Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[Cove]

Now I know what we forgot to do when attacking scot. I KNEW we should have been more cryptic and threatening. [/sarcasm]

But on a serious note, you know I can't defend against something my predecessor did, especially since I don't understand what you're talking about. PE's intro looks no different than something I would say if I were replacing someone who said nothing and needed some time to get my thoughts straight.

don's vote on me seems precarious. In the first half of his post he holds to the notion that scot could definitely be scum since zoraster could have been bussing, then votes me to equal up the wagons for no apparent reason since he isn't sure about the Amished "tell". I'm thinking scot/don are a scum pair.

FOS don

[The Fonz]

I claimed the Fonz's case on me to be weak for his analysis of my vote on Vas, which I strongly disagreed with, and his focus on me lurking.

Except that, y'know, both of these were fairly minor points: and I don't think I ever used the word 'lurking' to describe why I'm suspicious of you. My case on you, now as then, is that I expect a significant concentration of scum within those who were on neither scum wagon; everyone else in that category has given me some reason, however slight, to think they are town; a town-aiding action, an appearance of sincerity, etc. I see absolutely nothing from you that is better than a null-tell.

Basically, I'm concluding with regard to you is: you are someone who has some actions which look like scum might do them if they can get away with them, and you have fairly decent explanations of these. However what I don't see is any town-tells whatsoever, and some potentially scum-helping actions combined with reasonable-sounding explanations and no towntells says decent scum to me.

What I see of you is someone who criticised the mipe wagon, but didn't do any analysis of it; someone who, when offered the chance to join dahill and shanba in pushing ksun as a counterwagon to mipe, did not do so;

What you have done is try to make the argument about the precise timing of this or that vote, and focus in on the minutiae to try to discredit a case that's fairly broad, and simple: Your actions vis-a-vis mipe look like distancing from, rather than genuinely opposing, the wagon, Zoraster's attack on you and subsequently completely forgetting all about it looks like bussing, both times when you had an opportunity to vote for a scum with a reasonable chance of causing their lynch, you went for an alternative candidate.

Let's look at your posts while the mipewagon was rolling:

Yeah, I'm not liking the mipe wagon. Just seems like he is a player that doesn't really care, and that is not mutually exclusive with scum.

I propose we look for scum. Not policy lynch someone who everyone is disappointed in. As quag has said, the goal is to find scum.

Why do you think mipe is town?

Why do you think [mipe] is scum? Burden of proof lies on those trying to lynch him.

There's a lot of 'Yeah, this wagon is bad.' In fact, there's a lot of it throughout. Not 'this wagon is scumdriven' or 'Hey guys, how is this [mipe's actions] in any way as scummy as [other player's actions?] No 'I think X is opportunistic scum in his vote for mipe.'

There's also a fair bit of asking questions, and not really following through with them, which can be a sign of scum trying to appear active.

[The Fonz]

Hate to DP, but I will anyway:

Scot, when I use the term 'scummy-looking lurker' what I mean is, someone who's got few significant actions, a substantial proportion of which hurt town or help scum.

@Cove: PE may not have been around for the Zoraster lynch, but that's not the point. It's not that his non-presence on the wagon is scummy per se; it's that being on it is townish. The absence of towntells is scummy.

[VasudeVa]

Well, I looked at all the votecounts, and I copy-pasted the largest wagon into Word (if the wagon was on scum, I found the second-largest wagon). I then assigned a 'point' to a player everytime their name showed up on the document. VV was the leader with 15 points, followed by Cove & RichardGHP with 8 points each. In other words, he's been on the largest wagon 65% of the time, which strongly suggests that he's going for an easy lynch, which is a scum trait. Thus the vote.

Which is a pretty awesome case... aside from the fact that all the lynches so far are scum(I would have voted zoraster too if I wasn't away for deadline D:) + my d2 defense makes me real townie.

Covewagon smells like a scum wagon(Yes, any wagon I'm not on is a scumwagon.) don vote is a blatant attempt at a counter wagon. We lynch him tomorrow.

I don't get why PE post #1 is a scumtell.

zoraster's scot vote feels more like 'Hey scumbuddy~ I'm voting for you, *nudge nudge wink wink*. You aren't in any danger of being lynched any time soon anyway and this will make people like Amished think I am bussing prematurely incase I die for some reason!'.

Lynch scot, lynch don the next day = town victory yay! I think 4 is a safe number for scum in a 20 player game(or is it now? Not sure~). We got already got two, so yeah.

See you in a week or whenever I feel like posting in this slow game. D:

[The Fonz]

Covewagon smells like a scum wagon(Yes, any wagon I'm not on is a scumwagon.) don vote is a blatant attempt at a counter wagon. We lynch him tomorrow.

If you think I'm voting don to try to counterwagon Cove, who you supposedly think is scum, why would you want to lynch him tomorrow? *Sigh* so newbie. Not to mention, who made the flippin' case on Scot in the first place... I want to pressure Don because his current level of contribution is unacceptable, and a wagon is the best way to force someone to make a game more of a priority. (This game isn't THAT long, btw). Although I have something of a town read on Quag, it's not strong enough that I'm unwilling to
lynch Don if he keeps giving excuses rather than opinions.

zoraster's scot vote feels more like 'Hey scumbuddy~ I'm voting for you, *nudge nudge wink wink*. You aren't in any danger of being lynched any time soon anyway and this will make people like Amished think I am bussing prematurely incase I die for some reason!'.

Agree with this.

Lynch scot, lynch don the next day = town victory yay! I think 4 is a safe number for scum in a 20 player game(or is it now? Not sure~). We got already got two, so yeah.

See you in a week or whenever I feel like posting in this slow game. D:

The game's slow because people aren't posting. It's a vicious cycle.

[The Fonz]

*If you think I'm trying to counterwagon

Scot

.

[inHimshallibe]

I struggled through some OMGUS issues with PE, but have held a solid town read on the playerslot.

My reread didn't tell me much that I hadn't already thought through before. The two scum we have lynched were pretty quiet, and zoraster's D1 attack on scot, followed by nothing on D2 seems like the best place to start. Follow scum to other scum, imo.

[Cove]

Fonz: The way I interpret what Vas was saying was that "don vote" means don's vote on me, not your vote on don.

Amished and nacho: Have you folks finished reading to the end of the thread? Assuming you're still looking to get away with your cryptic read on PE as your number one suspect, who are numbers 2 and 3? How opposed are you to lynching scot?

[The Fonz]

Cove: I see. Fair enough.

[Mr. Chaos]

Unvote
Vote: Cover

Scumtell in post #1 of PaltryExcuse. Lynch now.

Hang on bro, explain this to me.

This is PE's first post:

Hello everyone! So... I'm replacing for a person who hasn't posted. At all.

I'll get an analysis up tomorrow.

Now, I don't know what I may or may not be missing, but what here is the scumtell you are referring to?

It's kinda complicated, but trust me that it's a definite scumtell. In 5? applications it's caught scum 4 times (and I know what I did wrong the one time it was wrong.)

Ahahahahahahahha
Ahahaahhaahahaha

No. Explain. I'm not kidding around here, I will not follow this wagon if the only explanation you have is "it works."

FoS: Amished

Also, on reading through on PE, I'm really not loving that play slot right now. I'll look at scot and make a decision, hopefully within a couple days.

[Amished]

Ahh, perfect. Nacho, you can link to whatever you want to now, I wanted some reactions first.

First off, don_johnson looks town to me, Mr. Chaos (while weak) looks like a chainsawing buddy atm.

@Cove: I don't expect you to answer for his {PE's} actions, Mr. Cove; I expect you to DIE.

Anyways, explaining the scumtell (through an example that all of you should follow with for full effect)

You replace into a game. Size/length doesn't matter. You get a town-aligned role (PR/Vanilla doesn't matter either). What's your first instinct? Get to scumhunting, right? (RIGHT!) Heck, do you ever have any instinct or thought to check what your predecessor did at all? Of course not, since you know he (and you) are town aligned and whatever he did was with town intentions. Also, you know that townies can be wrong so you don't have to worry about changing a viewpoint or a stance on anybody and looking scummy because you can explain it. Therefore, you have ZERO reason to look at what your predecessor did, at all, ever. You might look for his thoughts since you know that he's town aligned but ultimately you believe in your ideas and scumhunting much moreso than anybody else's, even if you know that they're confirmed town.

Same scenario, but you get a scum role. You then have to worry about if you're under pressure, what did your predecessor say to become under pressure, you don't want to rock the boat too much and therefore you don't want to switch stances. All of this means that you look to your predecessor *first*. That's exactly what PE did by knowing that his predecessor didn't post at all.

There is ZERO/NONE/NADA/NILCH reason for any townie to look at their predecessor first and foremost. There *is* scum motivation. That makes it one of very very few true scumtells. I've done it as scum, ABR, Jazzmyn, xRECKONERx... I'm missing some here but that's some notable ones just off the top of my head.

For whomever asked: I'm currently at the top of page 26 in my readthrough, but I'll keep reading the rest of the game to fully flesh out the rest of the game's players for myself. However, that was all that I needed to see for me to cast a vote; and to ride that to lynch.

[Mr. Chaos]

Ahh, perfect. Nacho, you can link to whatever you want to now, I wanted some reactions first.

First off, don_johnson looks town to me, Mr. Chaos (while weak) looks like a chainsawing buddy atm.

@Cove: I don't expect you to answer for his {PE's} actions, Mr. Cove; I expect you to DIE.

Anyways, explaining the scumtell (through an example that all of you should follow with for full effect)

You replace into a game. Size/length doesn't matter. You get a town-aligned role (PR/Vanilla doesn't matter either). What's your first instinct? Get to scumhunting, right? (RIGHT!) Heck, do you ever have any instinct or thought to check what your predecessor did at all? Of course not, since you know he (and you) are town aligned and whatever he did was with town intentions. Also, you know that townies can be wrong so you don't have to worry about changing a viewpoint or a stance on anybody and looking scummy because you can explain it. Therefore, you have ZERO reason to look at what your predecessor did, at all, ever. You might look for his thoughts since you know that he's town aligned but ultimately you believe in your ideas and scumhunting much moreso than anybody else's, even if you know that they're confirmed town.

Same scenario, but you get a scum role. You then have to worry about if you're under pressure, what did your predecessor say to become under pressure, you don't want to rock the boat too much and therefore you don't want to switch stances. All of this means that you look to your predecessor *first*. That's exactly what PE did by knowing that his predecessor didn't post at all.

There is ZERO/NONE/NADA/NILCH reason for any townie to look at their predecessor first and foremost. There *is* scum motivation. That makes it one of very very few true scumtells. I've done it as scum, ABR, Jazzmyn, xRECKONERx... I'm missing some here but that's some notable ones just off the top of my head.

For whomever asked: I'm currently at the top of page 26 in my readthrough, but I'll keep reading the rest of the game to fully flesh out the rest of the game's players for myself. However, that was all that I needed to see for me to cast a vote; and to ride that to lynch.

Ohhhhh, I see. I'll need to remember this for the future.

Anyways, this is exactly what I wanted to know, which means I can, in good conscience,

Vote: Cove

Also, I'm not entirely sure how I'm looking like a chainsawing buddy. If you could just explain that too, that'd be cool.
[/b]

[farside22]

vote count:

don_johnson (1) Fonz
Scotmany (6) inHimshallibe, Anon, Cove, VasudeVa, RichardGHP, dahill
Cove (6) scotmany12, Yosairan, Amished, Nachomamma8, don_Johnson, Mr. Chaos

Not voting:

iamausername


With 14 alive it will take 8 to lynch
Deadline June 6th, 10:07pm PST

Prodding:

Anon

[Amished]

@Chaos: Unless I brainwashed Nacho somehow (not sure he has the requisite parts for that but (haha just kidding <3)) obviously this is a scumtell that works since he's said that he's seen it work twice. Therefore, it wasn't a "just trust me it works" scumtell since I've had to explain it before to other reluctant people since he knew exactly what I meant when I said it was in PE's first post. Your mischaracterization *and* the FoS sets you-scum up to attack me if my case isn't rock solid in defense of certain scum {Cove}. I mentioned that this is weak as there's only been one time I've been "attacked" for using this scumtell, which was by a scumbuddy of caught-scum (though we didn't lynch him that day ); but the attack was in a different manner from this. So it requires more research but you shot right up on my radar despite my town read of TSQ in the first 25 pages.

[Nachomamma8]

nacho: Have you folks finished reading to the end of the thread? Assuming you're still looking to get away with your cryptic read on PE as your number one suspect, who are numbers 2 and 3

I've done a little votecount analysis, haven't even started reading the game. My number two suspect is VV, but the list ends there. I am strongly opposed to a scot lynch.

[Anon]

For obvious reasons I much prefer a Cove lynch over a scot lynch.

Unvote Vote: Cove.

Claim plz.

[RichardGHP]

@iamusername: Why no vote?

[The Fonz]

@iamusername: Why no vote?

What the hell? Maybe because he flaked about a month ago?

@Nacho: Could you explain why you are

strongly

opposed to a scot lynch? I can see why you could find other people scummier, but I find it tricky to see how anyone could find scot especially

townish.

Likewise, Anon, what are the obvious reasons?

[Cove]

Claim: Vanilla

I think that "tell" is hardly a tell at all. Before I decide to replace into a game, the first thing I do is ISO the person I would be replacing to make sure I'm not replacing someone super scummy, and clearly flaked because they were under pressure.

The last game I replaced into, I replaced a cop-confirmed townie, and the first thing I said in thread was "I have finished an ISO on my predecessor, now getting into reading the entire thread". I find it hard to believe that you would put so much stock into this "tell", as it doesn't matter what your motivations are and what is better for you in the game, it is common curiosity to see who and what opinions you are replacing. It's hard to answer "why have I been left alive?" if you have no interest in what your predecessor said or did.

Amished: Scot and don are so clearly scum partners, it's sick that you won't look through the thread and see that. Without going back to check, you're replacing Dizzy right? That means you're probably town, and more than likely nacho is too (replacing mipe right?), so don decides that the time to vote me is after a few townies join my wagon, without giving any kind of reason for joining. That doesn't seem the least bit suspicious?

[The Fonz]

PLEASE, no-one hammer until dj finishes his much vaunted readthrough.

[don_johnson]

fonz: i'm getting there. i have a talent show and work today. this will be a priority for the weekend. if nacho and amished are town then we are in good hands, but i second 1269. there's plenty of time til deadline.

[dahill1]

Forgot to mention I'm VLA for the next few days

[dahill1]

What the fuck?? This wagon is terrible! That "tell" is stupid as hell. I always check the player slot I replace regardless of alignment. In fact, i've made posts like PE's opening one before AS TOWN. Both the don and mr chaos votes are pretty suspect too. This wagon is possibly the weakest I've ever seen

[scotmany12]

Regardless Hill, he claimed vanilla. There is no reason to keep a claimed vanilla alive unless it's an endgame scenario. While I agree that tell is extremely stupid, an Amished's vote on Cove is bad, we don't really have a choice now.

[The Fonz]

Shenanigans. You didn't apply the same logic to mipe when you found yourself in the same position dahill's in here. I also don't believe you're a lyncher of premature townie claimants. A vanilla claim shouldn't sway anyone off a wagon, but it isn't going to force someone who hates the wagon onto it.