[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[StrangerCoug]

Amnesia Mafia

• 3 Mafia Goons
  
• 1 Amnesiac Doctor
  
• 1 Amnesiac Vigilante
  
• 1 Amnesiac Roleblocker
  
• 1 Friend of the Doctor
  
• 1 Friend of the Vigilante
  
• 1 Friend of the Roleblocker
  
• 4 Vanilla Townies

Each of the power roles know they have one, but don't know which one they have. Instead, their corresponding "friend" is told what role they have. The friends have no special abilities.

So... does the PR tell the Friend who they want to target? And the Friend submits the action? Or does the Friend submit actions based on their best guess of what the PR wants?

I'm not at all clear how this would work in practice. Do the PRs know who their Friends are?

My understanding of the "standard" (read: not SWN I-style, though the proposal contains an element of that) amnesiac roles is that the power role submits the action, but the friend receives the action's result.

[Nobody Special]

That makes more sense.

[Andrius]

ok no goon 2 cops 2 townies

Dropping the Goon doesn't help much.
Hell, it doesn't help at all, really.
You still have two scum PGOs, which will average about one extra kill a night, besides for the normal NK.

You still have 2 Cops and 2 Docs. The Cops are pretty much useless. The only people they can investigate are scum PGOs, who kill them on-site. The Cop would have to claim in-thread, announce his NP target, in order to actually get the town to benefit from him. At that, he's sacrificing himself.

Scum PGO is just a bad idea.

I'm totally willing to help you with setups, but a scum PGO isn't something that will work in an Open game.

Ok how about
2 mafia PGOs

1 doc
4 cops
3 trackers

Scum PGOs are a bad idea.
You have 8 town PRs who will all make one visit. Chances are that 1-2 will visit scum. That means 1-2 will die, on top of the mafia NK.
With a probable town lynch D1, that puts it at 4 dead townies by D2.
Worst case scenario is that a ton of townies visit the PGOs, and are blown to bits.

Scum PGOs are just a bad idea, Dr.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Ok just one mafia PGO
and 7 trackers, game starts at night 0

[Beefster]

drmy: You need powerless townies or else you have a huge mess of useless information. And scrap the scum PGO. Scrap the whole setup really. It doesn't work.

And for my Amnesia Mafia, my original idea was to have a cop instead of a roleblocker. It never really occurred to me to send the results to the friend. That way, you could make the setup semi-open and even more ridiculous. Something like...

amnesia mafia v0.2

* 3 Mafia Goons
* 3 Different Amnesiac Power Roles
* 3 Corresponding Friends of the Power Roles
* 4 Vanilla Townies

The power roles will randomly be 3 of the following: Cop, Tracker, Watcher, Doctor, Vigilante, Roleblocker; with equal weights.
Each of the power roles know they have one, but don't know which one they have. Instead, their corresponding "friend" is told what role they have. The friends have no special abilities aside from receiving information from their corresponding power role's actions.

And the point of the friends knowing the PR is to give SOME clue to what power role they wield and to receive investigative results.

Then the problem comes in when the friend of a cop, watcher, or tracker is killed. Who gets the results in that case? Nobody?

[Alduskkel]

Isn't it really easy to figure out if you're the Vigilante?

[Andrius]

Ok just one mafia PGO
and 7 trackers, game starts at night 0

So you're at one scum. One scum PGO.
and 7 trackers.

Starting on N0 is no different from starting on D1 here:
The setup still has problems.
1) The town should just make a visitation plan, like visiting the person underneath them, and it'll be obvious as to who is scum PGO by who dies.
2) Scum PGO is a bad idea.

[kunkstar7]

Does the scum still get a factional kill?

[Beefster]

Isn't it really easy to figure out if you're the Vigilante?

There will always be some level of uncertainty on Day 1. You never can know if one of the other power roles chose to target the same person that died. You'll know when a vigilante is present, but you can't be so sure who it is.

[Andrius]

Does the scum still get a factional kill?

If you're talking about Dr's setup, they'd have to, else the town just does visitation and they lynch scum D2- guaranteed.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

alright, I'm determined to get one open setup in.

Triplets:

3 Mafia A goons
3 Mafia B goons
3 Mafia C goons
3 Bulletproof Townies

The townies are bulletproof because without the night protection, it seems there would be little to no chance. During the day, the most "town like" player may even be lynched, because they cannot be killed at night, and all mafias will need them dead. During the night, if a mafia shoots someone in the night, and they do not die, a member of that mafia could claim this and get support from other mafias, however, out himself as a killable target. Those are pretty much all of the tricks there, and if this seems to favor town, maybe we could change one mafia goon from each into a godfather.

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Classic with a Lynch:

10 players total, any of these combinations:

1 lyncher
1 mafia goon
1 mafia roleblocker
6 vanilla townies
1 vanilla townie (lynchee)

1 lyncher
2 mafia goons
5 vanilla townies
1 vanilla townie (lynchee)
1 Cop or Doctor

1 lyncher
1 mafia goon
1 mafia roleblocker
5 vanilla townies
1 Cop (either cop or doctor is lynchee)
1 Doctor (either cop or doc is lynchee)

[ReaperCharlie]

If you're thinking about doing amnesiac cops, make sure not to overpower the role like the ones in Werewolf: Wisborg Asylum. Those were quite a bit too powerful, and there were two of them.

The roles was called The Oracle, and they gave their alignment cop results to a random person of their choice at night 'in the form of a dream' (flavor). There were two Oracles, and basically the town got two investigations per night, free and clear, without any repercussions for The Oracles themselves, because they didn't have to worry about being killed as a claimed cop. All you had to do was claim dream results but no responsibility for them. It was way overpowered and town crushed three scum factions without batting an eye.

If anything, I suggest limiting them in some way, and only having one at best. If you want to make sure he doesn't get killed off super early, then just make a backup amnesiac cop if the first one dies, instead of having two at the get-go.

[Twomz]

Have the dream result roleblock the target. They get an investigation result, but whatever action they have fails. That also opens up insane dreams and scum mystics who can plant dreams into players. Lots of ways to balance the role... but I don't know if it would be ok as an open game.

[The Fonz]

Rock, Paper, Scissors Mafia

One Rock (Lyncher targeting Paper)
One Paper (Lyncher targeting Rock)
One Scissors (Lyncher targeting Paper)

Two mafia goons

6 vanilla townies

Doc

Vig

Daystart. If a lyncher is lynched, the lyncher targeting him wins, the lyncher targeted by him loses, and all three are out of the game. If a lyncher is nightkilled, he loses, the lyncher targeting him becomes a townie, and the lyncher targeted by him stays a lyncher (because his target is still alive).

Lyncher win conditions are independent of town and scum ones.

[Mr. Flay]

Have the dream result roleblock the target. They get an investigation result, but whatever action they have fails. That also opens up insane dreams and scum mystics who can plant dreams into players. Lots of ways to balance the role... but I don't know if it would be ok as an open game.

Yeah, I like the potential there for a Theme Game, but it seems a bit much for this Queue.

[ReaperCharlie]

Have the dream result roleblock the target. They get an investigation result, but whatever action they have fails. That also opens up insane dreams and scum mystics who can plant dreams into players. Lots of ways to balance the role... but I don't know if it would be ok as an open game.

Yeah, I like the potential there for a Theme Game, but it seems a bit much for this Queue.

Yeah it was a closed theme, but there were no balancing roles. It was just straight up 2 cop investigations per night with no responsibility for claiming results whatsoever. And they were all sane. *headdesk* All we had to do was WIFOM whether or not the dreamer(s) were lying. Once we figured out they weren't, it was easier than cake.

[Mr. Flay]

I know. We're talking about ways to FIX what happened in that game.

[jimfinn]

How's this one: Mafia Wars

3 Mafia A (2 Goons, One Cop)
3 Mafia B (2 Goons, One Cop)

1 Doc
2 Cops (guaranteed to be exactly one sane, exactly one non-sane - do not know who each other are)
1 Vig
1 Town Roleblocker
1 Jailkeeper
6 VTs

Each Mafia group as a whole gets one NK immunity from the other group, all Vig kills still go through.

[The Fonz]

Hi, I'm the very obvious Doc + Cop problem.

[jimfinn]

Two mafias, only one Doc, and only one of the cops is sane. You could always add my favorite restriction as well (aka Doc cannot protect same person on consecutive nights)

[The Fonz]

Doesn't matter. Cop claims with different results. (Btw you should at least guarantee the non-sane one is paranoid or naive- insane is a very powerful role once it realises it's insane).

[Mr. Flay]

Fonz is right - you can end up with

two

Cops with useful results that way.

In practice, multiple Mafias almost never seem to team up to defeat the Doc, probably because any signaling of intent will lead to Mafia shooting the other Mafia instead.

[animorpherv1]

Also, Mafia Cops figure out alignment of another player, right?

If so, they may just find the doc and kill him/her.

[jimfinn]

yeah, the non-sane would have to be naive, paranoid, or random. good point. Also, the presence of mafia cops would discourage the doctor from protecting the first claimed cop, even if they have a correct guilty. And @animorpher, the mafia cop will just get an innocent or guilty like any other cop; it's just a way for them to try to find the other mafia.

[Twomz]

Nightless Secret Vote

8 Townies
2 Mafia

Votes are PMed to mod and the 'votecount' is updated every page or so with no names but the people voting. Players can post in thread who they are voting for or when they switch a vote, but the votes posted in thread do not count towards a lynch.