Open 219: Neighborhood Watch (Game Over)

[Empking]

Vote Count

ConfidAnon (4) - Beloved Princess, Thief, guy0, Sleepless Assassin
Sleepless Assassin (2) - ConfidAnon, Empking
Pomegranate (1) - don_johnson
Beloved Princess (1) - Primate
Primate (1) - Pomegranate

With

9

players alive, it takes

5

votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is

Wednesday, June 9, 2010 at 6:40:00 PM CDT

.
If no player is lynched by that time, a no lynch will occur.

I'll let Primate respond to BP and then I'll hammer.

[Primate]

Cheers Emp. I am here and won't be long.

[Primate]

Right. Not done Thief,guy0 or me for obvious reasons.

I understand that you haven't done yourself, but I'd like to know how you feel your play is in this game, as well as how you're perceived, and why. It doesn't have to be a big long post or anything, but I want something clear.

My plays been fine with the exception of me being wrong about Chronopie and me not being as active as I could have been, which are both fair criticisms. I'm not going to pretend your inability to read me is my fault if you think I'm scummy.

Alright then Beloved Princess, I'll bite.

Confidanon has 4 votes currently, yours, Guys, Thiefs and SA's.

BP, the reasoning for yours is awful.

I'm going to take a stand as devil's advocate here and vote: ConfidAnon. I said yesterday that one of the people not voting at a certain time was scum. And since OF is dead, we know that person is ConfidAnon.

This is not true. This is a lie. That could be a plausible misunderstanding from a townie, but as a scumtell, this is absolutely not true. Scum don't hammer when someone is at -1 on day 1 because then they will just get run up day 2 for not even giving the guy a chance to claim before lynch, and it certainly isn't the no-brainer you fallaciously attribute it to being.

That's it, all you've stated in the thread. You've hopped on this wagon and ridden it, abusing the fact that everyone else isn't really explaining what they are doing as well, the only other thing you've brought up against him is his lurking, which is fair enough, and you can't really argue against, massively unreliable though it is.

Guy0's Rationale!

wow Thief I'm really glad I hid behind you. you have really embraced your confirmedness. For that reason:

Vote: Confidanon

Thats it! Nothing at all else in the game thread.

SA's Rationale!

Why ask permission.

Unvote, Vote Confid

See how easy that was?

You could have gained town points by bussing sooner ya' know.

Thats it! Nothing at all else in the game thread. They have an argument a bit earlier, but this is SAs only stated reason for voting.

Thiefs Rationale!

Confid, as confirmed town I command you to unvote Sleepless Assassin. I don't want someone at L-1 with so many V/LAs and people who haven't posted yet.

This bothers me. Trying to cast doubt on a cleared townie seems like a scummy action to take.

Is also a horrible reason to vote put someone at L-1.


You putting him at L-1 while saying "well I'll get to Primate later tonight" rings of distancing in my mind while trying to force another claim out of town.

Unvote:
Vote: ConfidAnon

Facetiousness aside this is fair. It was a poor reason to put him on -1. My rebuttal here, and that it's unlikely we'll get him back to confirm/deny it, but that's life, is that he had been voting and suspicious of SA the day before, so that reason he stated, whilst the only one in that post, it's wrong to assume it was the only one total. Night doesn't make you forget the suspicions from the previous day. Voting based on distancing before one of them comes up scum is a silly thing to rely on because it's incredibly hard to figure out (If you can't figure it out easily when on of them is dead why would be you be able to figure it out if they are both alive? )

PS: Also I am not scum and neithers Confidanon. I'm not arguing against this wagon properly because there's not really there that can be argued against. I've got nothing against gut play and concise posts, but I do think the town play suffers when everyone in the game is doing it.

BP Case Coming

[Primate]

BP's post history for reference. Going to ignore posts #15, #17, #111, #208 because they aren't game relevant. Don't mind debating if she disagrees.

All this talk about power roles is bad for the soul~.

Let's lynch scum instead.

Unvote, vote: guy0.
His talks of being thorough without doing any scumhunting do not make me believe he has honest intentions in this game.

Pomegranate, why you don't like me? Are you sure you don't want to get to know each other a little better before making a judgment like that?~

Perhaps the reason that I don't seem to be doing active scumhunting is because we're on page 2 with the bulk of posts being either about random voting, or what to do about the hider. What I'm trying to do is move the discussion forward so that scumhunting can actually begin

That's not an excuse~.

I meant to say that we should play some jump rope and hopscotch together.

I was thinking something along the lines of a candlelit dinner on the beach, with a mariachi playing just for us.
But if you want to play hopscotch, that's fun too.

That Thief guy sounds pretty cool~. He also sounds pretty town~.

It's interesting how quickly this wagon has moved~

It seems as though one of the people not voting (ConfidAnon and OpposedForce) are scum.

Chronopie: What is your opinion on Guy0?

Unvote; Vote ConfidAnon

Unvote

[18:29~33] <KittyMo> It was the lack of content that made me push for a claim. Lurking is anti-town. etc. etc.

[18:29~33] <KittyMo> I find it incredibly interesting that you put someone to L-1 and asked for a claim

on Page 5

without even mentioning what you thought of guy0. Definitely would like to hear more about your thought process in as much detail as possible~

Can we please go a little slower? The thread has been open for what, three days? And we have yet another person at L-1?

You think I've been bussing Pom for no reason?

This looks like a major scumslip.

This bothers me. Trying to cast doubt on a cleared townie seems like a scummy action to take.

It's not.

I'm going to take a stand as devil's advocate here and

vote: ConfidAnon.

I said yesterday that one of the people not voting at a certain time was scum. And since OF is dead, we know that person is ConfidAnon.

BP: Why do you want it slower?
Why did one of OF or CA have to be scum?

Yesterday ended sooner than I would've liked. I don't want a repeat~

I've found that not voting is a scumtell. I often see when there's only a couple people not voting, one is scum, but it's usually no more than one. That's what brought me to Confid, anyways. I'd really like more information out of him~

Thief & guy -- If you look back at the guy0 wagon, how many scum do you think were likely to be on that? There are only 2 potential scum (don_johnson & Empking.) My guess right now is probably one or none. Your thoughts?~

Well ConfidAnon, I believe this is the part where we strangle you~.
Primate is looking really bad by lurking and coasting after that big post. He seems to have a town read on Confid, yet doesn't defend him or push for my lynch (since that's who he's voting). I'd say Primate has a good chance of being scum, especially if Confid flips town~.

WHOA!
Now that's a good post. How many hours did you put into that post, ConfidAnon? <-- Serious question by the way.

Basically, I really like the post that Plum made when she was pretending to be Pomegranate. I don't think that scum would make that post.

Or maybe I'm just confusing the warm and fuzzy feelings of love with the warm and fuzzy feelings of towniness.

Well ConfidAnon, I believe this is the part where we strangle you~.
Primate is looking really bad by lurking and coasting after that big post. He seems to have a town read on Confid, yet doesn't defend him or push for my lynch (since that's who he's voting). I'd say Primate has a good chance of being scum, especially if Confid flips town~.

[Primate]

Quick interjection here because I've just noticed something.

It's interesting how quickly this wagon has moved~

It seems as though one of the people not voting (ConfidAnon and OpposedForce) are scum.

Chronopie: What is your opinion on Guy0?

Unvote; Vote ConfidAnon

This is absolute bollocks. They were both voting for Sleepless Assassin. Guy0 was the only one not voting.

I don't think it's a lie, neither scum nor town would try to pull off something this blatant. It must just be a retarded mistake. (One that invalidates BPs main reason to stay on the wagon maybe? Nah, she'll stay like a good scum.)

[Primate]

BP has made 14 posts this game. This is the lowest of any living player and beaten by dead players. With non game relevant's ignored that's 10.

In her first post on page 2, she votes for Guy0 for being thorough without doing scumhunting, for his actions in the first one and a half pages. Her reasons are interesting for two reasons, firstly that absolutely no one had done any scumhunting at that point, with the possible exceptions of Pom and Empking, and secondly because the topic being discussed had been discussed in more depth by other players, notably me and D_J, and Chrono and Pom had a least discussed it as much as Guy0. Which begs the question as to why he was picked from a crop of very similar players. Two obvious things are notable about Guy0 in this context. Firstly that Empking had just switched onto him, one of the first proper indicators of suspicion in the game so far, secondly that he has the lowest post count of any of the players there.

When Guy0 points out that there isn't really much to go on, again bearing in mind that at the time BP called him on it, there had only been a page and half of posts, including RVS, he gets not "thats no excuse" a pretty poor platitude if ever there was one.

Now, bear in mind that she is currently voting someone for not doing adequate scumhunting. The first two posts above are her only posts for a week.

When she comes back, she leaves the Guy0 wagon for unexplained reasons, and moves onto Confidanon on the logic that as Confidanon and Opposedforce are both not voting, one or the other must be scum. Now, aside from the fact that this is absolute bollocks and they are both in fact voting for SA at the time, which is such a retarded mistake I must assume it's genuine. And also aside from the fact that the reason itself is bollocks, and when called on it (later) she responds with nothing more than I've seen it before, without even trying to explain why it is a common behavior of scum.

Aside from those two things, the acknowledgment of the speed of the wagon and actions around it are interesting because it shows that she is aware that the wagon is 'interesting' without stating exactly why it is interesting. This could mean two things (again with the two), it implies that she is thinking about the game without actually saying what she is thinking about, thus being an incredibly easy thing for someone to say just to generate content to pad out a post in which someone she might be doing something she percieves as dangerous without stating reasoning somewhere else, the percieved demand of the reader for information as to why she is voting for Confidanon allayed slightly by the assurance she is thinking about it. The second thing, and I think the more likely one, is that the interesting comment is actually a synonym for dangerous here, and the speed of the wagon made BP uneasy, moving off it to someone who hadn't been incredibly active and no other players had really commented on (this was why I picked him when I asked guy that question).

Not really much to the next post. It pretty much parrots the opinion of thief but you emphasized a word.

Was completely inactive during the Chrono wagon so we don't know what she thought about it. This is obviously a real shame, but given her inactivity throughout the game it may be too cynical to look into this specifically as a bad time for her not to be here.

Day 2. She accuses SA of a major scumslip and doesn't really make a move against him. Fairly standard fueling the wagon of the bandwagon leader whilst not actually putting a vote on, putting something on the page that people will agree to without doing much to commit to it.

Also here she makes the comment "I'm going to take a stand as devil's advocate here". This shows the fact that apprehensive enough about moving against the percieved will of the town (confid had no votes, SA had loads), that she feels the need to explain away the fact that she is doing so instead of just doing it. This attempt to get 'ahead' of arguments against her also shows that she is aware that her argument may be percieved as weak, which obviously begs the question as to why she is making it in the first place.

Her next post explains the logic behind the not voting thing. I think its utter tripe and he explanations of it have been terrible, just saying "trust me, I've seen it before", not putting anything down in the post that anyone can disagree with at a proper level, only just agreeing to disagree because we don't have her experience in the games she's seen it, and of course, because she's an alt, we wont be able to ask her which games those are because she wont want to out games she's played in. (If I'm wrong about this I apologise, please do so if you want to.) It also mixes the message from the previous post, whilst before she knew that confide was scum, now she is awaiting more information from him.

Nothing particularly wrong with the next post. If BP comes up scum it incriminates Pom in a fairly obvious way, but deal with that if it happens. It's not even remotely subtle enough to be a legitimate tie, so it'll require some fairly good thinking through.

Next post is probably fair enough in context. Confidanon didn't deliver there.

And that last post of yours was the most obvious attempt to set up a second mislynch after the mislynch of Confidanon I have ever seen. Fuck that. If the town lynches me over you it's retarded.

[Primate]

I'm done, emp, do whatever. I'd like BP to respond, your call.

[Primate]

PS: We still have a couple of days before deadline. If you unvote now we aren't even remotely in a hurry to lynch and have plenty of time to run up BP, so don't feel rushed. You have my lynch me if I lie guarantee I will vote confid at deadline to ensure a lynch.

[Thief]

We are NOT lynching BP today.

Confid, Primate, or Empking.

Take your pick.

Confid already claimed VT just go ahead and hammer.

[Pomegranate]

As a matter of fact, I will.

Unvote; Vote: ConfidAnon

.

[Beloved Princess]

The funny thing is that I might have actually considered reading that case of yours if you didn't have to be poked and prodded by me to provide it, Primate. As it is, I'm wondering why you've waited until two days before the deadline to write this case when you've had your vote on me for the past week.

[Gayle]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

ConfidAnon (5) - Beloved Princess, Thief, guy0, Sleepless Assassin, Pomegranate

Sleepless Assassin (2) - ConfidAnon, Empking
Pomegranate (1) - don_johnson
Beloved Princess (1) - Primate

Flavor got held up by homeland security

ConfidAnon,

Mafia Goon

, has been lynched!

Night 2

has begun!
The deadline for night actions is

Wednesday, June 9, 2010 at 7:00:00 PM CDT

.
If you have a night action and I do not receive a PM from you before that time, you will not take action during the night.

[Gayle]

Flavor was selected as a finalist for ANTM and is currently unavailable.

Thief,

Town Watcher

, has been killed.

Day 3 has begun!

The deadline for Day 3 is

Wednesday, June 23, 2010 at 2:19:00 PM CDT.

If no player is lynched by that time, a no lynch will occur.

With

7

players alive, it takes

4

votes to lynch.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Guy, who'd you hide behind?

Vote Pomegranate

The hammer and sidestepping the wagon combined with Confid's scumflip make me more confident than ever that Pom is scum.

Also, I'm confirming that if I'm the other watcher, I didn't watch Theif. Everyone else should say this before we lynch today unless they have a guilty.

[guy0]

The watcher better have watched thief. Meaning that they also likely watched OP the night he was killed before if they knew what they were doing.

Since Thief is dead (which should cofirm my hiderness if that was ever an issue), I'll have to assume the role of the confirmed town who talks too much.

I don't know why we aren't just lynching primate right now. He clearly tried to save confid, who flipped scum a little too much, and he was suspicious from the start. He also tried to pull off the last minute wagon on BP, but failed miserably.

Based off of what I know right now, of the 7 players remaining, 2 are scum and 2 are confirmed, which leaves 1 watcher and 2 VT's. Hopefully, the person I hid behind last night isn't a watcher, which would be very convenient.

I'm not going to reveal who I hid behind yet, It'll give to scum too much info, I'll reveal it later.

[guy0]

Oh, and, of course,

Vote: Primate

For the obvious reason, he's scum, nuff said (clue: this means I didn't hide behind him last night)

[Beloved Princess]

Hey, you, Primate.

So, if I'm a retard, what does it say about you that I'm the one catching the scum and you're spewing whiny BS?

Suck on that one for a bit, then go find some actual damned scum. Thanks.

guy, you should claim the person you hid behind. More confirmed townies = good. Especially if it's me.

I'd also like to say that since this is an open setup, the last watcher is also confirmed. If guy didn't hide behind the other watcher, very good things will happen.

[guy0]

There's a specific reason that I want to keep who I hid behind as a secret for now. What I as is that every single player is this game should write their thoughts about every other player in the game. Something like

Prim: blah blah

BP: blah blah

etc etc etc

That way everyone will need to share their opinions on everyone else so that we have a good baseline of discussion for the day.

I'll start:

Guy0: Hider

Primate: Was suspicious from d1 since he practically led the chrono wagon, was never against confid, who flipped scum, and tried to defend him too much and made a case against BP, who practically started the confid suspicion. I think he's scum

BP: I think she's town just b/c of the confid thing. She started the wagon and pushed for the lynch. Also the fact that primate, who I think is scum, gave her a big accusation only makes me think more about her being town.

Emp: Had similar ideas to Prim, so could be scum, but I'm not too sure

Pom: Lots of small scummyness and lots of post promising without giving a good reason, I giver her the same chance of being scum as Emp. While the hammer was indeed a hammer, it was on a scum. This could be WIFOM'd for a while so I dunno what to do about the hammer.

DJ: D1 thought he was absolutely town, but he basically lurked the entirety of d2, which worries me, I'd like one of these from him.

SA: Pushed the chrono wagon quite a bit. It often happens that the first scum lynch has some scum voting for the person so that means that if we say BP is town, then the scum on the wagon could be Pom or SA. He also had that premature hammer on chrono, and the whole OP thing.


If I had to rank the scummyness of everyone:

Tier 1 (obvi scum)

- Primate

Tier 2

- Pom
- SA

Tier 3

- DJ
- Emp

Tier 4 (town)

- BP
- Guy

I know this is a shitty post but the fact of the matter is, I'm confirmed so it's all good haha.

[don_johnson]

DJ: D1 thought he was absolutely town, but he basically lurked the entirety of d2, which worries me, I'd like one of these from him.

i don't feel that i lurked, but i am going to reread and post today. prime suspect atm is pomegranate.

[Empking]

Guy0: Hider

Primate: Though I can see why his actions can be seen as scummy, they seem like actions I myself would have taken. I can't help think that he's probably town.

BP: The Confid thing is definitely in her favour, but I'm not confident that it wasn't bussing. Second most town player though.

Emp: N/A

Pom: I agree with Guy to be honest.

DJ: I see him as possible scum but he's quite some way behind Pom and miles behind SA.

SA: He's still scum, none of the flips have changed that.

Tier 1
SA

Tier 2
Pom
DJ

Tier 3
Primate
BP

Tier 4
Empking
Guy0

[Pomegranate]

[...]

Pom: Lots of small scummyness and lots of post promising without giving a good reason,

I giver her the same chance of being scum as Emp.

While the hammer was indeed a hammer, it was on a scum. This could be WIFOM'd for a while so I dunno what to do about the hammer.

[...]

If I had to rank the scummyness of everyone:

Tier 1 (obvi scum)

- Primate

Tier 2

- Pom
- SA

Tier 3

- DJ
- Emp

Tier 4 (town)

- BP
- Guy

If the bolded is true, why are we on different tiers?

Better post sometime today/tonight.

[Pomegranate]

If I'm the other watcher, I didn't watch Thief.

[Beloved Princess]

So, looks like I found another scum~

This scumbag has a variety of delightful tells:
~ Suspected by a dead townie that seems to have had a different motivation for being killed than just being highly pro-town.

~ Chainsaw Defended by known scum.

~ Completely ignores known scum until 2 days before placing a hammer, without ever mentioning decent reasoning for doing so.

~ Late on both lynching bandwagons.

~ Lurks without remorse.

vote Pomegranate

Find her scumbuddy and get a free win! This is a limited time offer only lasting 3 days! So, go and get him or her today!

If I'm the other watcher, I didn't watch Thief.

^ QFT

Oh, and sweetie, yes you had better post your thoughts. I've been waiting for it. Plus, Confid is long dead. You had plenty of time tonight to be working on it. Or were you too busy talking to your scumbuddy?

[Pomegranate]

He [Primate] clearly tried to save confid, who flipped scum a little too much, and he was suspicious from the start. He also tried to pull off the last minute wagon on BP, but failed miserably.

--

DJ: D1 thought he was absolutely town, but he basically lurked the entirety of d2, which worries me, I'd like one of these from him.

i don't feel that i lurked, but i am going to reread and post today. prime suspect atm is pomegranate.

Reasoning?

--

~ Suspected by a dead townie that seems to have had a different motivation for being killed than just being highly pro-town.

NKs are lots of things, including WIFOM.

--

And now for each player...

Beloved Princess- generally pro-town. I like the way her attack on me is clear and concise, even if I don't agree that the points she brought up were very valid. I feel like it would come from a pro-town player.

don_johnson- kinda neutral-leaning scum. I don't recall anything interesting or important from him, especially yesterday, when I don't recall very much of anything at all.

Sleepless Assassin- I have a gut feeling that he's town, possibly because he really gives a good, clear opinion on things.
Pomegranate

guy0- confirmed town hider. Okay.

Primate- tried to push a case on BP mentioed that he wou;d vote Confid but never did, hasn't done very much in general. scumbaaag.

Empking- Similar to dj; hehasn't done very much.

Tier 1:

Primate

Tier 2:

don_johnson
Empking

Tier 3:

BP
SA

Tier 4:

guy0

Vote: Primate

.

[guy0]

Ok change of plan

Due to me worrying that she'll be lynched I'll confirm pomegranate as town as I hid behind her last night.

@ Pom: The reason i put you two on different tiers was because I didn't want people to be able to guess who i hid behind by my post so I just made it seem like i still suspected you so that I could get candid responses from everyone.

Clearly BP and SA didn't understand the point of what I was trying to do, completely ignored the fact that, for once during this game, the town would have more information than the scum, and decided to put you in the position where a quicklynch was possible.

The goal of all of this was to determine who still suspected pom as the scum would definitely be on that list, but now that that plan has failed I had to make this post.

This now puts us at, of the seven people:

2 scum

2 confirmed (me, pom)

either 3 VT's and 1 Watcher

or 4 VT's with Pom as the watcher.

I seriously hope Pom is not the water for 2 reasons:

1. there will one less confirmable person

2. i really hope the watcher was smart enough to watch thief.


So unvote on pom please.


What we did learn from my little experiment is that SA and BP suspect pom, which provides little information but increase both of their chances of being scum.

This makes me think more that, of the remaining scum

1 is primate, the other is either emp or SA