Thief wrote:
Guy you said you want to hear from Pom but besides her you would vote Primate. I looked in your ISO and I see no reason for you to be suspicious of Primate.
Guy's latest post is also game-theory fluffiness.
^^ this. 100%.
unvote, vote: guy0
sorry pom. i wanted to even the wagons there and see what happened. didn't realize the v/la, and i don't find
anything
scummy about your play so far. guy was oppurtunistic when the wagons evened. you took the high road.
Wow, I did not think that I would be taken to L-1. Lucky me I suppose.
I was really hoping to not do this on day one …. On page 5 … but you all insist on being very hasty so I must comply.
I am the Hider. Thus my reasoning for wanting to move away from the topic of hider now becomes clear, I was the hider, and had no reason to talk about it since I already knew how I was going to go about doing things.
As for why you should believe me, the reasons are simple, and I believe they’ve already been discussed. One, there would be no reason for me to false claim hider, since the real hider could claim without fear of being NK’d the following night. The advantage to the hider role is that they can claim without being surely killed the next night since they can just …. Well … hide. Obviously there is the chance that the hider chooses a scum target, or that both the hider and the scum target the same person, which poses some risks, which is why I did not wish to claim at this point, but, what can you do, you all seem to think I’m scum.
IF anyone chooses to counterclaim, then the town will benefit 1 scum for either no loss to the town, or at the cost of a mislynched hider. Which means that the scum would need to be pretty dumb to counterclaim me at this point.
The advantages that come with me roleclaiming hider are simple:
1. I’m now a confirmed townie (assuming no one else roleclaims, which would result in net gain for the town as I previously mentioned).
2. I have “cop-esque” powers, in the sense that, should I choose to hide behind someone tonight, and I don’t wind up dead the next day, I can tell all of you who I had chosen as my human shield, at which point that person would be deemed completely innocent.
3. The scum can’t just kill me tonight as a confirmed town kill since I have either a 70% or, if we are smart and lucky, a 80% chance of not hiding behind scum, which would result in me avoiding the kill if the scum targets me, which would translate to a 60% or 70% chance of me surviving to the next night if I wasn’t targeted.
4. Now I can say whatever I want without the fear that you all will accuse me of being scum for saying it, which has clearly been a problem since I’m at L-1 … on page 5.
Although these odds seem to be rather annoying, I can hopefully use what I already know to choose a good target that is unlikely scum.
Sorry for all of those people who said hider shouldn't claim yet, but ... well, you have all given me no other choice.
Pom wrote:And what is this, a lose-lose, scenario? If I jump on the wagon, well Pom just joined the biggest wagon. If I consider jumping but don't, well then Pom isn't voting someone she finds scummy. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
How about just vote who is scummy and not worry so much about how it makes you look. Unless you are scum, then just keep doing what you are doing.
Pom wrote:Oh, and we definitely don't hypoclaim. Because if someone claims to have hidden behind mafia, they know that that player isn't the real hider. Same if someone claims to have hidden behind a NK target that say, didn't go through. Scum use PoE and quickly narrow down the possible hiders.
It helps scum find the hider, but it helps town in case the hider dies because we get some confirmed townies which are so much more valuable than the life of the hider. Not that that matters if Guy is actually the hider, which I see he has claimed.
Pom wrote:Dj's wagon jump without anything but
Pom wrote:is noted. Same with Primate's jump, without
anything.
Vote: Primate.
Pom wrote:
Hand of Suspicion: Sleepless Assassin.
Pom wrote:No, it's not OMGUS. He's trying to push a wagon that is built off of straw, if that.
Nope, no OMGUS there. Just suspecting anyone who votes you. Not the same thing as OMGUS at all.
ConfidAnon wrote:
Thief wrote:I don't feel it is necessary to put my town tells out in public. Just helps scum adapt their game.
I don't like this, but it's not a glaring thing. Kind of feels like an excuse to throw out town reads for no reason as scum, but not a big issue on its own.
Unvote: guy0
Vote: Sleepless Assassin (L-4)
Any reason for this vote?
Empking wrote:We still don't want the hider to claim targets, right?
Before the night, no. After, yes.
3-2 as scum and 5-8 as town
Www.escapeintothemixradio.com/EMRchatroom.html come say hi
Update on my opinions. Happy with vote on pm atm, looking at BP with interest. Chronopie did something that i would normally consider a towntell (bandwagon pushing for claim implying confidence and willingness to deal with attention on self), but I don't really think that's the full story in terms of mindset there at all given other considerations.
Chrono wrote:This is a fairly common pressure vote reason. null-tell.
That seems to be the only reason you did it though. Do you frequently pressure vote to bring people to -1 and claim in the way you did or did you also have other reasons for voting guy? Seeing as how you refer to it as a pressure vote, do you consider that mentally distinct from a lynch vote?
Yes I do place pressure-claim votes fairly often. Pressure votes are separate from lynch votes. Pressure is placed on someone under some suspicion, lynch is on someone I'm fairly sure is scum.
I would have left it as a lynch vote if I were unhappy with the claim, given Iso. But Hider makes sense given iso, thus the unvote.
As in, if the iso had been hider discussion heavy (it was), but he'd claimed Watcher or VT, it wouldn't have matched up so well, and I would have been more suspect.
Would you mind at all going into what you saw as as relevant enough to the guy Iso that (and obviously enough clarify me if this is misrep, I don't think it is) that you were sure enough that he was hider or scum that you would follow through to a lynch if he didn't claim hider?
I saw a couple of indications at the time, and in retrospect there's more, but I still wouldn't be happy doing what you suggested you were doing with what's there.
*Be willing to leave the vote on Guy, rather than unvoting*
The depth that Guy was willing to discuss the hider issue to. iso #2, #4, and a significant part of #7, suggest that Guy has an vested interest in hider theory, so far as to debunk the ideas that would see him die N1. (i.e. pre-claiming hiding target)
Chronopie wrote:Yes I do place pressure-claim votes fairly often. Pressure votes are separate from lynch votes. Pressure is placed on someone under some suspicion, lynch is on someone I'm fairly sure is scum.
I would have left it as a lynch vote if I were unhappy with the claim, given Iso. But Hider makes sense given iso, thus the unvote.
so you put someone at L-1 and asked for a claim... for pressure?
What if I was just hider discussion heavy because I was a VT and wanted to make sure that the hider knew what he/she was doing?
Forcing a claim like that on page 5 does very little in terms of being pro-town, especially when it's a pressure vote.
Consider this:
1. If I was a VT, I would have claimed VT, explained my actions about the hider discussion as per what I just said.
2. If I was a watcher, I would be forced to claim watcher, meaning I would be dead tomorrow, resulting in my role doing absolutely no good. Especially if you didn't believe me, and I was lynched that day.
3. If I was scum, I would just claim VT, and the same as 1 would go on.
4. If I was hider, I'd do what I did.
The only good scenario that could of come out of this claim force on page 5 for the town's sake is if I was the hider. Any other scenario would have just caused more confusion, or outed me as a town PR without providing more info.
