NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[Midnight's Sorrow]

Because Vi, while adamant about him being scum, switched votes on a dime. It was hard to discern if he was being serious, or throwing everyone through a loop. That he was revealed town suggests to me otherwise, and thus I look at the Vi/Sevis tango in a more harsher light.

I refuse to throw away a night kill as possible evidence because of WIFOM tendencies. There is some truth in its silver linings, and I think we should look at this in a more, open, approach then what is being made today. I mean, GOD! we have some days to kill. We don't need to jump on every little thing and make big deals out of it. I say look at other avenues of scumminess, instead of focusing on one? I don;t think it would hurt. In fact, it would probably be far more beneficial right?

[Unsight]

I had a really strong town read from Vi, as did most other people. This is something worth looking into. We need to look at people who conflicted with him and who thought Vi was scummy.

@vezopiraka: That would be animorpherv1.

@Parama: We have to remember that

Vi got a strong town read from a lot of people here, especially me

who at one time consider him my strongest town read,

so no surprise he died

.

Tell me more about Vi's unsurprising demise.

[Unsight]

Because Vi, while adamant about him being scum, switched votes on a dime. It was hard to discern if he was being serious, or throwing everyone through a loop. That he was revealed town suggests to me otherwise, and thus I look at the Vi/Sevis tango in a more harsher light.

I refuse to throw away a night kill as possible evidence because of WIFOM tendencies. There is some truth in its silver linings, and I think we should look at this in a more, open, approach then what is being made today. I mean, GOD! we have some days to kill. We don't need to jump on every little thing and make big deals out of it. I say look at other avenues of scumminess, instead of focusing on one? I don;t think it would hurt. In fact, it would probably be far more beneficial right?

What about Sevis looks scummy after Vi's death but not before?

[Leafsnail]

Leaf:

Is the only thing you can do is vote people on

Kettle calls Pot Black

reasoning's?? You haven't been so hot either in the department that your accusing me of. Maybe you should ISO yourself before you start flying accusations off at a whim.

Actually, I have been making accusations and TRYING TO FIND SCUM.

You, on the other hand, have been attacking arguments and occasionally joining a bandwagon. Heck, even now you aren't seriously accusing me, are you? You're just trying to get me to go away.

I think I've said this before on this thread, (to you even! )but if I'm able to undermine

anything

, then the thing I'm undermining is faulty at best, and bs at the worst of times. Can't undermine something that has weight and credibility Both of which you have lacked in your 'attacks'

This is exactly the kindof thing I'm talking about.

[quote="Midnight's Sorrow]I didn't avoid any direct question that I could see. -scratches head- Oh are you talking about that question that asked what was the question? [/quote]
-.-

[quote="Midnight's Sorrow]To answer, I think the question should be, why someone is able to vote someone for shotty reasons, and expect anything that comes from such shoty reasons o make into a 'solid deal' I've said before in this thread too.

B.S only begets more B.S.

[/quote]
We better lynch you before it spreads, then.

If the shoe fits dear. Your deflection from your votes in D1 was being claimed as a mason by your mason buddy and later on to be a monk as well by your monk buddy.

Kettle calls Pot Black

in it's purest form here.

Dear god, this post makes me want to bash my head on a table. Being CONFIRMED AS TOWN is not deflecting.

Post 925, on the other hand, is pretty funny. He yells not to make big deals out of little things while telling us to start analysing nightkills. I mean, Jesus.

It's funny - you posted more content in the last 14 hours than you did in the entirety of day one. Sure, it's all BS deflecting content, but content nonetheless.

I wonder... if a bandwagon forms on you, will you continue to attack everyone voting you?

Incidentally, Midnight's Sorrow, who's scum and why?

[Unsight]

Other stuff: Unsight's been backgroundish. Also she's not a mason, I am, so therefore scum (note this is a joke due to previous games together)

Was too busy being backgroundish on Day 1 to reply but you totally replaced in just to say this didn't you?

Good question.

In other news

Vote SGRaaize

Why is no one else commenting on this?

SGR's sole contributions to Day 1 were trying to lynch the masons and asking if he was himself a dumbass.

@Faraday: What do you think of MS, SSBF, and LMP?

[Midnight's Sorrow]

I don't disagree with Lowell accusing Sevis tbh. I keep getting the impression of an experienced player holding way way way back.

Sevis is reaching into obvscum territory with his vote and FoS.

Interesting finds, both nhammen and Parama. Now that I re-read foilist's posts, he does seem to be rolefishing quite a bit: previously, I took this for him just trying to make sense of the game. I still don't get the feeling that he's scum, but I'm not too sure just yet.

Vezo really is contributing far less to the game than he could be, hinting at the role without any clarification only helps scum, as far as I can see.

The speed with which Chronopie jumped on the nhammen wagon does surprise me -- he seems to be hoping to put the focus away from him and thus be forgotten. This doesn't look like very pro-town play to me. I also have to agree that his attempts at rolefishing would cause more harm if they were successful (I see LMP's role and knowledge to currently be of more importance than vezo's).

FOS: Chronopie
Unvote; Vote: nhammen

Not only do you never mention anything about whether the nhammen wagon is good, you actually compliment and agree with him in the bolded.
Not a particularly intuitive way to put yourself ninth on the wagon... Especially since if you didn't know your vote was horrible, you didn't do it on purpose like someone fishing for reactions/pressure would... which means that you intended to lynch nhammen with this post as reasoning.

Unvote: nhammen
Vote: Sevis (L-12)

I'm fine with assuming nhammen-Town for the time being.

Yes, I was and still am not sure my reasoning is all too good. I agree with parts of the case nhammen built, but ``I still don't get the feeling that he's scum, but I'm not too sure just yet.''. nhammen has made me look at the situation from a new direction, but I didn't find that new perspective impressive enough to give me a town read on him. Thus, I saw the countercase presented by Parama and found it much more convincing. It was certainly better than the read I had on SGRaaize. I find that a wagon right now will probably not lead to a lynch, but will add a lot to the structure of the game, which will make it easier to take a look at everyone and understand the situation better. Thus: I did not and do not see my vote as making me `obvscum', but do see it having rather poor reasoning -- not the worst on the wagon, but of a lower standard than I would normally put out.

*words words words words*

While you did a good job of sounding intelligent here, what you said comes down to this.
"*I saw a huge wagon on nhammen, and while I agreed with him a lot I decided to jump on the hamwagon for <vague post facto reason>.
*This wagon is supposed to help find scum (when and if I choose to do it; now doesn't seem to be a good time) and "understand the situation better" (whatever that means).
*While my position on the wagon makes no sense, you should be looking at someone else who had worse reasoning because they are more likely to be scum.
*(Notice I still haven't said anything about why nhammen is scummy or why my vote is still on him, especially if I was allegedly just pressuring him.)"

Not buying it.

I didn't assume nhammen-Town based on Sevis-scum, if that's what you were trying to say. The Sevis vote was me moving on from someone I finally got a Town read on.

Sevis is continuing to reinforce my read that he's an experienced player sandbagging himself.

Since Sevis-scum doesn't seem very popular today I'll go ahead and give you what you asked for.
'Not sure if you as scum would go out of your way to stir up trouble like this, but I did say earlier that you were on the hatelist, so~

Unvote: Sevis
Vote: Leafsnail (L-12)

Sevis continues to make weak posts why are people letting him slip by etc. etc.

Unvote: Leafsnail
Vote: Timeater (L-12)
Because SSBF won't do it do it do it, and this wagon really needs to happen, and nobody wants to vote Sevis for some reason.

---
Also, while rereading I twitched again when I came to Sevis 605. Lame question + convenient target = contrived suspicion.

Finally someone who bothers to comment on my points, instead of simply calling me obvscum.

...

My comment on Midnight means that I clearly had the feeling there was something important (important, not necessarily scummy) about him, but that I couldn't figure out what it was again.

That's... less than helpful, given what "important" could be expected to mean.

I find that only targeting newer/VI players is a scumtell, yes.

He voted SSBF without stating any reason at all. His next vote, on daniel, had somewhat better reasoning, but he's kept it up for a rather long time without adding anything.

I don't think him missing the nhammen wagon was accidental: nhammen is a far more experienced player, not someone Dr. Robotnik would want to go up against.

First bolded: Oh, like you've been doing, right? (Sevis' vote record: daniel, SGRaaize, nhammen, Dr. Robotnik)
Second bolded: This would be the first time I've seen this argument in the context of ten other people voting nhammen, a handful of whom had worse/fewer reasons for voting than he would have. There's probably a good reason for that.

LMP, could you please name someone more suspicious, alphabetically up to nhammen? Chronopie is close due to rolefishing, lack of content in the early game, and his jump on the nhammen wagon.
Did you just tell LMP to unvote you and vote Chronopie? Laughing

Also, the fluff is that you're wasting your time complaining about people who are more likely than you to be Town.~

Unvote: Timeater
Vote: Sevis (L-11)

Yes, my attacks are entirely hypocritical, and the only reason I'm not targeting myself is because I know my own alignment. Would you suggest I target nobody at all?

As long as you agree that what I've been saying is entirely legitimate and your defense is a ridiculous rhetorical question, I'll be fine with my vote~

Haven't you been able to read the thread and find people who have been scummy who also haven't been the people that everyone else has been looking at?~

---

@Vi: You bring up legitimate points, but you move your vote around so much it's hard for me to take it seriously. Do you actually want everyone you've voted for lynched?

vezo - yes at the time; not now
LynchMePlz - yes at the time; not now
SGRaaize - yes at the time; probably now
Dr. Robotnik - maybe at the time; now not sure
nhammen - yes at the time; probably not now

Sevis - yes at the time; yes now

nhammen - sure at the time; probably not now although I'd hate to see him drop off the radar entirely

Sevis - yes at the time; yes now

Leafsnail - undecided at the time; not particularly now
Timeater - yes at the time; yes now

more Sevis - more yes etc.

This post I bolded for emphasis^

A lot of vote changes but Vi always went back to Sevis. It wa a tug f war And honestly it was kinda confusing. But now that I know with out a doubt that Vi is town, he starts to make a lot more sense. Sevis wagon wasn't going anywhere most of the time, but in the end Vi just stuck his vote on him anyways. Still....getting WIFOM about this as I read them again, but it's still something to look at.

[Midnight's Sorrow]

It's funny - you posted more content in the last 14 hours than you did in the entirety of day one. Sure, it's all BS deflecting content, but content nonetheless.

I usually post more content in huge games like this starting D-2 anyways, more shit to look at, and night kills to analysis. Also, its a very good week for me

Incidentally, Midnight's Sorrow, who's scum and why?

Sevis of course, if you've actually read what I've been posting ^^

[Timeater]

oh look, a wagon.

Vote: Midnight's Sorrow

doopdedoopdedoo

[Midnight's Sorrow]

^

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Timeater: There are legitimate reasons for suspecting Midnight's Sorrow and placing a vote on him. This isn't one of them.

And before I forget,

HoS: Timeater

.

@Unsight: Vi had a town read from most people here, with a few exception (You for example). As a matter of fact, he was generally considered the strongest townie. Everyone saw this coming, not just Mafioso members.

[Leafsnail]

Sevis of course, if you've actually read what I've been posting ^^

Who else?

And why didn't you mention all the scum you said you had on your bandwagon?

[Midnight's Sorrow]

@Timeater: There are legitimate reasons for suspecting Midnight's Sorrow and placing a vote on him. This isn't one of them.

Really?

There are??

All I'm getting is a case that could apply to more then just me, and yet I'm the only one getting heat for it? The others are just expansions on that claim I fail to see the 'legitimacy" in most of them.

I'm loving how some of you seem to think

Lot's of content=Townie by proxy

This is WIFOM tbqh. Scum can just as well post uber amounts of content as much a townie can, this does not make them sound however We should probably look hard at those that seem to be trying hard as well as those that arn't posting much.~

[Midnight's Sorrow]

Who else?

Vi also said some great things about you as well too yo~ In fact two of his vote changes went to you~ I can bring those posts up if you want~

Time eater too. He seems to like bandwaggoning a lot with no reason at all but to just bandwagon. Vi also had suspicions here.

And why didn't you mention all the scum you said you had on your bandwagon?

Because if I said Ves and Mr Verbose(SSBF) were the ones I thought was town...wouldn't common sense say that I had a scum or neutral read on the others??

Really?

[Lowell]

This wagon is good.

vote midnight

. His defense/reaction is uninspiring, and looks very much like scum caught for a "stupid" reason, and thus pissed off.

That said, I actually agree with MS on

fos sevis

. In iso he reads horribly.

[Timeater]

chugga chugga chugga chooo choooooooooo

[Dr. Robotnik]

Chrono hasn't put up a good defense, and he's digging a deeper hole, trying to claim that more than half his wagon is scummy. Vannilia town? Maybe. We'll see.

Vote:Chronopie

Did you actually think chronopie was scum when you hammered him? If so, roughly how sure were you of this?

Before I read anything else, I'll address this. When I hammered him, I actually did believe he looked guilty. Obviously I wasn't a 100% sure, but I definitely thought he could be scum. Out of all the candidates that had surfaced for the day, he was by far the most suspicious. So while I regret the mistake, the reasons to kill him were justifiable

[Midnight's Sorrow]

This wagon is founded on stupid. Is stupid good for you Lowell??

If you agree with me about Sevis...then why are you not voting him??

I'm seriously getting the gut feeling my wagon started

because

I voted Sevis, being the first one to notice Vi's adamant attacks on Sevis in D-1 and bringing it up. Reasons that seem like the grasping of straws, and

very

convenient~

[Dr. Robotnik]

Ok, after reading back, I do find Midnight's defense rather weak, but don't see it as a reason to kill him, especially because his case against Sevis actually makes sense.

I'm

Voting:Timeater

for not even

bothering

to try and justify his vote (heck, his fellow bandwagoner SSBF called him out on it)

[Midnight's Sorrow]

Ok...answer me this riddle everyone.

In what world does a defense against stupid need to be anything other then weak? A 'weak' ( I'm every time I see that) defense should be all that is needed.

I mean what?? Why strain myself at making a 'strong' defense, when a weak one should suffice?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Really?

There are??

I can think of three:
1. You posted a LOT of fluff. Most of your posts don't really contribute to much of anything. Prove to me that the majority of your posts have actually contributed to the game.

2. You're currently being very, very defensive. Most of your posts can ben summed up as "I am not scum, stop attacking me!".

3. Making promises, but not really fufilling them. Your first promise said you would contribute a lot more, but most of these posts have been fluffs. You promised HUGE contribution during Day 2. Please make due, I will be watching you.

[Midnight's Sorrow]

SSBF:



Im so sorry that I rarely make big wall posts like you do. Im sorry that I sometimes feel that only a few lines, and maybe a few paragraphs are all that's needed sometimes. I'm sorry I don't scum hunt the same way you do. I can't believe what I was thinking trying to be an individual in here and make my own way in this low some world. I'm sorry that have to defend my self from the great onslaught of stupid that is my wagon, I'm so lost a to what to do, your post made me smile~ Im sorry that my contribution is not good enough for you. I bow to you good sir

[Leafsnail]

We should probably look hard at those that seem to be trying hard as well as those that arn't posting much.~

Quoted for motherfucking truth.

Vi also said some great things about you as well too yo~ Razz In fact two of his vote changes went to you~ I can bring those posts up if you want~

Firstly, stop blindly following Vi.

Secondly, he later said he wasn't sure about me. So you'll have to make up your own mind, yes?

Because if I said Ves and Mr Verbose(SSBF) were the ones I thought was town...wouldn't common sense say that I had a scum or neutral read on the others??

The way you attack everyone on your wagon implies it.

If you agree with me about Sevis...then why are you not voting him??

-.-

I'm seriously getting the gut feeling my wagon started because I voted Sevis, being the first one to notice Vi's adamant attacks on Sevis in D-1 and bringing it up. Reasons that seem like the grasping of straws, and very convenient~

No. Your wagon started because of your constant active lurking and bandwagon jumping. Your deflection and undermining of all attackers helped it continue.

Im so sorry that I rarely make big wall posts like you do. Im sorry that I sometimes feel that only a few lines, and maybe a few paragraphs are all that's needed sometimes. I'm sorry I don't scum hunt the same way you do. I can't believe what I was thinking trying to be an individual in here and make my own way in this low some world. I'm sorry that have to defend my self from the great onslaught of stupid that is my wagon, I'm so lost a to what to do, your post made me smile~ Im sorry that my contribution is not good enough for you. I bow to you good sir Sad

I'm sorry that you received a scum aligned role pm.

Now die.

[Midnight's Sorrow]

And pray tell me now Leaf. How is what your doing now scumhunting? Your tunneling pure and simple. You don't even seem all that bothered with trying to find scum else where. As long as you get rid of your annoyance right?

I'm kinda sorry that you seem so sure that I'm scum for such fail reasons that you conveniently made of me. I'm kinda sorry as well that you seem to have been fishing for "better" reasons to be voting me. And I'm kinda sorry that I'm gonna call you out for if I get lynched today. Its not gonna look good for you.~

And as for the Vi thing. I'm simply analyzing what he said about people. He was town. So his words should hold useful for something. I mean....I don't think he kicked the bucket for no reason at all.~ And yeah, I can most certainly make my own assumptions. I'm not as dumb as you make me out to be

[Leafsnail]

And pray tell me now Leaf. How is what your doing now scumhunting? Your tunneling pure and simple. You don't even seem all that bothered with trying to find scum else where. As long as you get rid of your annoyance right?

Half of the battle is scumhunting.

The other half is making sure the scum you find dangles from the end of a rope.

I'm kinda sorry that you seem so sure that I'm scum for such fail reasons that you conveniently made of me. I'm kinda sorry as well that you seem to have been fishing for "better" reasons to be voting me. And I'm kinda sorry that I'm gonna call you out for if I get lynched today. Its not gonna look good for you.~

Nice AtE. I like the way you say all this while not even voting me.

I don't need to "fish" for reasons - all of your posts are throwing them out by the barrelfull.

You seem to be torn between calling me scum and the realization that I'm not gonna let you wriggle out of the noose this easily.

And as for the Vi thing. I'm simply analyzing what he said about people. He was town. So his words should hold useful for something. I mean....I don't think he kicked the bucket for no reason at all.~ And yeah, I can most certainly make my own assumptions. I'm not as dumb as you make me out to be

So give your own reasons for your suspicions. Especially on Sevis.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF:



Im so sorry that I rarely make big wall posts like you do. Im sorry that I sometimes feel that only a few lines, and maybe a few paragraphs are all that's needed sometimes. I'm sorry I don't scum hunt the same way you do. I can't believe what I was thinking trying to be an individual in here and make my own way in this low some world. I'm sorry that have to defend my self from the great onslaught of stupid that is my wagon, I'm so lost a to what to do, your post made me smile~ Im sorry that my contribution is not good enough for you. I bow to you good sir

Sarcastic or not, that way one big Appeal To Emotion. I'm LOLing that you're failing so hard.