Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[Amished]

Ok, so more fleshed out thoughts (from a sleep deprived rambling ... I don't even know what to call myself):

I don't see why The Fonz was killed; but it wasn't from the scumteam since they're murderers and slashed people throughout the nights prior. Cove was an even night murderer, so they should've been able to kill last night.

Also, since Shanba (the odd night vig) was killed N2; I don't see how a pro-town killing role for an odd night would still be alive. Mods (especially after 2 nights) kinda know the flavor behind the various kills works which is why I'm confused about The Fonz as I didn't think he was super scummy (which would constitute a pro-town kill) nor was he really obv-town up to my point in my readthrough nor through the period after I replaced in (which would constitute an anti-town kill).

Overall I'd say that it's from a pro-town player, but I'm disappointed in you that you didn't follow me saying that dahill was the one that attacked me like I was attacked in another game when I applied that tell.

Hell, The Fonz's response to Anon's request for doc protection pretty much meant (to me) that he wasn't a power role which still lends credence to the thought that it was a pro-town kill.

I also don't support a scotmany lynch in any way shape or form after yesterday. Don't even start that shit. dahill just seems to be the best way to go today.

[Mr. Chaos]

Ok, so more fleshed out thoughts (from a sleep deprived rambling ... I don't even know what to call myself):

I don't see why The Fonz was killed; but it wasn't from the scumteam since they're murderers and slashed people throughout the nights prior. Cove was an even night murderer, so they should've been able to kill last night.

Also, since Shanba (the odd night vig) was killed N2; I don't see how a pro-town killing role for an odd night would still be alive. Mods (especially after 2 nights) kinda know the flavor behind the various kills works which is why I'm confused about The Fonz as I didn't think he was super scummy (which would constitute a pro-town kill) nor was he really obv-town up to my point in my readthrough nor through the period after I replaced in (which would constitute an anti-town kill).

Overall I'd say that it's from a pro-town player, but I'm disappointed in you that you didn't follow me saying that dahill was the one that attacked me like I was attacked in another game when I applied that tell.

Hell, The Fonz's response to Anon's request for doc protection pretty much meant (to me) that he wasn't a power role which still lends credence to the thought that it was a pro-town kill.

I also don't support a scotmany lynch in any way shape or form after yesterday. Don't even start that shit. dahill just seems to be the best way to go today.

I dunno, might just be a SK we have to contend with still. Although, then it really wouldn't make sense to have only an even night killing role for scumteam....

Well, lets worry about that later. I do agree that dahill needs some pressure, his plays d2 and d3 looked alot like active-lurkiness, and he really hasn't contributed much.

Vote: Dahill

[don_johnson]

i don't remember anything by dahill. is he a replacement? anyway, continuing to read.

[dahill1]

Okay so I was wrong about Cove, but he was a Serial Killer..not mafia. So how does that make me scum? I still support a Scot lynch since Cove being a SK doesn't change much on him. Amished how does yesterday affect your stance on Scot? And I disagree on Fonz's kill I think it is very likely from an anti-town killer. Fonz was an extremely helpful protown player, led some scum lynches, and looked like he was headed for some more so why not kill him?

So please everyone voting for me tell me..what exactly is the case on me? That I wanted Scot lynched over Cove?

vote Scot

[dahill1]

Oops from the death scene I had got that Cove was a SK. Looks like the first page says he was mafia. I'm gonna have to do a lot of rethinking

[scotmany12]

10. Cove

PaltryExcuse

Chevre

-

Even Night Mafia Murderer

- Devoured (lynched) day 3

Doesn't look like SK to me dahill...

[Amished]

@dahill: You chainsawed me for Cove, and there's not really a big reason to suspect an SK in this setup from the roles that have been lost. Also, if you really think that on any single day you believe that both end wagons are on scum you go right ahead. I refuse to believe that Scot is scum with Cove just due to them both being wagoned so heavily.

Now you're continuing something that makes absolutely no sense for scum, and trying to posture that Fonz was onto something when I already told you that it made less sense for scum to kill him than town.

[Yosarian2]

Now you're continuing something that makes absolutely no sense for scum, and trying to posture that Fonz was onto something when I already told you that it made less sense for scum to kill him than town.

You seem oddly sure of that, Amished, even though there wasn't really any suspicion of Fonz at any point (I just checked every single mod votecount, and I don't see any point where anyone voted Fonz at all all game), and I can't imagine any reason why any pro-town person would want him dead. The assumption on your part that the killer of Fonz was pro-town seems very odd to me. Do you know something I don't?

[Amished]

@Yos: Not really. But he was an active, weak defender of Cove and was on the opposite wagon; both of which are "standard" (read: stupid) scumbuddy tells. With Anon claiming even night vig (and pointing it out) he wouldn't be available to be lynched and would hold a pro-town killing role in his hand for a night when the scum (assumedly) wouldn't have a NK with Cove's flip.

Going after somebody that would generally be a questionable for most reasonable towns (his "defending" wouldn't help him) over a PR doesn't seem like good scum play in my eyes.

Besides, there's the whole NK-flavor thing going for me too (murderers tend to slice, while vigs shoot; Fonz was shot)

Finally, me leading a wagon that was L-6? to a lynch based on one scumtell seems like I'd be a pretty good candidate for a scumkill too; much more dangerous than Fonz. There's just much more "juicy" targets for scum that almost certainly lost a NK'ing player for the next night than somebody like him. I give him credit as he's a good player, but the circumstances of the game as I understand them don't really add up to him being a scum kill in my eyes.

[Amished]

Mod: I'll be V/LA until Monday

[dahill1]

@dahill: You chainsawed me for Cove

You say this yet you also said this of Fonz: "he was an active, weak defender of Cove and was on the opposite wagon; both of which are "standard" (read: stupid) scumbuddy tells". Now that doesn't make much sense that you're using that same "stupid" tell on me.

Now you're continuing something that makes absolutely no sense for scum, and trying to posture that Fonz was onto something when I already told you that it made less sense for scum to kill him than town.

Well obviously I think Fonz was onto something because I think that scot is scum and I disagree with you that a pro-town player killed Fonz.

[inHimshallibe]

Good call. I feel much better about Yos now.

[Amished]

Defending and attacking an attacker are two different things. Fonz said that he thought Cove was town. You attacked my tell that was against your scumbuddy.

What say you to 1308?

[dahill1]

Defending and attacking an attacker are two different things. Fonz said that he thought Cove was town. You attacked my tell that was against your scumbuddy.

What say you to 1308?

Eh I was getting some town reads for Cove too. And yeah I attacked your tell because it was a big pile of bullshit, I still think that.

1308 seems like your ego's getting a little inflated over this wonderful tell of yours and disregarding Fonz's past actions. I don't think ksun would've been lynched at all had it not been for him. Ever since his replacement I've been getting consistent strong town reads and I wouldn't be surprised if scum thought similarly.

[inHimshallibe]

dahill just flat-out isn't scum, and I'm suspicious of those that are trying to run him up. Will post more tonight.

[Amished]

Fine, continue to argue with results and human psychology.

I haven't caught up overnight (didn't make any effort to) but from what I saw since I replaced in he wasn't terribly townie. What say you to my other bits of logic?

Alive pro-town NK-er that won't get lynched, mod flavor, any of that? Nothing convinces you that Fonz was NK'd by another townie (or somebody wanting to be townie)? What happened to the slashing NK then? How about that we have had vigs and they've *shot* people just like what happened to The Fonz in the day opener? How about that the scum would know that their kill has a different flavor so they wouldn't try to blend in because they couldn't?

[Amished]

dahill just flat-out isn't scum, and I'm suspicious of those that are trying to run him up. Will post more tonight.

Oh bullshit. You really think he can be this blind as town?

2 options that I see:

Town (must be absolutely, hopelessly lost in the game due to several reasons)
Scum (has a position to defend so that he doesn't get lynched for flipflopping)

You tell me which is more likely.

[VasudeVa]

I don't get why attacking the tell is suddenly chainsaw defense. Although, the fact that he was vehement about it even after the claim warrants a vote.

Vote: Dahill

[Amished]

@VV: Attacking the attacker. He couldn't really attack me for anything else I said since that was my entire contribution to the game at that point replacing in. Also, he attacked it in the same way Zorblag attacked in when I called out xRx in Friends and Enemies.

That's the majority of why I feel he's scum.

[Amished]

(12 alive, 7 to lynch)
Nacho, Amish, Chaos, VV is on dahill atm in my unofficial VC

[RichardGHP]

Let's see where this takes us. I'd say there isn't more than 1 or 2 scum left, so we can afford the mislynch. And since this is where the town seems to be going...

Vote: dahill

[Yosarian2]

@Yos: Not really. But he was an active, weak defender of Cove and was on the opposite wagon; both of which are "standard" (read: stupid) scumbuddy tells.

Meh. He also attacked PE pretty strongly before he was replaced by Cove.

Basically, I just have trouble thinking any vig would kill Fonz without ever voting for him or expression suspcion on him at all at any point in the game, and as far as I can see, NO ONE has expressed suspicion on Fonz at any point in the game. Which also makes him a logical scumkill.

Besides, there's the whole NK-flavor thing going for me too (murderers tend to slice, while vigs shoot; Fonz was shot)

Eh. I'm kind of thinking we might be dealing with an even-night-mafia killer and an odd-night-mafia-killer. They may or may not have had the same kill method. We lynched the even night mafia killer. However, last night was an odd night.

Meanwhile, the pro-town town odd night vig is already dead. I kind of doubt that there's two pro-town people who can both vig on odd nights; there might be an odd-night vig and an even night vig, but if someone dies on an odd night, it's probably some kind of anti-town killing role.

Finally, me leading a wagon that was L-6? to a lynch based on one scumtell seems like I'd be a pretty good candidate for a scumkill too; much more dangerous than Fonz. There's just much more "juicy" targets for scum that almost certainly lost a NK'ing player for the next night than somebody like him. I give him credit as he's a good player, but the circumstances of the game as I understand them don't really add up to him being a scum kill in my eyes.

(shrug) It just seems like an odd assumption to jump to. He's a good player, he's never been suspected (someone who's "unlynchable" is always a good scum kill). Perhaps the scum thought he was a power role. Or perhaps they thought he was going to start a wagon on one of them today. Or they might have just thought he wouldn't be someone they could ever lynch.

[scotmany12]

@VV: Attacking the attacker. He couldn't really attack me for anything else I said since that was my entire contribution to the game at that point replacing in. Also, he attacked it in the same way Zorblag attacked in when I called out xRx in Friends and Enemies.

That's the majority of why I feel he's scum.

Attacking the validity of your case is not chainsaw defense. Dahill felt your tell thing was bs, so he attacked it. Get over yourself.

[farside22]

vote count:

Dahill (5) Nachomamma, Amished, Mr. Chaos, VasudeVa, RichardGHP
Scot (1) Dahill

not voting:

iamausername
Don_Johnson
Scotmany
Anon
Yosarian2
inHimshallibe

With 12 alive it will take 7 to lynch
Deadline June 24th, 6:00pm PST

[RichardGHP]

scotmany, for once, is correct.