Open 218: Two-fold C9 - Game Over

[Mr.Sandman]

XScorpion (1) Chronopie
inHimshallibe (3) Elscouta, Mr.Sandman, Beefster
Chronopie (2) Toon Fighter, ODDin
easjo682 (3) Scott Brosius, XScorpion, Mr. Chaos
Toon Fighter (1) Slepz
ODDin (1) inHimshallibe
(No vote) easjo682
12 alive; 7 votes lynch.

@Sandman: What's so unlikely about VI and scum? It seems pretty viable to look like you have no idea what you're talking about and be scum. Maybe I just used the wrong term. I'm suspicious with the way InHim been responding to questions as well- it's definitely not my only reason. I just thought that was a good way to summarize/clarify an earlier post. *shrugs*

As for the late RQS, I didn't really think of it earlier. The RVS ended really quickly, and I didn't really catch that until I looked in hindsight.

The chances of an experienced player playing VI don't seem particularly realistic. It would be obvious they were scum, because if they were town, then they wouldn't be trying to play stupid. What makes you think he's playing VI?

I noticed a couple of people who haven't contributed as heavily (ie: not at all) who showed up to post their RQS before promptly dissipating into the mist. I really don't like that.

Agreed. Like Chrono and Scott Brosius.

Then there are those who have yet to respond to the questions or contribute anything substantial instead - yourself, Toonfighter and slepz.
I can't see any reference to an inactivity limit in the rules but Toonfighter deserves a prod soon

[Beefster]

I just realized that VI was entirely the wrong term. My Bad.

A recap/reclarification on my case against inHim:
I didn't like his propaganda argument on ODDin. And I'm not at all happy with the fact that he attacked the first person to have a somewhat serious vote. (even if it wasn't for that reason) I never liked how he attacked ODDin based upon word choice and how he faded into the background when actively attacked. He's not playing like a 6th year townie would. (And I guess that's how I came up with the (invalid) VI argument- Mind you the argument I indended to convey is still valid, but no longer improperly termed.)
A potential train of thought: inHim sees a potential ending to the RVS and tries to blur it by finding a stupid reason to vote on the first somewhat serious vote. He then tries to prolong it more by saying that his defense of the attack (better than random vote = dishonest) was just "casting for nibbles." Then when he realizes that the end of the RVS is inevitable, he fades into the background.

Scummy if I ever saw it.

[inHimshallibe]

One more day, please. I have an interview tomorrow! I've been so busy getting things arranged; mafia has just kind of been pushed to the back burner.

Glorious return tomorrow.

[easjo682]

we've been having severe weather down here recently, don't know when it will end, but its been having an effect on my ability to connect to the intertrons, so I'm not sure how often I'll be able to post for the next couple days.

[Scott Brosius]

Here, will post

[Scott Brosius]

In my opinion little of worth happened yet. Crappy cases on easjo and inhim based off really weak cases got a few votes, but nothing much happened.

@Beefster :
* Could you sum up your case on easjo? After a reread, I still don't understand.

It starts with the "voices in my head" gag just after the RVS. He's trying to prolong it.
He's lying/contradicting himself.
I think there's a good chance that he's scum.

How is there a good chance he is scum? We have gone through 5 pages and maybe 1 of actual discussion. This case is incredibly weak. Also as someone mentioned you also prolonged the RVS/RQS with your questions. This alone isn't inherently scummy, but it is when you call someone else as scummy for it

Unvote
Vote:Beefster

[Korejora]

ConfidAnon replaces Toon Fighter.

[ConfidAnon]

1. How long have you been playing Mafia? (inside and outside MS)
2. How would you describe your meta?
3. What's your win/loss record?
4. Favorite setup?
5. What do you think is the biggest scum tell?
6. How do you make your decisions?

1. I'd say around two years.
2. Me being very unmotivated to play mafia.
3. I don't keep track.
4. An unexpected, balanced closed setup.
5. Someone dying and the moderator revealing them to be scum.
6. Too vague to answer.

Unvote: Chronopie (L-6)
Vote: inHimshallibe (L-3)

I really don't like the word choice thing. Also, I really don't see anything glaringly scummy about easjo's play. Seems like joking to me.

[ODDin]

Hmm, noticed some things I've missed yesterday.

Sandman, you've been accusing beefster of discussing a possibility of VI-scum. But Scorpion has been talking about that even earlier, and he even said he'd used the tactic of VI-scum himself.

Also, this:

The chances of an experienced player playing VI don't seem particularly realistic. It would be obvious they were scum, because if they were town, then they wouldn't be trying to play stupid. What makes you think he's playing VI?

is WIFOM.


And Beefster, I don't really like how you're trying very hard to look for links in post 95. We're only starting the game, I really think it's way too early to look for links between people.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that looking for links is of little value before you have at least one confirmed scum in your hand, and then you look for people linked to him. It's just that links are hard to be certain about most of the time (unless it's something like chainsaw defence), so if you know nothing for certain about the players involved, looking for links tends to yield null-tells.
But even if we don't go that far, what you're talking about is very weak. Speculating about scumteams at this stage of the game can only confuse the discussion and is generally counterproductive.

[Mr.Sandman]

I just realized that VI was entirely the wrong term. My Bad.

A recap/reclarification on my case against inHim:
I didn't like his propaganda argument on ODDin. And I'm not at all happy with the fact that he attacked the first person to have a somewhat serious vote. (even if it wasn't for that reason) I never liked how he attacked ODDin based upon word choice and how he faded into the background when actively attacked. He's not playing like a 6th year townie would. (And I guess that's how I came up with the (invalid) VI argument- Mind you the argument I indended to convey is still valid, but no longer improperly termed.)
A potential train of thought: inHim sees a potential ending to the RVS and tries to blur it by finding a stupid reason to vote on the first somewhat serious vote. He then tries to prolong it more by saying that his defense of the attack (better than random vote = dishonest) was just "casting for nibbles." Then when he realizes that the end of the RVS is inevitable, he fades into the background.

Scummy if I ever saw it.

I don't like this for the fact that this is the second or third thing beefster has said where, when pressed on them and his arguments found wanting, he's backtracked.

Hmm, noticed some things I've missed yesterday.

Sandman, you've been accusing beefster of discussing a possibility of VI-scum. But Scorpion has been talking about that even earlier, and he even said he'd used the tactic of VI-scum himself.

Also, this:

The chances of an experienced player playing VI don't seem particularly realistic. It would be obvious they were scum, because if they were town, then they wouldn't be trying to play stupid. What makes you think he's playing VI?

is WIFOM.

Scorpion, how long had you been on the sight when you played VI as scum and were you successful?

Fair enough, I can see why that looks like WIFOM. I suppose it all depends on how people interpret the village idiot. But seriously, if someone is town, they're not going to intentionally play the village idiot and it should be obvious. Do experienced townies ever come across as the VI? I think that is highly unlikely as they're going to know what they're doing when playing the game.

[inHimshallibe]

The word choice is being blown way out of proportion, and I mean WAY.

unvote
vote: Beefster

Scummy spin when accusing me/easjo of prolonging the RVS.

[ConfidAnon]

The word choice is being blown way out of proportion, and I mean WAY.

How so?

[Mr. Chaos]

Ah. Never mind. Someone misquoted you, so I thought it was on the same post.
(it was on the need to change votes->no reason to change votes.)

You still appear to prolong the RVS, along with inHim. Surprisingly enough, the RVS ended on page 2, on ODDin's vote.

What is this I don't even

You've essentially done the same thing, but your calling out inHim on this. I dislike this highly.

Unvote

I'll vote when I see the next vote count.

[Elscouta]

The word choice is being blown way out of proportion, and I mean WAY.

unvote
vote: Beefster

Scummy spin when accusing me/easjo of prolonging the RVS.

We waited so long for this rebuttal? I'm disappointed by you, my friend.

On the other hand, i'm happy to see my vote in a good place.

[XScorpion]

Scorpion, how long had you been on the sight when you played VI as scum and were you successful?

If I did my math right, 6 months.
And yes, quite so.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13537

Waiting for easjo to tell me who is scum.
I'm not sure which is scummier: InHim's play, or the speed at which the bandwagon is picking up on him.

[Chronopie]

@Mod: Check my sig, V/LA

[Scott Brosius]

Scorpion, how long had you been on the sight when you played VI as scum and were you successful?

He did it last game I played with him, I was town. Worked pretty well although his partners distancing was more the reason it was successful. Also a 2 scum group game fwiw.

[XScorpion]

It only makes sense...if you were scum and your partner started acting like a VI, surely you wouldn't try to defend him?

[Beefster]

The word choice is being blown way out of proportion, and I mean WAY.

unvote
vote: Beefster

Scummy spin when accusing me/easjo of prolonging the RVS.

We waited so long for this rebuttal? I'm disappointed by you, my friend.

On the other hand, i'm happy to see my vote in a good place.

What is this supposed to mean? You change paradigms or something. (I can't think of any better terminology...)

[easjo682]

Waiting for easjo to tell me who is scum.

Right now I don't know, although I didn't like how you jumped on me when I posted a non serious post, I don't see anything in the action other than trying to pin down scum.

Beefster prolong RVS(with RQS) even more so than my infraction, even though discussion about my infraction has already developed then in his next post points out that he has a problem with me prolonging RVS when he in fact did the same thing even longer after RVS. this comes off as scummy to me.

Beefster

Elscouta jumped on me pretty quickly when I did my joke post, then off again pretty quickly claiming he felt my answer was right, as though he was trying to look like he was scum hunting, yet later on wants to know the case on me.

Slepz only has two posts, RVS post and V/LA which the time has passed.

[XScorpion]

I think you missed the "

Vote:

"

[easjo682]

argg you're right

Vote:

sorry mod

[easjo682]

man I'm an idiot

Vote:Beefster

W00T finally got there

[Elscouta]

The word choice is being blown way out of proportion, and I mean WAY.

unvote
vote: Beefster

Scummy spin when accusing me/easjo of prolonging the RVS.

We waited so long for this rebuttal? I'm disappointed by you, my friend.

On the other hand, i'm happy to see my vote in a good place.

What is this supposed to mean? You change paradigms or something. (I can't think of any better terminology...)

I meant that I expected a lot more from the lead suspect after a V/LA than "oh this is getting way out of proportion". Which makes me happy to have my vote on him.

[XScorpion]

But seriously, if someone is town, they're not going to intentionally play the village idiot and it should be obvious.

I've done it before. It's actually a neat way to bait scum...scum are quite eager to jump on a VI wagon, and once you start looking at the reasoning of the people voting for you, you can often see scummy tendencies...

So basically what we have going right now is:
wagon 1: Beefster because he is a hypocrite.
wagon 2: Inhim because he claimed that ODDin's vote "wasn't better than a random note" and now is getting chewed out for his use of the word "better."

Seriously guys? And you thought my attack on easjo was lame...I don't like either of these wagons so I'm going to try to start a third one.

unvote
Vote: Mr. Chaos

because he hasn't contributed anything original. Also keeping an eye on the other people with low post counts (Slepz, Chrono, Scott).