War in the Palace

[Mr. Flay]

Hrm. I don't like reducing it to Kings-only... or at least, I don't think it's the same game. It might be fun.

[PokerFace]

yay i thought it might be a good idea to be rid of anarachist given what TH said but yay you are right that totatally changes the dynamic too much. I'm gonna need to re-write the assassin role though so it not so confusing given if one time a king dies via lynch he should probably loose a kill.

[PokerFace]

Some variants of AiTP outside of IRC have players modkilled should they claim name of their king or claim guard. should that rule be instituted to avoid massclaim here? If they can't claim their kings name then then I think that would stop mass claim.

Without that rule or some other deterant i think mass claim will happen if assassin dies early. And if sides even at that time then kings and guards draw. There is the rare chance the smaller side could lynch all of the bigger side if no claim happens and bigger side is dumb but i doubt it woud happen

current assassin pm

You are the

Anarchist

. You have 2 kills as long as both kings are alive. Should a king die while you have 2 kills, then you will only have 1 kill left. You may use these kills at any time. If you are lynched you must use all kills you have immediatly with your dieing breath. No player is immune to your kills. You win the game if both kings die. Use your vote and your bombs to bring an end to all order.

[Max]

No. I don't think Modkilling for that is worthy. Giving each King a bomb may help. Not too sure though.

[PokerFace]

hmm I could have the assasin die if he runs out of kills. and when he dies he could drop 2 guns. one for each king to use and take turns at shooting any players. though i feel that may change too much....

edit: King with more members would get to shoot first of course and if even not sure who would shoot first. though i don't know if i like this change so i may nix it.

[Max]

Each King gets a 1-Shot Assassin? Who wishes to assassinate the other king.

[Max]

You are the Alpha Supporting Assassin.

You have a political reason behind wanting King Beta dead. If the assassin is dead you have a one shot ability which must be used before your death in order to try and kill the Beta King.

You win if the Alpha King wins. Because you have never met either of the two Kings before you don't know what they look like therefore you must use your wit to determine who is which King.

You die if the Alpha King dies.

EDIT: Fixed Quote Tag.

[Max]

And with a mass claim depending on the order you could claim the larger King-Group

[Hrezs]

What if you make it a noreveal game?
You'll obv know if a king dies because half the players will kill themselves

[Aranneas]

You are the Alpha Supporting Assassin.

You have a political reason behind wanting King Beta dead. If the assassin is dead you have a one shot ability which must be used before your death in order to try and kill the Beta King.

You win if the Alpha King wins. Because you have never met either of the two Kings before you don't know what they look like therefore you must use your wit to determine who is which King.

You die if the Alpha King dies.

EDIT: Fixed Quote Tag.

although my reasoning was flawed so you had no reason to suspect my conclusion to be correct

[ReaperCharlie]

A few things:
-I don't like that all the guards of one king commit suicide when their king dies, because it decreases the number of potential kings for the Anarchist. (But I have no viable fix.)
-Having "No player is immune to your kills." is unnecessary in the Anarchist PM. It just adds in a pinch of mod-WIFOM that doesn't need to be there.
-I like the idea of each king having an Assassin. Maybe make them both one-shot and give the kings no other line of defense other than lynching?

[Max]

PokerFace, it's so sad you can't mod

[dramonic]

if only for logic, I'd make them a king and a queen, both trying to stab each other in the back, instead of a pair of kings sharing a single palace

[animorpherv1]

OK, the Anarchist doesnt know the kings, right?

Also, mass King Claim on any day is a fail. Anarchist wins via bomb kills.

[Max]

if only for logic, I'd make them a king and a queen, both trying to stab each other in the back, instead of a pair of kings sharing a single palace

How homophobic.

[Mr. Flay]

OK, the Anarchist doesnt know the kings, right?

Have you been READING the thread?

Also, mass King Claim on any day is a fail. Anarchist wins via bomb kills.

Apparently not. People are only talking about King Claiming once the Anarchist/Assassin is dead.

[ReaperCharlie]

PokerFace, it's so sad you can't mod

Why can't he? This game was fun.

Long live Lady Gaga!

[Max]

That's marathon day, no?

[quadz08]

Why take away a kill from the assassin if a king is lynched? I don't see why it's necessary; I think the assassin should lose a shot if a shot is used. That's it.

Also (this may be a terrible idea) what if the guards became aligned with the other king after their king is killed?

And I like dram's suggestion of making it King and Queen, except then it kills TH's idea on how to prevent a massclaim.

[ReaperCharlie]

That's marathon day, no?

Hey, it was a legitimate win!

Plus, have YOU ever gotten as cool a role as LADY GAGA?

I don't think so.

[PokerFace]

I have modded on other websites and IRC. On MS I have reviewed and co-moded and backup modded a few games

The other websites sadly aren't arround any more so i can't really prove what i have done there.

Eventually i will actually take the time to join the modding queues or just wait for marathon days. Maybe some credentials will get waved for me given some people know of my games but if not waiting in line ain't so bad.

I have run a few epic games on marathon days such as Bastard Face, Bad Reveal, Two Face, and AitPPPPokerFace. So even if i don't wait in line i can still run some epic games.

At the moment I am considering either leaving things as is and hoping assassin just doesn't die early OR have guards become assassins of enemy kings once original assassin is gone. Basically guard starting pm is the same. BUT if assassin dies early then 1 guard of the larger king faction gets a suicide bomb he must use on the enemy side right after assassin dies. If both sides are even at time assasin dies then things may still be drawed. Or I will have to pick a side at random perhaps. Either way I'd still like a suicide bomb effect to the endgame

Edit: Perhaps i let larger side go suicide bomb crazy until both sides even or game over. And once both sides even i do like a baseball overtime innings giving suicide bombs until there is a victor. One side gets a bomb they blow someone up. If its king the other team must now hit king or they will loose. If top inning faction does not hit king then its bottom innings chance to end game imediatly. And only then if both kings die in same inning will there be a draw.

[PokerFace]

Current idea

1

You are King Alpha. You win the game if you are alive, King Beta is dead, and the assassin is dead. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

1

You are King Beta. You win the game if you are alive, King Alpha is dead, and the assassin is dead. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

6 (3 to each of king)

You are an Guard. (Insert real name of player that is a king here) is your king. You win the game if your king is alive, the other king is dead, and the assassin is dead. If your king dies, you will immediatly commit suicide out of shame. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest. When you die you will only be revealed as Guard

1

You are the assassin.

You have 2 kills you can use at any time including just before your lynch. If you run out of kills, you will die. You can not have more kills than their are kings left alive so if you have 2 and a king is lynched, you will loose a kill. No player is immune to kills. If you are lynched you must use any kills you have imediatly with your dieing breath. You win the game if both kings die. Use your vote and your kills to bring an end to this war.

If the assassin is alive he can Endgame the Kings in certain situations. Should 1 King be alone with the assassin or both kings be alone with the assassin and no guards are alive, the assassin wins.

OR

You are the assassin.

You have 2 kills you can use at any time including just before your lynch, neither is a suicide bomb. You can not have more kills than their are kings left alive so if you have 2 and a king is lynched, you will loose a kill. No player is immune to kills. If you are lynched you must use any kills you have immediatly with your dieing breath. You win the game if both kings die. Use your vote and your kills to bring an end to this war.

If the assassin is alive he can Endgame the Kings in certain situations. Should 1 King be alone with the assassin or both kings be alone with the assassin and no guards are alive, the assassin wins.

This is current game idea. Which assassin role do you think is better? What do you guys think about improvements to the other roles? If assassin dies early there may be a mass claim of king but then you could risk your king having less followers so you loose. High risk high reward. And if assassin dies early then same thing

[Trojan Horse]

Correct me if I'm wrong:

The only difference between the two scenarios is that, in the second, the assassin may play on if he has used up both kills and at least one king is still alive. And if the assassin reaches endgame with no guards alive, then the assassin wins, despite having no kills left.

If I'm understanding correctly, then the first scenario (where the assassin loses if he has no kills left) is the way to go. Otherwise, this may happen:

Three player endgame. King, guard, and assassin left. If the assassin still has a kill, then he has the game won; he just needs to use that kill on whoever he wants. If he kills the king, great. If he kills the guard, then he's left alive with the king, and he still wins. The assassin can't go wrong in that situation.

No. If the assassin has used both kills, and at least one king is still alive, the assassin should die.

[PokerFace]

I think you are right

I think what I was asking was, "in either situation is the assassin too powerful?" Clearly he is too powerful in that one.

Is there more that should be done to limit him or do you think "no kills left = dead assassin" is balanced enough?

[PokerFace]

Also here is why I think an assassin with 1 kill should be able to endgame both kings should no guards be alive. Neither king will vote for himself. And in theory neither king is able to achieve their win condition. They can't get both other players lynched, its not possible. While in theory the assassin can get one of them lynched and kill the other. His win condition is still theoretically achievable while the others have no logical move they can make to win. They can't play to win any further, only the assassin still has a chance. So he auto wins there instead of a happily ever after