NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[Unsight]

Now a question for you: What is your opinion on Parama/Leafsnail? Both or choosing just one of them will do.

Parama came at you pretty hard right out of the gate but oddly without mentioning the two scummiest things about you (see my ISO). Leafsnail knocked the wind out of his sails and then sunk his battleship. Pretty sure Parama didn't think his arguments through. Kind of scummy but also typical for Parama. The thought also crossed my mind that he's busing and jumped on your wagon first to look pro-town in a wagon analysis down the road but, again, this is Parama so it's iffy.

Leafsnail is an easier read. He hit Parama like a truck, put it in reverse, and did it again. I'd like to think he didn't try the same to me because I'm voting you for non-stupid reasons but I think Parama was just an easier target all-around. You flip scum and it very much looks like chainsawing. Also, not liking the daniel vote at all. If the mason group is telling the truth then we'll know pretty fast. I somehow doubt a mafia team and a werewolf team would let them all live to end game (that would be cool though). I really can't think of a pro-town reason for voting any member of this self-proclaimed mason team.

[Unsight]

I explained because my masonmates were being retarded. It seemed required to claim.

Also, I just found out from the mod that it's possible that my masonmates might be werewolves.

Great. So much for confirmed town.

Explain this.

The whole point of "Mason" and not "Neighbor" is the whole confirmed town part.

Request clarification from mod?

[Seraphim]

I requested clarification. My PM states that my "masons" are not Mafia but they might be werewolves. That's all there is to it.

[foilist13]

Ok, right now Daniel is bothering me a lot with his play, but I'm not going to get too into him because of this mason mass claim. That in itself bothers me too, but I don't have any reason to disbelieve it so far.

I have somewhat of an inside source and I can tell you that lynchmepls is in the mafia but he's not werewolf. And no I don't know this cause I'm scum.

What? Ok, so you have role information presumably?

Based on this you know the following information:

1) There are in fact two scum factions. The werewolves and the mafia. This isn't too farfetched as this is Mafia vs. Werewolves.
2) lynchmepls is mafia.
3) lynchmepls is not a werewolf, but one could be both.

Now how do you know all this?

You have an inside source. This doesn't imply that it was simply stated in your role pm. Ok, possibilities.

1) You are a cop who can differentiate between mafia and werewolves, and can investigate N0.
2) You are a cop who can differentiate between mafia and werewolves and can investigate during the day.
3) You have a role relationship with lynchmepls, i.e. lovers.
4) You are a werewolf and able to detect mafia. (This is assuming you mean scum as part of that scum team, and therefore not mafia)
5) You're a lying scumbag.
6) Something I didn't think of.

So basically this amounts to significant scumhunting ability, where you chose to out your results, but not your role. Why would you do that? Usually when one accuses someone based on role information they claim to back up their accusation. I don't think I've EVER seen people believe someone based on an accusation like that.

Day cops and N0 cops are very rare (I know I've never played with one), so for the moment I'm going to assume you're not one of those.
I don't think you would out your lover without claiming, and I don't think you would sacrifice yourself right away anyway.
That leaves werewolf and lying scumbag. (or something I didn't think of, but for the moment that's not a useful possibility.)
I find it very unlikely that the mafia would be masons, since the mod said they could be werewolves, but didn't say anything about traditional scum. (this is based on Seraphim's comment that he just found out they could be werewolves. He didn't mention mafia.)
That leaves the final possibility of you being a werewolf mason with a rolehunting ability, or something I didn't think of.

Since I'm not in the habit of withholding votes for fear of not having thought of something,

Vote:vezopiraka

[nhammen]

I explained because my masonmates were being retarded. It seemed required to claim.

Also, I just found out from the mod that it's possible that my masonmates might be werewolves.

Great. So much for confirmed town.

Explain this.

The whole point of "Mason" and not "Neighbor" is the whole confirmed town part.

Request clarification from mod?

Somewhere in the Open Setup thread is an open setup that includes two scum groups: Mafia and Werewolves, as well as two other groups: Masons and Monks. Masons are confirmed non-Mafia, but could be Werewolves. Monks are confirmed non-Werewolf, but could be Mafia. I am assuming, from what vezo and Seraph have said, that the situation here is similar.

[Vi]

Dr. Robotnik is probscum.

The Goat is coming pretty close to probscum.

I support foilist's first post, but I want to see vezo dig his own grave further before making a decision.

Unvote: SGRaaize
Vote: Dr. Robotnik

(L-12)

@Chronopie: Better than having the Masons fight needlessly and make themselves impossible to not lynch even after claiming, no?

[Seraphim]

Yeah. It was the only move I could possibly make after they became convinced to take me down with them. My God.

Now you know why I thought your case was weaksauce, Vi. But now I'm not so sure. The play I have just witnessed is pretty terrible. If any of them is scum, it's Vezo, I'm fairly sure Daniel is town.

[Vi]

Now you know why I thought your case was weaksauce, Vi. But now I'm not so sure. The play I have just witnessed is pretty terrible. If any of them is scum, it's Vezo, I'm fairly sure Daniel is town.

Fairly sure I agree with you on that one.

[LimMePls]

Yeah. It was the only move I could possibly make after they became convinced to take me down with them. My God.

Now you know why I thought your case was weaksauce, Vi. But now I'm not so sure. The play I have just witnessed is pretty terrible. If any of them is scum, it's Vezo, I'm fairly sure Daniel is town.

Based on current information, as much as it pains me to say it, vezo is definitely not scum. And much like Forrest Gump "That's about all I got to say about that".

[askbob]

and that's AFTER askbob had his little spat about masons claiming). Wouldn't be surprised in the least to see scum in there.

Unvote.

That's my mistake obviously. Now I dunno who the heck to vote. let me finish reading this

[askbob]

Unvote

forgot to bold

Question: what does FoS mean? (I'm new to this forum)

[Seraphim]

Finger of Suspicion.

[Seraphim]

Also, I definitely want to talk to my fellow masons tonight and find out what's what. I certainly don't want any of them lynched today.

[askbob]

If any of them is scum, it's Vezo, I'm fairly sure Daniel is town.

I completely agree but since there's a 66% chance he could be town based on probability I don't want to take that chance. I don't think its worth it.

[askbob]

Whats the case with Dr. Robotnik. I somehow missed that while reading. What page?

[Seraphim]

BTW, that number is skewed. Simply because there might be werewolves in the mason group doesn't mean there are werewolves.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm going to mention my other suspects at the moment:

Midnight's Sorrow:

He's been completely useless throughout the game. There is no excuse for this, especially since he's been relatively active and productive in Kingdom of Loathing. Remember his BS excuse for not contributing? Yeah, that needs to go.

Whats the case with Dr. Robotnik. I somehow missed that while reading. What page?

Just read the case below or ISO him and my discussion with him.

Dr. Robotnik:

Also guilty of being useless throughtout the game. He has only made THREE posts in the game. One was to confirm, one was to place a vote on me, and another was an attempt to unvote me, but fails due to him not bolding his vote. I'd also like to add that he fails to answer one of my question on what post he found suspicious, which gives him a little more shades of scumminess then Midnight's Sorrow.

daniel94581:

I agree with the case on him. He's been almost useless throughout the entire game. I understand he might be new to the game, but this does not excuse his rolefishing, hard as hell to read posts, very poor responses, and giving a bad reason for voting someone (Askbob is doing okay so far). He also makes responses to long quote with half-hearted effort put into it (ISO: 13 was an epic fail of a quote, it didn't even work).

vezopiraka

: Not a fan of him either. I agree with everyone that the too premature asking to roleclaim was suspicious. I also agree that up until then, vezopiraka wasn't really providing much much contents. However, what strikes me is that vezopiraka was also guilty of performing an OMGUS vote on Vi on #200. Also, look at this post:

I have somewhat of an inside source and I can tell you that lynchmepls is in the mafia but he's not werewolf.

And no I don't know this cause I'm scum.

unvote:vi
vote:LynchMePls

That bolded point was so scummy, it completely ruins the entire post. He outright said he was scum. Seraphim, tell me you were not kidding in your Mason claim.

Also, this is Day 1. There has been no Night 0. How do you know who's a Mafioso member and who's a Werewolf?

Basically, I'm listing my suspects in these orders:

5th: Midnight's Sorrow
4th: Dr. Robotnik
3rd: daniel94581
2nd: Parama
1st: Vezopiraka

My case against Parama still stands as it is and I am no less suspcious of him, but Vezopiraka has been almost useless and his scum tells is enough to get me to change my vote. At least Parama is finally starting to get serious. With that said:

Unvote: Parama
Vote: Vezopiraka
HoS: Parama
HoS: daniel94581
FoS: Dr. Robotnik
FoS: Midnight's Sorrow

Other thoughts:
I don't see why LynchMePls is suspicious. He has clearly been putting forth an effort toward the game, unlike Vezopiraka, daniel94581, Dr. Robotnik, and Midnight's Sorrow. Sure I didn't like his contradiction, but he has a null read from me at this point.

I am not buying Seraphim claim at all. IMO, it's completely useless to claim now as I'd rather wait until you're in danger of a lynch. I especially did not like the fact he claimed for vezopiraka and daniel94581, he even said they might be werewolves. For God's sake I hope either vezopiraka or daniel94581 are werewolves, they truly have been acting scummy.

Does anyone find it weird that Vi tends to jump around vote a lot, especially when we're deep into a serious game that won't end until July 4th, 2010? He's doing it very quickly. First a vote on Vezopiraka, then LynchMePls, then SGRaaize, and finally Dr. Robotnik. On the last one, all he mentioned about Dr. Robotnik is that he's probably scum. I agree with Dr. Robotnik being scummy, but he didn't explain why.

[askbob]

BTW, that number is skewed. Simply because there might be werewolves in the mason group doesn't mean there are werewolves.

Correct so the percentage is even higher. So its something to keep in mind that there may be, so at the end of the game we don't just assume anyone who was in the masons was automatically town. But still for the purpose of here and now, no one should be voting for the masons.

[askbob]

2 masons are in my top three suspicion list, I am an idiot

yes

[askbob]

Vote Dr. Robotnik

From what SSBF said he's been inactive. This is just to encourage him to post more.

[pman5595]

either daniel is noobmason and seriphim was forced to out the group OR daniel is noobscum and seriphim is clever scum faking mason group. Not leaning either way based on in game tells but the former seems more likely as a theoretical option. The claim of inside info that LMP is scum is interesting. The best option in my opinion is to have both claim fully and lynch one, depending on the claims. Dr Robot is still scummiest due to lurking and quickwagoning. Parama is town. SSBF is town. Too many people in this game. Grows too quickly. I hate day 1. Carry on.

[Vi]

Does anyone find it weird that Vi tends to jump around vote a lot, especially when we're deep into a serious game that won't end until July 4th, 2010? He's doing it very quickly. First a vote on Vezopiraka, then LynchMePls, then SGRaaize, and finally Dr. Robotnik. On the last one, all he mentioned about Dr. Robotnik is that he's probably scum. I agree with Dr. Robotnik being scummy, but he didn't explain why.

I change my vote when I want to.

Dr. Robotnik has managed to be on the popular-at-the-time SSBF wagon, but hasn't actually said anything at all. I approve of this wagon.

In addition, out of the material wagon of {Chronopie, Parama, Unsight, Dr. Robotnik} on SSBF I think he's the one most likely to be scum. askbob and SGRaaize were also against SSBF but never voted for him, hence the SGR vote earlier.

FWIW, I have Town reads on the entire Parama wagon {Seraphim, Lowell, SSBF, LMP}. So etc.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Vi: Fair enough explaination.

[Midnight's Sorrow]

As a matter of fact, acting way too aggressively can be dangerous. Look at the Horrordude0215 vs. Ythan argument near the end of Day 1 in Mafia 110: Hell in Michagan. Horrordude was getting close to lynch. He and Ythan got into a big argument. Horrordude eventually resorted to petty insults against him. Not only did it got on a few people nerve and the mod mad, Horrordude was quickly lynched because of it. He was a Vanilla Townsperson.

This kinda of thing always makes me facepalm. I hate it when people put emotion over logic in these games. This is a game of logic, I don't see why people feel the need to dampen that with their emotions

Also SSBF, not to

dampen

what seems like a good case against me. Kingdom of Loathing is an ongoing game that should not be talked about. Please refrain from doing so please.~

And I'm not posting here much because I'm finding it hard to find anything with in the HUGE WALLS OF TEXTS that spring up every other post. Seriously people, can you not say what you want to say in as few words as possible??? I am taking the time to read through this though atm. So maybe I can take my RVFSRS.~

[Dry-fit]

@Vi It's cause I'm pretty much a complete noob at forum mafia. I'm still learning, as my post answering your questions stated. I'm perfectly willing to admit I'm a noob. I am most definitely not scum though.

LMP clings to the newbie card for dear life!

Does anyone find it weird that Vi tends to jump around vote a lot, especially when we're deep into a serious game that won't end until July 4th, 2010?

Actually, yes.