Mini 932: Let's all be friends (Over)

[Hoopla]

Hoopla, what was your night action last night?

I stayed home, hoping Budja would investigate me so I could prove/disprove his claim.

[don_johnson]

wings made a graph. prolly town. also, please stop insulting me. i had personal issues which pulled my attention from this game. my reasoning is sound. i think cue is the second scum. and yes, i believe there are only two. 3:1:8 is unbalanced when 1 is nk immune.

[don_johnson]

I stayed home, hoping Budja would investigate me so I could prove/disprove his claim.

why would anyone but ds investigate you? isn't your ability limited to finding the sk? oh. that's right. you're lieing scum.

[Hoopla]

I stayed home, hoping Budja would investigate me so I could prove/disprove his claim.

why would anyone but ds investigate you? isn't your ability limited to finding the sk? oh. that's right. you're lieing scum.

You have no idea what you're saying - Sean's investigation on me

would

come up 'has a gun'! This is largely the reason why I believed his claim in the first place, because gunsmith set-ups usually have 1-2 town gun roles to dillute the results of a gunsmith.

Budja's role sees if people stay home or not. He wouldn't know what I would do, now that I have no SK to catch. That's why I would have been a good investigation target, because if he's truthful, he could have proved his role by confirming if I went somewhere or not.

[don_johnson]

You have no idea what you're saying - Sean's investigation on me

would

come up 'has a gun'!

which is exactly why your claim sounds "convenient".

This is largely the reason why I believed his claim in the first place, because gunsmith set-ups usually have 1-2 town gun roles to dillute the results of a gunsmith.

okay.

Budja's role sees if people stay home or not. He wouldn't know what I would do, now that I have no SK to catch. That's why I would have been a good investigation target, because if he's truthful, he could have proved his role by confirming if I went somewhere or not.

then you should have told him to watch you. do you believe town has a gunsmith, an fbi agent, and a motion detector?

[Budja]

Sean's investigation on me would come up 'has a gun'!

OK, that shoots my idea to pieces.

Don is sounding a lot more sane than I thought.

I'm am more confident that scum are in my three vote choices, with Sotty as a outside chance.

[Hoopla]

Budja's role sees if people stay home or not. He wouldn't know what I would do, now that I have no SK to catch. That's why I would have been a good investigation target, because if he's truthful, he could have proved his role by confirming if I went somewhere or not.

then you should have told him to watch you. do you believe town has a gunsmith, an fbi agent, and a motion detector?

But I didn't know I would have nothing to search for until cruelty flipped SK, which is when the town cannot speak.

It's plausible in a 3:1:8, but the simplest scenario in my mind is that Budja is a scum powerrole, which is either the motion detector or something else. I think I've covered this before...

[Sotty7]

WingsOWisdom, Cuetlachtli are the un-investigated, non-PR's. There is a possibility that DS was redirected so Sotty is less cleared than Don.

Why is there a possibility he was redirected? Why wouldn't he have been redirected on night one as well? He had claimed on day one don't forget. Do. Not. Like.

I'm not lynching Hoop or Snow white today. I think we should be lynching Budja. I could also be down for a no lynch.

[Sotty7]

I should say that WoW outside-chance-hoop-is-scum theory surrounding the attempted SK kill is a good one though. I will tip my hat to Hoop if that is actually what she pulled here. For now she is in my town category for part claim part actions in thread.

Snow is all but confirmed to me. Sean could be lying but I'm not feeling it.

I will have to re-read WoW and co to decide on them, but I feel Town Don in my gut if that helps. Probably doesn't.

[Budja]

WingsOWisdom, Cuetlachtli are the un-investigated, non-PR's. There is a possibility that DS was redirected so Sotty is less cleared than Don.

Why is there a possibility he was redirected? Why wouldn't he have been redirected on night one as well? He had claimed on day one don't forget. Do. Not. Like.

Have to admit I forgot that. I fell into the assumption we all claimed day 2 for some reason.

[julienvonwolfe]

Vote Count No. 22

Hoopla (1) - don_johnson
WingsOWisdom (1) - Budja

Not voting: WingsOWisdom, Snow White, Cuetlachtli, Sotty7, Hoopla, DisgruntledSean

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

[WingsOWisdom]

Right now, I'm leaning towards a Budja lynch today.

WingsOWisdom, Cuetlachtli are the un-investigated, non-PR's.

You're not counting Cuetlachtli as investigated?

No offense, but it seems like there's a lot that Budja has forgot/missed recently:
1) Investigating Cuetlachtli (heck, Budja was the one who investigated Cuetlachtli)
2) DisgruntledSean's N2 results
3) That Hoopla as an FBI agent would have a gun, thus DisgruntledSean won't be able to tell if she's telling the truth or not
4) What day DisgruntledSean claimed

[Cuetlachtli]

I kinda feel like the two hypo-scum teams I am imagining right now, Budja-WoW and Hoopla-DJ-(Sotty), are doing some distancing. Budja and WoW have openly said that they are down to lynch the other. DJ has brought up points against Hoopla that should have been issues yesterday, yet he did not question Hoopla at all yesterday and was even one of the first dudes to support Hoopla's plan. Also, the Hoopla-Sotty love affair maintains the course it has been following since RVS.

I think the biggest crux in the Hoopla-DJ-Sotty hypo-scum team is the fact that Cruelty was actually the SK! How could Hoopla possibly know that there was a SK in the game?

The only 2 possibilities I can see a Hypo-Scum Hoopla figuring out that Cruelty is a SK are....

1. Hoopla is a mafia role cop and investigated Cruelty on N1

2. Hoopla and the other scum dubiously opted to kill Cruelty instead of SW and a bullet hit Cruelty's vest. The Riddick kill and Cruelty's subsequent VT claim told veteran Hoopla that Cruelty was probably a SK and she exploited this situation accordingly.

I think 1 is possible and 2 is idiotic. The is no logical reason why the scum would target Cruelty over a PR.

I am going to have to reread Day 1 and see if I can find any soft tells that Hoopla is a FBI agent. o_O

[Budja]

Feh Cue is vanilla but not cleared. I was only really looking at DS's investigations.

@Cue, Possibility 3 is the scum attempted to kill someone else who was protected and cruelty succeeded in his kill.
---

Actually, the more I think this through, the more I like Hoopla as scum.

unvote, vote Hoopla

.

I don't think there are three scum if Hoopla is scum, so I am not too worried about LyLo possibities ATM.

[Hoopla]

Don't mind me, just destroying your feeble logic here;

@Cue, Possibility 3 is the scum attempted to kill someone else who was protected and cruelty succeeded in his kill.

How about you tell me who was protected N1? Actually, I'll do it for you. SpyreX protected Snow who is immune to protection, and Snow protected Sean - something she claimed to do before D1 ended.

Actually, the more I think this through, the more I like Hoopla as scum.

unvote, vote Hoopla

.

I don't think there are three scum if Hoopla is scum, so I am not too worried about LyLo possibities ATM.

That is such bad logic. If you think I am scum, but with one other person, the inverse of this means if I am not scum, you think there is a 3 person scumteam. Why would you try and go for the 2-player team and if you're wrong lose, rather than go for the 3 player team and if you're wrong get another shot. Of course, this is baseless assumption you are putting forth here, so I don't trust however you came to this conclusion in the first place, but I thought I should point out it's flaws.

1. Hoopla is a mafia role cop and investigated Cruelty on N1

2. Hoopla and the other scum dubiously opted to kill Cruelty instead of SW and a bullet hit Cruelty's vest. The Riddick kill and Cruelty's subsequent VT claim told veteran Hoopla that Cruelty was probably a SK and she exploited this situation accordingly.

For anyone else that wants to vote me, they need to provide rational logic why I could be scum. These two questions I have quoted need to be answered, but I'll also provide some more reasons why I'm not scum.

Re: Cue's point #1 - Don't you think it would be weird to have a role-cop in a set-up with Budja's role, that does almost the exact same thing?

Also, you need to justify having a nightkill-immune

and

investigation-immune SK in a set-up. SK's very rarely have guns, so the gunsmith couldn't have found him. Someone tell me why such a powerful SK would be in a Mini Normal?

I also want answers to the cruelty-kill N1 thing - why would hypo-scum me want to kill cruelty over protown players like Snow, Spyre, Riddick etc?

[Cuetlachtli]

@Cue, Possibility 3 is the scum attempted to kill someone else who was protected and cruelty succeeded in his kill.

This point is moot since Spy attempted to save SW.

[don_johnson]

problem: when hoop had the chance to breadcrumb, she failed.

If you want to play the balance game, here is a frequency of the commonly used 12 player closed set-ups. As it's likely we have two doctors, it's hard to know if we have another killing faction in the game before a night happens with two kills, but I give it better than even odds we're playing in a 3:9 set-up. The thing that makes me pause is the gunsmith role, which could be used in conjunction with an SK to give it investigation immunity - but that seems like a longshot.

hoop goes on to mention the role of "priest" three times over the next few pages as a possible "counter" to gunsmith. i don't get the feeling that this post is wanton misdirection to protect herself. hoop came up with her fbi agent claim on the fly towards the end of the day, realizing it could give her a chance to coast to lylo. also, as scum she would be aware of their power role(s) and thus be able to successfully manipulate night actions in any of the scenarios she suggested. other than this post(382), hoop's play fits, but she is an experienced player and i believe she is scum.

[Sotty7]

Also, the Hoopla-Sotty love affair maintains the course it has been following since RVS.

What can I say.... I have been crushing on Hoop ever since she day vig'ed me on page two of another game. Well that and she claimed FBI agent and we lynched an SK makes me think that she was, oh I don't know, actually telling the truth.

The only 2 possibilities I can see a Hypo-Scum Hoopla figuring out that Cruelty is a SK are.... 

1. Hoopla is a mafia role cop and investigated Cruelty on N1 

2. Hoopla and the other scum dubiously opted to kill Cruelty instead of SW and a bullet hit Cruelty's vest. The Riddick kill and Cruelty's subsequent VT claim told veteran Hoopla that Cruelty was probably a SK and she exploited this situation accordingly. 

I think 1 is possible and 2 is idiotic. The is no logical reason why the scum would target Cruelty over a PR. 

You have a point about the PR thing, but does this mean you are finally dropping this theory? Because if anything Budja works better in question one than Hoop.

Don, what do you think about Budja?

[Cuetlachtli]

Does this mean you are finally dropping this theory?

Not quite. There is one other possibility that I thought of today.

Hoopla is mafia role cop and investigated Cruelty. Then, Hoopla and her cronies decided to get cute and kill Riddick instead of SW in order to frame her. Cruelty either failed by NKing or shot Riddick too. Since Hoopla knows that Cruelty is a SK, she fake claims FBI agent and leads a lynch on Cruelty in order to gain credibility.

Points that strengthen this theory:

1. Hypo-Scum buddy DJ voted SW at the beginning of Day 2, but quickly unvoted when he didn't see a lynch wagon materialize.

2. Hoopla deliberately waited until everyone else claimed before she did. Thus she was able to see the all of the results and claims of the other players and adjust her own fake claim accordingly. She tailored her results so that the town was forced to policy lynch either WoW or Cruelty. She then camped her vote on Cruelty the entire day and only mentioned WoW once, even though the rest of the town considered a WoW lynch.

3. Hypo-Scum buddies Sotty and DJ also camped their votes on Cruelty.

[Cuetlachtli]

Hey I have a question for everybody:

Is it a scum tell, null tell, or idiot tell for a player to NOT read the game thread?

Thx in advance!

[Budja]

idiot/lazy tell if you are referring to my skimming .

@Hoopla,
1. missed snow's night action
2. But for three scum to exist, an investigation must be wrong. Also, I can't think of a three-scum combo of our vanillas. Also, I need to think before posting.

[don_johnson]

sotty: i'm pretty convinced one of hoop/budja is scum. post 382(i think), the one i quoted above just doesn't jive with hoops current stance. seriously, go back and read the whole post. its not at all far fetched to think that scum hoop figured out there's a likely sk and cherrypicked an obscure claim that would conveniently explain why she has a gun and why she's been moving at night. scum doesn't need a rolecop to figure out theres another killer in a game. why would there be a gunsmith in the game

and

an fbi agent? so the sk is nk immune

and

immune to the gunsmith, but not to the fbi agent? please. its horseshit and hoop should be lynched today. there was no indication in thread that would lead me to believe that DS wouldn't get a "has a gun" result from cruelty. generally, weapons are dictated with flavor. i.e. riddick was "stabbed" or "shot". not "killed". i think cue might be a good candidate for scum #2. see how hes now trying to tie you and i to hoop? spyrex is good, but he's not god. let's start with hoop and see where it gets us. no way theres 3 scum

and

an sk, so it should be perfectly safe to lynch.

[don_johnson]

cue: null. i've done it as both alignments. i assume others would do it that way as well. there can be mitigating circumstances, however. but unfortunately, many players out there do it for fun.

[don_johnson]

also, has it occurred to anyone that putting an fbi agent in a mini normal with a motion detector and a gunsmith makes the game virtually unwinnable for an sk? most common sk fakeclaim is vig. simple

existence

of an fbi agent shoots that to hell. no. fbi agent seems much more like a large game role than a mini. especially if we have a gunsmith. hoop's game is falling apart here. seriously. think about it. lynching her now is the same as lynching a vanilla anyway as her power is supposedly useless.

[Cuetlachtli]

Ok DJ, I understand that you believe Hoopla to be scum today.

My question:

Why the hell did you believe her yesterday?