Alphabet Mafia (Gamer Over, Joy Up!)

[Friend]

I'm just not so sure, man.

I know it's a possible scum role, but so is rolethief. I just feel way more confident in your lynch then Benny's.

[xRECKONERx]

FRIEND. I AM FUCKING TOWN. PLEASE CAN WE LYNCH BENMAGE FIRST. I WILL BE FUCKING FURIOUS IF THAT TOSSER IS ALLOWED TO GET A MISLYNCH ON ME WHEN HE'S SCUM.

[xRECKONERx]

OH. AND YOU *KNOW* THAT I'M TOWN BECAUSE YOU'VE READ ME AS TOWN THE WHOLE GODDAMNED GAME. DON'T SWITCH NOW.

[Benmage]

I'd much rather lynch Kai, but since I think we're looking for 2 scum I can settle with Reck...especially since it looks like hes flailing for a personal lynch. Anyone of any sort of intelligence would have me known confirmed.

vote Reck

[gandalf5166]

OH MY CHRIST. WE HAVE MOLE READING THIS GAME. SOMEONE WHO ISNT REQUIRED TO AS A PLAYER IS ACTUALLY READING A 100 PAGE GAME? HE HAS THE STAMINA OF ME. THATS RIGHT. I WENT THERE.
Should I hammer Reck? Cause I really want to.

[gandalf5166]

Oh never mind, one more person has to vote before I can hammer.

[xRECKONERx]

gandalf. Let's lynch Benmage.

I'd much rather lynch Kai, but since I think we're looking for 2 scum I can settle with Reck...especially since it looks like hes flailing for a personal lynch. Anyone of any sort of intelligence would have me known confirmed.

HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU CONFIRMED? PLEASE, TELL ME HOW.

Here's the kicker of it all: I can fucking confirm if Kairyuu is scum or not. HERE'S HOW!
He targets me with his claimed ability. Since I'm assuming scum can only use one active ability per night (like in most of dramonic's games), then I will steal his ability. If I end up with this role copping ability, it means Kairyuu used role cop. If Kairyuu uses role cop and there is no kill, then he's not cleared. If Kairyuu uses role cop and there IS a kill, then he is clear.

There's literally no risk in this plan.

[gandalf5166]

Other than giving a rolecop ability to probscum.

[xRECKONERx]

But I'm NOT SCUM.
This plan has to have more validity than just "We're going to lynch at random until we hit scum". If we lynch me today, then it's 5:1:1. That puts you guys in 3:1:1 tomorrow, and if you hit wrong again, then it's 2:1:1 with the possibility for a loss. I don't want that. At least give me the pleasure of going into tonight 6:1 by lynching scum today. Then you can mislynch me tomorrow all you want to. At least let me go to the noose with the security that it's going to be impossible to fuck this up.

[gandalf5166]

Hmmm....... Reck's response to this wagon has been very pro-town.

VOTE: Benmage

[xRECKONERx]

Note that while I'd like to lynch Benmage today, I would lynch Kairyuu as well, as I believe they are the final two scums. Just know that if we lynch Kairyuu there's no way for me to confirm his ability tonight. Also, Benmage keeps on saying he's confirmed... which isn't true.

BENMAGE. ARE YOU STILL A LOVERMAKER Y/N?

[Benmage]

Im confirmed in that you'd have to be fucking retarded to view my role as scum.

Has anyone ever seen a scum lover?

No It was a onetime thing, but since Parama was able to undo it I got it back and did it to parama and fate.

Now how would a scum lover act if existed? Make X-Y lovers...have an easy 2 people to NK, seems broken (imagine saving that for right before lylo..gg).

[Benmage]

Hmmm....... Reck's response to this wagon has been very pro-town.

VOTE: Benmage

No he doesn't...he reads like regular flailing, loud, wrong reck.

Hes voting me..now you are..use some logical thinking

[xRECKONERx]

I'm not sure on the mechanics of your role. It's possible, I suppose, that your role as scum would break the game. Hmm.

Vote: Kairyuu

, then. I'm going to need someone with more brainpower (and time) than me to figure out if it's possible for Benmage to be scum without his role completely breaking the game. If he's not scum (as in, if there's no way he could be scum without the mod being dumb, and I know the mod isn't), then it's Kairyuu & Pacman. Pacman is role confirmed, but not alignment confirmed (same goes with Benmage, I suppose, but eh.)

[pacman281292]

gandalf. Let's lynch Benmage.

I'd much rather lynch Kai, but since I think we're looking for 2 scum I can settle with Reck...especially since it looks like hes flailing for a personal lynch. Anyone of any sort of intelligence would have me known confirmed.

HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU CONFIRMED? PLEASE, TELL ME HOW.

Here's the kicker of it all: I can fucking confirm if Kairyuu is scum or not. HERE'S HOW!
He targets me with his claimed ability. Since I'm assuming scum can only use one active ability per night (like in most of dramonic's games), then I will steal his ability. If I end up with this role copping ability, it means Kairyuu used role cop. If Kairyuu uses role cop and there is no kill, then he's not cleared. If Kairyuu uses role cop and there IS a kill, then he is clear.

There's literally no risk in this plan.

No this plan won't work. In case scum is allowed to both use PR and kill the same night, we will be screwed.
Outguessing the mod (even if you're the mod's... humm... lover is it?) isn't a good idea.
I'm very inclinced to believe Kai is scum, because rolecop is often a scum role. However, I think it's a good idea to let Kai live, at least for one day. Why? because his actions can confirm one more player, thus breaking the game in case we DO lynch scum tonight, or that both scum try to kill the same player tonight.
I've gotta reread xRECK and Benmage right now, in order to decide my vote. Meanwhile, I think we should plan who should Kai inspect tonight.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm not outguessing the mod. I'm saying literally every game I've seen dramonic mod has the only one active ability per day/night clause in the PM somewhere.
Letting Kai live is stupid if he's scum. What the hell kind of logic is that? We lynch Kai today, because Benmage has a point about the game being broken if he is scum.

[pacman281292]

I'm not outguessing the mod. I'm saying literally every game I've seen dramonic mod has the only one active ability per day/night clause in the PM somewhere.
Letting Kai live is stupid if he's scum. What the hell kind of logic is that? We lynch Kai today, because Benmage has a point about the game being broken if he is scum.

Which is outguessing the mod, exactly. What makes you think dramonic wouldn't scrap that clause this time?
not sure on what you said about Kai...

[xRECKONERx]

Because this would be a random time to decide to scrap it?
Especially when we've been writing role PMs for our upcoming theme game recently and we've used that very clause?
But, whatever, it doesn't matter. We're going to lynch Kai anyway so that clause doesn't matter.

[Kairyuu]

@Reck: Did you really just agree with Benmage that his role would be broken if given to scum? Have you SEEN some of the scumflips? Hint:

Voteblocker: I didn't see any 1-shot modifier, so I assume it was usable each Night, but even if it wasn't a voteblock on a townie on the Night before lylo lets that team force a No lynch in lylo, resulting in a definite scum win.

Mafia Princess: As long as 2 or more scum are alive in lylo, a Mafia Princess can CLAIM SCUM and get lynched and scum still have a confirmed win. Let's assume a 4-3 lylo:
Day X: 4-3
Mafia Princess lynched
Night X: 4-2
Townie killed, extra Night
Night X+1: 3-2
Townie killed
Day X+2: 2-2
Scum win.

This occurs for all situations where the Mafia princess has at least one partner left alive come lylo.

In addition to that, we have the inheritor role. If that had outlived either of the above, it could have been a second attempt at whichever one the scumteam considered more important. Hell, if used in conjunction with the Mafia Princess, it could even turn a 5-3 mylo into a confirmed scum win:
Day X: 5-3
princess lynched, inheritor becomes princess
Night X: 5-2
townie killed, extra Night
Night X+1: 4-2
townie killed
Day X+2: 3-2
inheritor lynched
Night X+2: 3-1
townie killed, extra Night
Night X+3: 2-1
townie killed
Night Day+4: 1-1
Scum win.

And that's just the flips that stuck out to me.

Preview edit: Heh. You're not lynching me. The game is broken. It's 2 of you, pacman, and Benmage. At this point I'm leaning you and Benmage, but either way I'm NOT letting you insert a chance for scum to win into a broken game. Not happening. You die, end of story.

[Friend]

Andrius was a scum neighborizer in SpyreX's POWERFUL WIZARD Mafia. It's been done.

[Triglav]

Also keep in mind that he wouldn't have to claim the resurrection.

Yeah, but if scum is resurrected, they're just going to get wagoned back to deathyness.

@Kairyuu - Fair enough.

@Gandalf - What good would a scum rolecop do NOW that we've massclaimed?

Has anyone ever seen a scum lover?

Yes. Quite often.

Others have cited that a lover-maker isn't the most broken thing scum could've had in this game. Purple had a Princess, and Inheritor and a Voteblocker. Red had much more... balanced? roles. A delayer, a busdriver and a scribe. Being on Purple might've made it a bit.. reckless for them, but being on Red might've given them a bit of a fighting chance possibly.

You're not confirmed by any stretch of imagination.

This head now sees an upside to letting Kai live. If Kai feeds us results, then he is still useful. He can't feign an innocent on a player without damning himself in the process. This scum needs that scum lynched, and vice versa.

In the meantime, head is still waiting on other heads, but would be apt to laying down a Benmage vote at this point.

[xRECKONERx]

KAI. YOU ARE NOT CONFIRMED.

[pacman281292]

This head now sees an upside to letting Kai live. If Kai feeds us results, then he is still useful. He can't feign an innocent on a player without damning himself in the process. This scum needs that scum lynched, and vice versa.

This is what I thought.
However, what makes me hesitate is that, in case we do mislynch a town today, if Kai is scum he can perfectly damn us, by setting a fake scum result on a townie and letting the whole fate of this game to "who would you believe?".
Even if Kai is town, in case we do lynch town today and he gets scum results, the game can also degenerate into a "who would you believe?" set by the other scum. Both scenarios together, we get a fine masterpiece of WIFOM.
Furthermore, if we do lynch Kai here and he flips scum, we would receive ever more WIFOM, as the person he claimed was scum might STILL be scum, so we would be screwed.
That's what makes me feel uneasy on not lynching Kai. If we decide as such, we should be 100% sure we're lynching scum, else the situation might be truly troublesome.

@Reck: Did you really just agree with Benmage that his role would be broken if given to scum? Have you SEEN some of the scumflips? Hint:

[some scenarios with the already seel flips]

Preview edit: Heh. You're not lynching me. The game is broken. It's 2 of you, pacman, and Benmage. At this point I'm leaning you and Benmage, but either way I'm NOT letting you insert a chance for scum to win into a broken game. Not happening. You die, end of story.

No. What you say here is a very big lie.
Hint: We do have 2 scum teams.
Hint2: The game is already way too imbalanced in favor of town - check the pro-Town flips
Hint3: Too many pro-Town cops. Worse than that, one pro-Town sane Cop. That

and a sane role cop

would be totally pushing it.
I'm still trying to find out stuff there, but I'm tempted to believe Reck is town (mostly a gut vibe), and that therefore the scum would be Kai on one side and Benmage on the other. If after my reread I'm not 100% sure, I will vote Kairyuu.

[Kairyuu]

@Reck: Did I say I was confirmed? Nope. I'm pretty sure I've been speaking from my own perspective this whole time. The broken game scenerio hinges on people not being stupid and lynching me. If you're town, then I'm wrong, but it doesn't matter. That doesn't change the fact that if we lynch you, pacman, and Benmage we will be looking at two scum dead out of the two scum remaining in the game.

Upon further investigation (reading pacman's post) you may very well be town. pacman just made an argument so scummy that it broke my scumdar, and considering I really want to believe that Benmage is scum so I can lynch him, that leaves Reck-town.

@pacman:

This is what I thought.
However, what makes me hesitate is that, in case we do mislynch a town today, if Kai is scum he can perfectly damn us, by setting a fake scum result on a townie and letting the whole fate of this game to "who would you believe?".
Even if Kai is town, in case we do lynch town today and he gets scum results, the game can also degenerate into a "who would you believe?" set by the other scum. Both scenarios together, we get a fine masterpiece of WIFOM.
Furthermore, if we do lynch Kai here and he flips scum, we would receive ever more WIFOM, as the person he claimed was scum might STILL be scum, so we would be screwed.
That's what makes me feel uneasy on not lynching Kai. If we decide as such, we should be 100% sure we're lynching scum, else the situation might be truly troublesome.

This right here is such a huge stretch that it's actually funny. You're saying that you should lynch the claimed cop, who is ABILITY CONFIRMED (aka exactly as confirmed as you are, for the record) just because regardless of my alignment, if I come up with a guilty result tomorrow you'll have to decide whether or not I'm scum.

In other words, you want to lynch me now because if you lynch me now you won't have to deal with my result tomorrow. This SCREAMS scum that's afraid that I'll 1-1 him tomorrow. Hell, this right here is enough for me to change my vote.

unvote
vote: pacman

No. What you say here is a very big lie.

I'd love to see a reason for this accusation.

Hint: We do have 2 scum teams.

I don't even know what you're trying to tell me here. Do you think I'm unaware of this fact?

Hint2: The game is already way too imbalanced in favor of town - check the pro-Town flips

How are the town flips thus far relevant AT ALL to the fact Benmage's role as scum would NOT be broken? I said NOTHING about the balance of the game, and I don't understand why you're bringing it up at all, let alone trying to use it as a point against me.

Hint3: Too many pro-Town cops. Worse than that, one pro-Town sane Cop. That and a sane role cop would be totally pushing it.

Let me direct you to Cross Edge Bastard Mod. The pro-town investigative roles included: A role that saw what race killed each of the players who died, a role that could only successfully hammer people who were of a different faction (this was me), a basic cop that could only investigate males, a role that could track/watch at the same time and would continue doing so until he changed the target, and a role that would BROADCAST the use of any ability of the target to the entire town (for example, X used the Mafia kill ability would be posted by the mod), and if I remember correctly there was at least 1-2 ultimate abilities and/or haunt abilities that would cause some sort of investigation. dramonic loves his investigative roles, and 2 cops and a watcher is not at all a stretch comparitively (cross edge was 24 players, this was 25).

I'm still trying to find out stuff there, but I'm tempted to believe Reck is town (mostly a gut vibe), and that therefore the scum would be Kai on one side and Benmage on the other. If after my reread I'm not 100% sure, I will vote Kairyuu.

Bolded mine. So why is there an accusation of me making some sort of "big lie" when you provide absolutely NOTHING that can be construed in ANY WAY to be a lie on my part? Everything I said was logically reasoned out and OBJECTIVELY factual. Methinks you're just throwing around buzzwords. I'm happy with my vote.

[Friend]

I thought pacman was confirmed town?