agreed to this.

The seduce thing is there though.

Exihibit No.2:
Go look at your own role PM. And look at your

Power:

section. Isn't it generic? Does it contains any words like "wise", "strong", "arms", "fleeting" - anything which can even be compared to something like "seduce"? Its plain vanilla generic all the way.

Conclusion:
He got Aphrodite as a safe-claim-name. Unfortunately he decided to add flavor to his power.
He is not one of us.
Hence scum.

I don't really even care about the hammer bit right now. (Just make sure we get a consensus on most townie player to hammer). Does the above convince you in any way that VV should be lynch target today. If no, then why?

[LordChronos]

This game is designed so that normal powers can be stolen. Therefore the power I currently have can go to another player through various role actions.

Therefore (and from the fact that my own power is as generic as it gets) - all powers are flavor neutral!

Bolding from me. The bolded section is a logical fallacy (Fallacy of Composition). There is absolutely no reason to lynch a claimed cop off a logical fallacy.

@Almaster

Was there any flavor in your power?

a) I never said Powers cannot be stolen

This makes no sense. VV was saying his power would likely be stolen if powers can be stolen, so this statement is nonsensical. If he meant to say that he never said powers can be stolen, then it is a lie.

I don't like how ooba clearly states that the scum wincon doesn't involve tokens. Yes, it says on the first page that the scum wincon revolves around gaining powers. But it doesn't say that the scum don't need tokens for part of their wincon. This implies ooba is scum who definitively knows the scum wincon.

Vote: ooba

Anyone else up for an ooba lynch?

@ooba

Can you show without using a logical fallacy that every other player must have a power without flavor?

[DeathNote]

~I can not specify whom it would go to.~

[Iecerint]

Since this can has already been opened and is consequently unlikely to be useful later on, I don't see any harm in participating.

My

Power

section is similar to what ooba is describing.

[Iecerint]

@ LC, I think I posted the same thing as ooba a bit before him re: tokens. I don't think it's unreasonable to come to that conclusion as town.

The scummiest thing about ooba is the edit in the doublepost that Jack picked up on IMO. The kind of edit Jack described is the kind of edit I would make as scum.

[Jack]

This is absolutely silly. VV said "Role: cop, blah blah". He didn't say "Power: cop, blah blah".

Let's lynch Almaster so that he doesn't use the unstoppable kill on VV. And then we can look at ooba tomorrow. He is very likely scum as well.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: But if the Power flavor thing with Aphrodite pans out, VV beats that IMO.

[Andrius]

I don't really even care about the hammer bit right now. (Just make sure we get a consensus on most townie player to hammer). Does the above convince you in any way that VV should be lynch target today. If no, then why?

Because he's a claimed Cop, and you're pushing really hard to lynch him.

Anyone else up for an ooba lynch?

Yeah... but I like the AlmasterGM lynch. Especially with the claimed cop thing. :/

~I can not specify whom it would go to.~

Alright, thought so.

[ooba]

@ooba

Can you show without using a logical fallacy that every other player must have a power without flavor?

Tell me if Post 405 works. It doesn't conclusively prove it for every player (after all I had only my own PM to go on) but you can see if its true for your case.

Regarding the win condition, I guess scum wc could involve tokens but I think its highly unlikely.

[LordChronos]

@ooba

I could buy the power thing if two or three more people all said their powers didn't have flavor.

@Ice

Yeah, but the difference between your post about scum winning with tokens said we don't know, while ooba's decisively stated they don't need tokens.

[Andrius]

Ok, deadline is today at 10pm...
Which timezone? XD

[Iecerint]

^ Deadline is tomorrow at 10. I'm assuming CST since the Mod lists his location as Texas.

[Jack]

What it says in the power section is irrelevant. Vas never claimed that it said that in the power section.

[Flava Flave]

Unvote

Need to think.

Ooba seems to be right about Vas's claim, but I don't think I like the idea of lynching a claimed cop/supersaint Day 1...

[Jack]

I could see flava flave as scum.

[ooba]

Just thought I should put this up while I noticed it ..

Vas is seeming town now

VV seems town. <snip> VV seems to be putting more effort into the game than most, it's silly to accuse him of active lurking. Sitting quiet while waiting for other people to post is perfectly acceptable.

I don't like the VV wagon at all, let's lynch SV/SV's replacement

The real choice is between Almaster and VV. Almaster is the better choice by far.

VV is very townie.

Quit trying to pretend you didn't replace a player who was the #1 suspect.

You and VV are the only two likely lynches, based on what people have said.

I say Vas is townie because that's my gut feel. He went to a lot of effort to read peoples meta's when he really didn't have to. I get the feeling that was genuine effort and not faked effort to look good.

See till this point I guess its fine (even though the VV focus seems a bit on the higher side) - even I had a townie read on VV right until the claim and it is not scummy to support someone who you have a townie read on.

This is the point where AlGM claims Vig and unstoppable Vig. Now, you can check this by searching through the MD forums - but the correct play for a suspicious player claiming vig (when there is no other role such as cop\doc outed) is to have that player shoot himself in the night. If he doesn't then town lynches him on D2 - this way the town gains a D1 lynch. (I'm not here to argue this - just read earlier threads on this)

However, due to partly Jack's own actions, the town was in a sort of dichotomy between VV and AlGM. So when the correct play for AlGM's claim is to leave him to kill himself, Jack panics because town would immediately take the other player's case VV. Note posts here - remember, this is before VV's claim and any "cop" role was outed. I am sure a player of Jack's experience knows that the correct play for a vig is to kill himself.

Scum points for ooba. You surely don't think almaster will kill himself if he's scum. But you claimed to think he was scum before. Why not keep your vote on instead of asking for the suicide? So you can get Vas to claim?

The post after the claim is a justified response if a "cop" has been outed.

There is no way we should lynch VV.

Almaster is the lynch. I don't care that he's claimed vig and the "proper play with a claimed vig, yadda yadda". If you're the vig, you don't tunnel on one player because you have to figure out who you want to kill at night. Ideally you question as many people as you can. He hasn't played like a vig at all, he claimed scummy flavor, and he claimed a scummy ability.

If we let him live today he will most likely use his unstoppable kill to get through the doc protection and kill VV.

Trying to discredit the case without any points - just "silly".

This is absolutely silly. VV said "Role: cop, blah blah". He didn't say "Power: cop, blah blah".

Let's lynch Almaster so that he doesn't use the unstoppable kill on VV. And then we can look at ooba tomorrow. He is very likely scum as well.

Well, if it wasn't clear - I just made a post for Jack and VV being scum buddies.

IF we decide to lynch VV today (and that's a big if seeing the current traction) and when VV does turn up scum - Jack is my number one candidate for scumbuddy.

[Iecerint]

What it says in the power section is irrelevant. Vas never claimed that it said that in the power section.

Aphrodite, Goddess of Love.
Role: Cop. I can seduce anyone and reveal their alignment.
Super Power: Whoever hammers me dies(From madness, apparently. Coz I'm all pretty-like).

Gotta say, Jack, I'm a little thrown off by your certainty on VV. His syntax, namely, seems to imply that he was paraphrasing the

Power

information with the "Role:" bit.

[AlmasterGM]

+1000 to ooba.

My role has NO flavor in the ability. It merely describes the rules text of how it functions. Unless someone else can CC that there IS flavor, we can be very sure that VV is probably lying.

[Flava Flave]

Unvote, Vote Vas

I'm pretty sure Ooba made a really good catch.

[Jack]

What it says in the power section is irrelevant. Vas never claimed that it said that in the power section.

Aphrodite, Goddess of Love.
Role: Cop. I can seduce anyone and reveal their alignment.
Super Power: Whoever hammers me dies(From madness, apparently. Coz I'm all pretty-like).

Gotta say, Jack, I'm a little thrown off by your certainty on VV. His syntax, namely, seems to imply that he was paraphrasing the

Power

information with the "Role:" bit.

I don't think his syntax does imply that, and I think it was you who pointed out how silly ooba's "apparently" point was earlier.

It's aggravatingly obvious that this push on VV is scum driven.

I would be very surprised if there isn't a town cop in this setup. He hasn't been counterclaimed. I

would

be surprised if there's a town vig, because that's a terribly swingy role in this setup.