NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[Timeater]

catching up, will post soon

Also, this post is ruining Timeater's fun by pointing out that the Eater of Tims has posted onsite within the last fifteen minutes, but is woefully absent ITT.

D:

non sequitur: doesn't it seem like Vi's avatar is laughing at the size of your penis?

[Timeater]

not really laughing, more like, disgustedly amused. anyhoo

[Parama]

SGRaaize, if you continue to quote walls and respond with one-liners I will lynch you on policy because that's a waste of space and it only serves to make posts a lot longer than they need to be.

The problem with Nhammen's posting now is that he hasn't done anything to disprove my main points.

Your main points are absolute crap!

^This is not a defense^

TBQH I don't give a damn about your claim, since that's equally likely a scum role as it is town, and I believe you to be scum aside from it.

The wagon on me HAS to be scum driven. There is no way there could be this many mistakes unless there is a scum pushing them. I hope that Parama is scum.

Because I make valid points that you cannot deny, I'm scum? Sorry for scumhunting then.
Note that your argument is even weaker since there are two scumteams thus scum would want to find each other. I'm sure there's scum on the wagon, but it could be one scumgroup riding the wagon of another. And tbh that's fine, since it leads to a scumlynch. The goal of this game is to get the scum to lynch each other more than anything.
So obviously, you're just disguising OMGUS-esque logic as something that's certain not true. You call me scum for no reason, call my case crap for no reason, and you're just not even trying at all. I don't see how you can't be scum.

All of you lets lynch nhammen. Every town roleblocker claim I saw was just the scum roleblocker. My vote stands.

While there ARE town roleblockers, they're fairly uncommon, especially compared to scum roleblockers. But I'm going to say that you hit the nail on the head here because nhammen is so blatantly scum that a claim is near irrelevant.

Also, this post is ruining

Timeater's

fun by pointing out that the Eater of Tims has posted onsite within the last fifteen minutes, but is woefully absent ITT.

This post took over 15 minutes to write. Posts don't happen quickly y'know, I've spent half an hour writing one post before. Actually in one game I spent about 3 hours doing one ISO read (It wasn't worth it especially considering I was scum in that game).

...though what he posted after is rather lacking in the content department.

I'm not changing my vote and I'm not going to because nhammen is scum and letting him off with a claim (which could easily be a scum PR) is weak.

[Leafsnail]

So, having skimmed over the thread:

The wagon on nhammen is dumb. What's more, most of the people on him jumped on him with little to no reason. Personally, I read him as town.

Vote: Chronopie

. You need death, and you need it today. The way he joined the nhammen wagon is actually hilarious.

I agree with Parama and SC here.

unvote, Vote: Nhammen

--

And LMP said that they had been dropping hints, and wanted someone to ask, so I did. Just because I speculated what form they might take at the same time...

Followed immediately by:

The fact that I'm online is worrisome? and agree with the points I would have made myself, had I been on earlier.

And his last post admits he voted nhammen for lack of content in one of his posts. Oh yeah, great reason for pushing a lynch, Chronopie. And of course you shouldn't be expected to actually think for yourself when voting :/.

Vote: Chronopie

.

Parama has somewhat redeemed himself in my eyes. I disagree with some of his reads, but his reasoning seems genuine, and somehow... I don't see scum intent behind his recent posting.

Askbob is still scum. He's apparently trying to get a claimed Mason Monk (vouched for by 3 other people) lynched. And even so, he hasn't voted since his totally unnecessary "pressure vote" on robotnik.

[Parama]

I love the people who are saying I "redeemed" myself when I never did anything scummy in the first place.

[Vi]

Yes, I was and still am not sure my reasoning is all too good. I agree with parts of the case nhammen built, but ``I still don't get the feeling that he's scum, but I'm not too sure just yet.''. nhammen has made me look at the situation from a new direction, but I didn't find that new perspective impressive enough to give me a town read on him. Thus, I saw the countercase presented by Parama and found it much more convincing. It was certainly better than the read I had on SGRaaize. I find that a wagon right now will probably not lead to a lynch, but will add a lot to the structure of the game, which will make it easier to take a look at everyone and understand the situation better. Thus: I did not and do not see my vote as making me `obvscum', but do see it having rather poor reasoning -- not the worst on the wagon, but of a lower standard than I would normally put out.

*words words words words*

While you did a good job of sounding intelligent here, what you said comes down to this.
"*I saw a huge wagon on nhammen, and while I agreed with him a lot I decided to jump on the hamwagon for <vague

post facto

reason>.
*This wagon is supposed to help find scum (when and if I choose to do it; now doesn't seem to be a good time) and "understand the situation better" (whatever that means).
*While my position on the wagon makes no sense, you should be looking at someone else who had worse reasoning because they are more likely to be scum.
*(Notice I still haven't said anything about why nhammen is scummy or why my vote is still on him, especially if I was allegedly just pressuring him.)"

Not buying it.

---

@Timeater: Well if you knew who Tanith was...
So when are you going to stop saying you're going to catch up and actually do it?

---

@Parama: The fifteen minutes part wasn't important. The fact that he was onsite and not posting here was important.

---

I actually kind of hate Leafsnail 478. The wagon started, built up, and ended while he wasn't around, so it's perfectly safe to generically attack it as a bad move without really doing anything about it except selectively target the most likely lynch to arise from the wagon's collapse. Also, askbob hasn't posted since vezo claimed.

[MichelSableheart]

Seventh vote count of day 1:

askbob (0):
Chronopie (2):

Unsight, Leafsnail

daniel94581 (1):

Dr. Robotnik

Dr. Robotnik (1):

askbob

Dry-fit (0):
foilist13 (0):
Leafsnail (0):
Lowell (0):
LynchMePls (0):
Midnight's Sorrow (0):
nhammen (10):

Parama, SerialClergyman, Chronopie, Seraphim, Dry-fit, pman5595, Lowell, Sevis, vezopiraka, LynchMePls

Parama (1):

Midnight's Sorrow

pman5595 (0):
Pomegranate (0):
Seraphim (0):
SerialClergyman (0):
Sevis (1):

Vi

SGRaaize (1):

nhammen

Super Smash Bros. Fan (0):
The Goat (0):
Timeater (0):
Unsight (0):
vezopiraka (2):

foilist13, Super Smash Bros. Fan

Vi (0):

Not Voting (5):

Timeater, Pomegranate, The Goat, daniel94581, SGRaaize

With 24 players alive, it takes 13 votes to lynch someone.

---

All players have posted within the last 48 hours, therefore noone will be prodded.

[Timeater]

Jesus H. Christ on a flying magical donkey. They ferriswheel has gone round n' round.

D1: The Condensed Version!

~~~~~~somewhat in order

^Vi impersonation

6 pages of pregame foolishness

SSBF pregame scummery, arguments over his noobishness ensue.

Parama's super-zealous attacks on SSBF are matched by the caliber of his mistakes. Scuminess ensues.

Arguments over LMP's noobishness ensue.

Vi's irrelevant questionaire, Vi's several early "town tells"

Seraphim and Vi's sidebar

Leaf's hunting and somewhat aggressive posting style seems to dominate several conversations.

daniel's annoying softclaim and color usage

Before page 10, several active lurkers emerge: The Goat & Midnight's Sorrow. While Pman, Robotnik (and myself :<) could be considered 'real' lurkers

This bombshell:

Oh my fucking God.

Well, this is utterly and completely retarded so let me clear this up.

I am a Mason. Both Vezo and Daniel are Masons with me. I know that they are not Mafia. I am currently ensuring that they are also confirmed non-werewolves as well. I have no clue where Vezo is getting his information. I have no idea where Daniel is getting his information.

askbob's rage level goes haywire, scum suspicions rise

Chronopie starts to ping a few scumdars, including my own.

foilist comes out swinging, pushes vezo

Robotnik surfaces; advocates daniel lynch

nhammen wagon emerges, several people shamelessly hop on (vi, lowell, pman)

"Interesting" Sevis post:

Interesting finds, both nhammen and Parama. Now that I re-read foilist's posts, he does seem to be rolefishing quite a bit: previously, I took this for him just trying to make sense of the game. I still don't get the feeling that he's scum, but I'm not too sure just yet. Vezo really is contributing far less to the game than he could be, hinting at the role without any clarification only helps scum, as far as I can see.

The speed with which Chronopie jumped on the nhammen wagon does surprise me -- he seems to be hoping to put the focus away from him and thus be forgotten. This doesn't look like very pro-town play to me. I also have to agree that his attempts at rolefishing would cause more harm if they were successful (I see LMP's role and knowledge to currently be of more importance than vezo's).

This gem!

I am a monk (functionally the same as a mason). I am one of three. Vezo is one of the other monks. I choose to not disclose the third monks identity at this time.

As a monk, I know that my monk partners ARE NOT werewolves. I do not know if they are mafia or not.

When Vezo started spewing his unbelievable "Lynch is mafia" business, I was initially confused. When he then started accusing daniel, I started to get an idea about where his info was coming from. When Seraph made the claim, all the pieces fell into place. There are essentially two groups that can talk at night. 1 is a mason group that knows each other are not mafia. The other is a monk group that knows each other aren't werewolves. To further complicate things, Vezo is in both.

For some reason, my guess being that Vezo isn't good at logic, Vezo thinks that because he was told "the members of this group can't be werewolves" he thinks that means one of them MUST be mafia. And since he was told that "a member of this mason group can't be mafia" he took that to mean one of them MUST be a werewolf. I'll give you all a moment to digest this appalling use of logic. For some of us who are logic challenged, I'll use this example. X can belong to the group A, B, or C. You are told X is not A. Does that mean X is B??? Clearly not.

Now, for whatever reason, he decided that between me and the other member of our group, I must be the mafioso.

What does this tell us: First and foremost, since no one in Seraph's group can be mafia, and no one in my group can be werewolf, and Vezo is in both, VEZO IS CONFIRMED TOWN. PLEASE STOP TRYING TO LYNCH HIM. It also tells us that Vezo's logic isn't very sharp, and we should be careful with any conclusions he draws from information. (I don't mean to be rude, this is just a fact). Lastly, the possibility does exist that Seraph, daniel, and MonkX are scum, though they can only belong to a specific faction.

I'm pretty sure Vezo completely wrecked the usefulness of the Monk and Mason groups. I think at this point, the best way to salvage the situation is to confirm a townie, and get us back on track hunting for scum amongst the rest of the game. This explains why I said that of the three masons, daniel is the most likely to be scum, but I wanted to be clear I didn't mean that daniel IS scummy. I think Seraph's claim only makes sense if he is not a mason/werewolf. If he were a mason/werewolf he would have been happy to let the whole thing continue spiraling out of control

.

More claims! Yay!

Your main points are absolute crap! I try to disprove and nobody thinks these arguments are any good. Have you ever tried to argue with a Creationist? Same thing. Or at least it feels that way to me. But maybe that is my viewpoint.

It seems it is time for me to claim. I am a roleblocker. And I would also make claims about the intelligence of the people on this wagon, but I think that would be against the site rules.

Also, the vezo info was obvious to anybody that was paying any attention at all. And I would have preferred that there was no claim, so that no matter what LMPs alignment, the Werewolves would think he is Cop and would kill someone that is only partially confirmed rather than someone that is completely confirmed.

Well, now what?

I forget anything?

unvote

vote: Chronopie

Chronopie has been the scummiest player in this confusing game by alot. Building a case against him is easy. If you temporarily forget some of the claims and the scumtheories regarding the people accused in those circles, Chronopie is still a solid lynch. Think about canoeing in a river. Vezo/Daniel/Seraph are the rapids, LMP/nhammen are waterfalls, Chronopie is the nice little tributary you can just chill down while enjoying some pleasant conversation with your canoeing buddy. His lynch is the path of least resistance. Those other things will sort themselves out. What the fuck Timeater are you on crack? Anyway, I need to pee. I'll post later.

[Pomegranate]

Catchup from 15 onward coming tomorrow.

[Vi]

Jesus H. Christ on a flying magical donkey.

[words that don't say anything]

unvote

vote: Chronopie

Chronopie has been the scummiest player in this confusing game by alot. Building a case against him is easy.

[If you're trying to think about that statement, relax - don't do it.]

[more words that don't say anything]

What the fuck Timeater are you on crack? Anyway, I need to pee.

Abridged for people on the go (so to speak).

Appropriate killing parties, please off Timeater sometime; plz & ty

[Leafsnail]

I actually kind of hate Leafsnail 478. The wagon started, built up, and ended while he wasn't around, so it's perfectly safe to generically attack it as a bad move without really doing anything about it except selectively target the most likely lynch to arise from the wagon's collapse. Also, askbob hasn't posted since vezo claimed.

...I guess it'd be a "safe move" from a scum perspective, but that's how I read it. I don't really care whether Chrono is a "likely lynch" or not - he's scum.

The part about askbob is true, but his apparent willingness to lynch masons is still odd considering his ISO 16, 20 and 21. The point about him having no real scumreads stands.

[Parama]

Epic scumslip, Time.

BUT I STILL WANT NHAMMEN LYNCHED.

[Timeater]

[words that don't say anything]

Its so easy anyone can do it!

My play-by-play is not irrelevant! I'm trying to share my thoughts as quickly and succinctly as possible as I dont really have the time or the mindfuel to sort through this game

at the moment

. D1 bullshit aside, the game will eventually thin out and become fun. If I make it to that point in time, hooray. If not, shrug!

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Okay, first Seraphim claims that he, daniel, and Vezopiraka were masons. Vezopiraka claimed monk and LynchMePls claimed monk as well. This is defindently confusing.

Although I am suspicious of nhammen, I think the bandwagon is going waaaaay too fast. Because of one scummy post, he's at L-2. We have over a month, let's use that to our advantage. Don't lynch him this quickly.

@The Goat: Please hurry up with your analysis. Right now, you're slightly suspicious to me. I'll give you until midnight today to get your analysis up.

@Pomegranate: I'm just responding to some things now. Analysis coming up later.

Unvote
Vote: nhammen

lol, this is too easy. Nice catch, Parama. I retract what I said earlier about you being an idiot. 8D I hope we can be buddies now.

This is all you have to add after coming back? Another vote and an agreement with Parama? Pretty disappointing. I was hoping to see more contents out of you.

FomS: Seraphim

@nhammen (#428): We have legitimate reasons for suspecting you. If I was in your position, I would be embarrased.

What does this tell us: First and foremost, since no one in Seraph's group can be mafia, and no one in my group can be werewolf, and Vezo is in both, VEZO IS CONFIRMED TOWN. PLEASE STOP TRYING TO LYNCH HIM.

Actually, Vezopiraka being scum is very well possible, even as an Monk/Mason. He has a lower chance of being a scum, but it is possible. Please stop trying to denide the possibility of them being scum.

1) We lynch Daniel/Vezo
2) They town, oops
3) They mafia/werewolves, the other two go

Just because they are masons/monks and one of them flip scums doesn't mean all of them are scums as well. It doesn't hurt to look for connection between them, thought, if one of them do flip town.

So you only vote players that you are certain are scum? (The way I play, unless it's RVS or something, you vote whichever player is scummiest, even if it's not that scummy, because scummiest=more likely to be scum than any other player, at least in my book.)

Not really that certain. For example, take my vote on Parama. I unvoted him and replaced his vote with a vote on Vezopiraka. I only want to make a vote on a person when I think I can get a solid case going against that particular person. I do plan on avoiding frequently changing votes, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to change if I find another top suspect.

All of you lets lynch nhammen. Every town roleblocker claim I saw was just the scum roleblocker. My vote stands.

Okay, not this early. The game started less then a week ago, so we need to give him a little more time before lynching him. When it gets reasonably close to the deadline, then I won't mind a lynch, especially not on my top suspect.
@Timeater (#482): No offense, but aside from vote Chornopie, you didn't really give us much to work on. All you did was basically summerize up the day.

[Dry-fit]

@Dry-fit 365: Sit on that fence some more please.

What fence? I think that both Robotnik and some of his wagoners are suspicious, and am currently voting one of the wagoners (LynchMePls)

That's a bit of a misrepresentation. You were voting me before my Dr. Robotnik vote, so you can't say you voted me because I was on that wagon.

That's now what I was implying. By accusing me of being on the fence he was saying I was accusing a lot of people without taking a firm stance on any of them. I assume he said this because I didn't place a vote in that post. The reason for that is that I was previously voting for one of them (you) and this just added to my case. However, with your claim and recent posts I think it's likely you're town.

@Vi: I don't think Lowell or Midnight are obvtown at all.

I'm just wondering why some of you think he could be a Scum Roleblocker. Those are (To my knowledge) in newb games here mostly. Besides that, he hasn't really acted all that scummy in my eyes.

Actually the most common scum power roles around here are godfather and roleblocker.

[SGRaaize]

SGRaaize, if you continue to quote walls and respond with one-liners I will lynch you on policy because that's a waste of space and it only serves to make posts a lot longer than they need to be.

Are you serious?
Seriously, you guys threaten for such ridiculous reasons, in another game someone is gonna vote lynch a guy because supposedly he didn't talk in like mid day, now I am threatened of being lynched if I don't stop quoting big posts

And SSBF, thing is, I was suspecting a fake Mason claim before, until having LynchMePls on the mix

[Unsight]

I am a monk (functionally the same as a mason). I am one of three. Vezo is one of the other monks. I choose to not disclose the third monks identity at this time.

As a monk, I know that my monk partners ARE NOT werewolves. I do not know if they are mafia or not.

So much for my epiphany.

FoS: SSBF

(for original voting reasons)

FoS: Vi

(for this post)

After nhammen mentioned the possibility of another town group (monks), I figured that's the only thing that would explain Vi's town read on SSBF and voting one of SSBF's attackers seemingly to shut down SSBF's wagon. Since that's no longer the case, both of them look pretty scummy now.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

And SSBF, thing is, I was suspecting a fake Mason claim before, until having LynchMePls on the mix

I think you have a point there. Seraphim was the only person as the time with a town read (Now he's mildly suspicious to me, due to his actions lately) out of the three. Suddenly, because he wanted to get us out of a situation, he decided to claim for him, Vezopiraka, and daniel. I really did disapporve of this claim and I always kept it in thought that it could very well be false. Even if it wasn't, it is possible that at least one of them could be a werewolf.

But with Vezopiraka and LynchMePls claiming monk, the mason/monk situation is really confusing.

Now I'd like to ask everyone this question. How do we get out of this situation about monks/masons and start focusing on the main thing that matter, scum hunting?

[Vi]

@Vi: I don't think Lowell or Midnight are obvtown at all.

Well okay, Lowell looks good by his own standards and I'm probably the only person who thinks as much.
But there have been two separate instances where M-Sorrow has been called obvTown (by Lowell and SerialClergyman) and I agree with them. Why do you disagree with these reads?

Do you still like your vote on nhammen?

FoS: Vi

(for this post)

I am not psychic. If it were not for vezo's claims I would still be voting him for what he did until he claimed. :dealwithit:
I'm reading SSBF as n00bTown; I have been reading SSBF as n00bTown since more or less the beginning of the game. vezo's jump on SSBF was horrible. That it was SSBF in particular being wagoned didn't matter.

Now I'd like to ask everyone this question. How do we get out of this situation about monks/masons and start focusing on the main thing that matter, scum hunting?

You must be playing in an echo chamber; a lot of "everyone" has been over the Monks/Masons debacle for a while now
Talking of scumhunting, why are you still voting for Parama?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Talking of scumhunting, why are you still voting for Parama?

My vote is currently on Vezopiraka if you haven't seen the latest vote count.

[Leafsnail]

SSBF - uh, so even though he can't be a werewolf or a mafia member (the two scum factions in this game) he could still be scum?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF - uh, so even though he can't be a werewolf or a mafia member (the two scum factions in this game) he could still be scum?

Actually, a Mason/Monk can still be one of the scums as well, just that there's a lower possibility of it, since most Masons are town.

[Parama]

SSBF, Mason = not mafia, Monk = not werewolf, therefore Vezo = not scum.

[Vi]

Talking of scumhunting, why are you still voting for Parama?

My vote is currently on Vezopiraka if you haven't seen the latest vote count.

My personal failure aside, I don't see how your vezo vote is any better
I think you need to look at the talk about the Masons and Monks again.~

[Leafsnail]

SSBF - uh, so even though he can't be a werewolf or a mafia member (the two scum factions in this game) he could still be scum?

Actually, a Mason/Monk can still be one of the scums as well, just that there's a lower possibility of it, since most Masons are town.

Mason = a role that is not mafia. Daniel and Seraphim have both confirmed this.
Monk = a role that is not a werewolf. Lynchmeplz has confirmed this.

So Vezo is not a mafia member or a werewolf. HE IS NOT SCUM