NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[SerialClergyman]

This is exactly why nhammen's scum. The defence is 'But he WAS rolefishing' rather than 'But he is likely to be scum'. I can't tell you how many times scum are the first to overreact to anything that looks like rolefishing (devotress in PYP1, Percy and Baltar in Amished mafia, roflcopter and Yossarian in /inv 4 - these are all in my wiki if you want to check). It's because if they're ever questioned about their suspicions, they don't have to make a case about that person being scum, or show their suspicions - they just need to say 'ROLEFISHING IS BAD, THAT POST IS ROLEFISHING'.

I don't think that nhammen actually believes foilest and chrono are scum because they are rolefishing. Look at his posts - he's telling them to STOP rolefishing, rather than telling the town that he believes he's caught scum.

AND it comes after a suspiciously long absence without him saying much.

[nhammen]

2 days?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@nhammen: Two days is enough to get you prodded. Read the rules.

[Unsight]

This is exactly why nhammen's scum. The defence is 'But he WAS rolefishing' rather than 'But he is likely to be scum'. I can't tell you how many times scum are the first to overreact to anything that looks like rolefishing (devotress in PYP1, Percy and Baltar in Amished mafia, roflcopter and Yossarian in /inv 4 - these are all in my wiki if you want to check). It's because if they're ever questioned about their suspicions, they don't have to make a case about that person being scum, or show their suspicions - they just need to say 'ROLEFISHING IS BAD, THAT POST IS ROLEFISHING'.

I don't think that nhammen actually believes foilest and chrono are scum because they are rolefishing.

Look at his posts - he's telling them to STOP rolefishing, rather than telling the town that he believes he's caught scum.

AND it comes after a suspiciously long absence without him saying much.

That's smarter than Parama's entire ISO.

The speed at which C-Pie jumped on the wagon is worrisome though so I'll keep my vote where it is.

[nhammen]

SSBF: But less isn't

[Chronopie]

The fact that I'm online is worrisome? and agree with the points I would have made myself, had I been on earlier.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Some thoughts in the game: I'm not liking how Seraphim is suddenly disappearing from the thread after being active beforehand. He has not posted in this thread since Tuesday March 18, 2010 at 9:52 PM Central Times. Strangely enough, he was very active earlier. On top of that, looking at his profile, he posts 4.35 per day, as of now. This brings him down to a neutral-scummy read.

I will bring down an

FoS: nhammen

for now. Your case on foilist is terrible. He has been in some form productive in the game and I agree with Parama, he is not rolefishing. Especially making your case on folist bad is that you failed to explain why he was rolefishing.

You gave minimal explaintion on most of your responses from 328 to 382. With the exception of Chronopie's rolefishing (Which I agree with), I am nott buying any of your responses. Explain them in more detail to get me to see what you're saying.

I'm noticing Parama improving recently. He's actually starting to scum hunt and is focusing on other players. My suspicion of him still remains, but if he keeps improving, then I may take him off my scum list.

Above all else, as much as it pains me to say it, vezo is not scum. Any lynch of Vezo is a guaranteed mislynch.

How do you know Vezopiraka is not scum? Just because Seraphim is claiming him as a mason doesn't mean we know if he's scum or not. Sure if Seraphim is right about his claim that it does reduce the chance of him being scum, but Vezopiraka has been acting very scummy, I'm sorry, but as long as he continues to not contribute to the game and commit scum tells of his magnitude, I am going to keep my vote on him.

But along those lines, as mentioned before I disagree with LMP - vezo is the more likely scum between the two VIsons, and I'm curious as to why people are pushing or half-pushing daniel more.

I agree with you. Vezopiraka has been acting more scummy then daniel has been.

ISOing daniel, he just seems to not care about the game much. Vezopiraka has been throwing scum tells left and right throughout the entire game. Even for someone new to Mafiascum, this is not an excuse for what he's been doing. But it can't even be used as an excuse because as other have pointed he, he is experienced at Mafia.

@askbob 364: Please scumhunt instead of commenting on the Mason stuff. And for your info, Seraph's play was the right play.

I saw a little scum hunting going on in that post. Also, how is Seraphim's play was right? He deserted this thread for two days already shortly after his mason claim. How can you say that's the right play?

You don't see any rolefishing in this post? It's all just rhetoric to you?

I'm not seeing any rolefishing in that post. It felt like genuine scum hunting to me.

Current scum ranking:
6th: LynchMePls (Just barely, thought)
5th: nhammen
4th: Parama
3rd: Dr. Robotnik
2nd: daniel94581
1st: Vezopiraka

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF: But less isn't

Even if you do avoid prods, people still call you out if you're inactive compared to other people. You were doing the same thing that Seraphim is doing right now.

[nhammen]

Seriously? Nobody else sees the rolefishing? OK. I'll show where I see it, and you all can judge. One moment...

[nhammen]

foilists 328 was in response to a post of vezo's which responded to this post of foilist's:

I have somewhat of an inside source and I can tell you that lynchmepls is in the mafia but he's not werewolf. And no I don't know this cause I'm scum.

What? Ok, so you have role information presumably?

Based on this you know the following information:

1) There are in fact two scum factions. The werewolves and the mafia. This isn't too farfetched as this is Mafia vs. Werewolves.
2) lynchmepls is mafia.
3) lynchmepls is not a werewolf, but one could be both.

Now how do you know all this?

You have an inside source. This doesn't imply that it was simply stated in your role pm. Ok, possibilities.

1) You are a cop who can differentiate between mafia and werewolves, and can investigate N0.
2) You are a cop who can differentiate between mafia and werewolves and can investigate during the day.
3) You have a role relationship with lynchmepls, i.e. lovers.
4) You are a werewolf and able to detect mafia. (This is assuming you mean scum as part of that scum team, and therefore not mafia)
5) You're a lying scumbag.
6) Something I didn't think of.

So basically this amounts to significant scumhunting ability, where you chose to out your results, but not your role. Why would you do that? Usually when one accuses someone based on role information they claim to back up their accusation. I don't think I've EVER seen people believe someone based on an accusation like that.

Massive rolefishing here. But I had not mentioned it in my post, because that was before my last post... I think.

Here is post 328:

I will take the 6)answer: Something you didn't talk about.

Seraphim claimed for whatever stupid reason he had.
I'll Unvote
Vote daniel94581

1) Saying it's something I didn't think of isn't good enough.

You have to explain what that is

, because I'm pretty sure I exhausted the possibilities.

2)

If you do have some kind of magic role, why don't your mason mates know about it?

The only reason I can think of is because you are a werewolf.

3) Normally I would be extremely annoyed at you for voting without an explanation. You however took it to the next level and not only didn't explain your vote, you voted for your mason mate! You're supposed to KNOW their alignment. If they could be werewolves, then yes he COULD be scum, but that isn't anything close to a reason to vote for him. The probability of him being scum is actually lower for him than your average player.

Reasons. Now.

As you can see, vezo refused to give any more info. Good. And foil's response has 2 questions DIRECTLY related to his role. I don't see how this isn't rolefishing.

@daniel: Your last post looked really bad. Why did you made a bigger size and bold? And you know how I got that information.

Ok, so Daniel knows about vezopiraka's magic role giving him info. That means that vezopiraka has either outed it to the masons, or to the werewolves and he and Daniel are both werewolves. The second option is unlikely.

@Seraphim:

Did you know about vezopiraka's role? If so, does it justify his knowledge that lynchmepls is scum? If so, why aren't you voting lynchmepls and trying to get him lynched?

@Daniel: Did you actually know how he had this information? If you did, why did you call him out about it? If you did, why aren't you voting lynchmepls and trying to get him lynched?

No I'm not some kind of cop. Also I'm not sure but at least of daniel or seraphim should be a werewolf.

To me your making this up but if anyone is it must be seraphim because I'm not.

Ok so you're not a cop.

You do however have the following information.

1) lynchmepls is mafia.
2) either Daniel or Seraphim is a werewolf.

I will take the 6)answer: Something you didn't talk about.

Seraphim claimed for whatever stupid reason he had.
I'll Unvote
Vote daniel94581

Ok, so you are none of the possibilities I mentioned. However, you are so confident in your information you are voting your mason mate on what is presumably a 50-50% chance, unless you have MORE information we don't know about.

So you are sure lynchmepls is scum, yet you feel strong enough about Daniel being a werewolf that you are voting him. Why?

And where are you getting your information? I've never seen someone make this many statements of role info without claiming to back it up. I have absolutely no reason to believe anything you've told me, and you're lack of meaningful response isn't helping.

I have no intention of changing my vote on you anytime soon.

Yeah, definitely no rolefishing here.[/sarcasm]

The way he is pushing this rolefishing just strikes me as scummy, while chrono's doesn't. I've explained as best I can.

[nhammen]

Oh yeah, and that red was my addition, to show to those who can't see it, where the rolefishing is.

[Parama]

Second one, I already responded to.

First one, a list of possibilities that are equally likely =/= rolefishinh

Third quote A: prodding for info, not necessarily role related
Third quote B: Not rolefishing at all

[nhammen]

a list of possibilities that are equally likely and ASKING WHICH ONE IS CORRECT IS!

Holy crap you are going to great lengths to defend this! Maybe I need to change my read of you...

[SerialClergyman]

Holy crap you are going to great lengths to defend this! Maybe I need to change my read of you...

Lol! Epic threat..

My vote totally stays.

(Note he's still saying IT WAS FISHING not THEY ARE SCUM)

[SerialClergyman]

Ooh, ooh, nhammen and c-pie are so partners. Check out the bolded.

The way he is pushing this rolefishing just strikes me as scummy,

while chrono's doesn't.

I've explained as best I can.

@Chrono 379: Not you too! DO NOT ROLEFISH!

@Chrono 382: STOP ROLEFISHING

FOS: Chrono

[Parama]

^this is precisely my point^

[Seraphim]

Unvote
Vote: nhammen

lol, this is too easy. Nice catch, Parama. I retract what I said earlier about you being an idiot. 8D I hope we can be buddies now.

[Vi]

Catching up, and it seems like you had fun without me

I like how nhammen is continuing to validate SerialClergyman's point against him (lynch rolefishers, not scum). It's like the experienced players aren't even in this game~
So foilist was speculating on roles. All of those roles were so improbable that it wasn't remotely helpful to bring them up or consider them, let alone use them to mislead. If that's the basis for your vote over everyone else (not like you've mentioned many suspicions~), well, at least you're not fourth on the wagon like your first two votes (in your first two posts)~

I have no qualms with an nhammen wagon. The vast majority of his play up until he came under fire was in throwaway one-line responses to random posts. His attempt to defend "but foilist WAS rolefishing! and Chronopie wasn't" was kind of funny.

Oh, and something from common-sense-ville.
If someone says "I have a role with incriminating information; do you want me to reveal it", the answer is "yes, and why have you waited until now to talk about it". I don't have a problem with the people who have pecked into daniel's softclaim, vezo's attempt to softclaim, and LMP's softclaim - although the people who have attacked them for claiming (i.e. YOU'RE SUCH A MORON FOR CLAIMING) are unsavory at the least. Simply put, if you believe you have helpful information, don't just stand there and wave around that you have it but not tell what it is.

Chronopie's vote on nhammen is strange, and I'm surprised nobody has bothered to ask this question.

The fact that I'm online is worrisome? and agree with the points I would have made myself, had I been on earlier.

What about the points made against you? Y'know, the stuff that people are actually bothering with you about.

---

For Parama:

The entirety of The Goat's contributions, paraphrased for your convenience and pleasure:
1) *toss "random" vote that just happens to be on vezo*
2) I VOTE WHERE I WANT, I'M GROWN
3) WHY ARE YOU IDIOTS; YOUR CLAIMS ARE IN YIDDISH
Active lurking par excellence.

Dr. Robotnik is a-lurking to the point of being supremely useless. I don't like his SSBF vote and I don't like his daniel vote; both of them were easy marks.

SGRaaize is probably still scum.

SerialClergyman's posts make me smile. It feels like an age since I've been on the same page as someone.

Unvote: Dr. Robotnik

Vote: nhammen

(L-7)

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I plan on doing an analysis on everyone after Pomegranate comes back from V/LA and post some substance. There is so much substance in the game now, I have some form of opinion on everyone.

[Dry-fit]

@Dry-fit

, who on the wagon is suspicious?

The players who jumped on giving

no

reasoning. That would be askbob, Midnight's Sorrow, Lowell, and of course LynchMePls <3.

@Dry-fit 365: Sit on that fence some more please.

What fence? I think that both Robotnik and some of his wagoners are suspicious, and am currently voting one of the wagoners (LynchMePls).

Hidden rolefishing is scummier than blatant rolefishing. f they are Town, they have NOTHING TO HIDE.

Not buying this at all. How is it "hidden" if he's going so in depth into it? What about it is hiding?

I like parama's case on nhammen a lot. I also think its odd how chrono joined the wagon without talking about how Parama's case implicates him, but I'm not sure how I'd expect him to react to that.

unvote. vote: nhammen

[Pomegranate]

Well, SSBF, Pom is back. But she can't reread right now. She's planning to post tomorrow morning-y, since she'll have time, for once. She's happy that there's so much substance that SSBF has an opinion on everyone. She's looking forward to reading his post.

[pman5595]

nice scum catch

Vote: nhammen

If you want me to go back and list every reason I will, but I'm lazy. Others have stated the reasons.

[pman5595]

wait, are unvotes required?

Unvote, Vote: nhammen

[Chronopie]

@Vi: The rolefishing accusation?

--

You know what, I think the town is losing a lot of focus by the massive cluster **** that Vezo has caused.

I'd like to share my info with the town, since I've hinted at it

, but others don't seem to pick up on it.

If the town would like me to completely clear this whole mess up, I'm willing to do so. If people think I should be quiet I will.

Above all else, as much as it pains me to say it,

vezo is not scum

. Any lynch of

Vezo is a guaranteed mislynch.

We know that LMP is not a Mason. Therefore LMP has some inside info.

@LMP: what's this info you've

hinted

at?

Cop innocent on Vez?

Rolefishing accusations started because of the above, which was speculation. ofc I was reminded that this game wasn't one with an N0.

--

LMP said that they had been dropping hints, and wanted someone to ask, so I did. Just because I speculated what form they might take at the same time...

[Lowell]

Good enough for me.

unvote, vote nhammen