NY 120: Flash mafia 2. GAME OVER

[Ojanen]

UT's RVS points about Esp strike me as serious padding, especially since at the time it happened

So I was reading back through the RVS stuff, thinking maybe Parama was a weak end-of-RVS suspect.

he didn't find it scummy.
I also think he misreps the situation by attributing the attention on Esp to attention whoring on Esp's part.

Also, I find it...weird... that you're defending him and calling me scum for not liking what he's had to say, but whatever.

I want an upfront answer on whether "...weird..." means scummy or not.

[Ojanen]

Oman, your read on UT?

[mikeburnfire]

unvote, vote untrod tripod

Deadline soon, and I have no idea who scum are. My gut tells me Esp is town, so I'll go for the second-highest wagon.

[Luchris]

EBWOP: Standby for read of tripod.

Did this happen?

[Luchris]

Oh Oj 226 heh...

[Luchris]

Tripod, any second scumread after Espeo?

[Ojanen]

Mbf you lazy son of a bitch deadline is in 5 days.
Luchris, I don't think Oman has any interest in reading the thread, I've also asked twice already.

[Oman]

Oman's feelings are hurt, dudette.

Oman does have interest in playing along, he just *hates* having to read back over things in a specific context. Especially as at page 10 he doesn't think a lot will come of it that wouldn't be found in a late-wagon stage (considering nilwagon-early wagon is kind of bland and mediocre in all games). Note that he's already had to do this *twice* (once for himself!).

So yeah, Oman will play along, but you wont have him at your beck and call. I play with you all, but I hate being prescribed how to play.

[mikeburnfire]

Mbf you lazy son of a bitch deadline is in 5 days.

As a Serial Killer, I really don't care who dies, but you guys probably should!

[Porochaz]

Seriously, you are going to the third person thing? (badly I might add)

MBF needs to start being useful and I will answer OJ in due course. (Im only doing flyby posts for now, just got a new job)

[Ojanen]

So yeah, Oman will play along, but you wont have him at your beck and call. I play with you all, but I hate being prescribed how to play.

Now you're just being weird, dude. We wanted to know what you think about UT. UT had

3 short posts

at the time of the 2 first questions and

6 posts

at this juncture. Do you not believe in the power of iso?
Seriously.

"-What do you think about UT, Oman?
-Standby for read.
...
-What do you think about UT, Oman?
...
-What do you think about UT, Oman?
-What do you think about UT, Oman?
-YOU CAN'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY DON'T HURT MY FEELINGS"

[Fishythefish]

Fishy: Do you still think I'm a valid wagon? If not, what has changed to make you think I'm not scum?

I don't think you're a good wagon (not sure what you mean by "valid"). You made a post I found slightly scummy in the RVS. Since then, you've done nothing further that gives me much of a read on you. I think that other wagons are better - UT, notably.

@UT: could you please make explicit which bits of that Espe iso make you suspect him. You seem to disagree at great length with his post which says "RVing bad, analysis good" - he may have gone a bit overboard with that, but I don't see how it's a scumtell. As for holding back his reads, I again don't see why it makes him likely scum. Your case says that Espe is antitown - I don't see anything in it that makes me think he's scum.

My point was that from your post I just didn't believe your scumread on Espe. You seem to find his play wrong or antitown, but I just can't see how what you've said adds up to "Espe is scum".

Do you think my response to your attacks on Espe are "weird" because your attacks are good, or just that defending another player is "weird"? As oj asked, does "weird" in this context mean "scummy"? Are you making an Espe-fishy link? If not, what does it mean?

unvote, vote untrod tripod

Deadline soon, and I have no idea who scum are. My gut tells me Esp is town, so I'll go for the second-highest wagon.

Deadline is not nearly soon enough for this attitude to be a good one. What do you think of anyone in the game? So far, this gut read on Espe is your only read.

I get a vibe from RGHP that he is much more interested in having something to say than actually figure out who is scum.
1. On Espe - he votes Espe, giving some pretty halfhearted analysis ("general scumminess", plus citing one post that other people had talked about). It conveyed the impression that he was pretty happy with the vote. I asked him for more details, and he didn't say anything.
2. A HoS on volkan with the justification that volkan was "metagaming" - no follow up of any kind.
3. On Prozac, for parroting - never explained why he found it scummy. Has now moved on.
@RGHP: what do you now think of Espe? Of volkan? Of Prozac? Why didn't you follow up on any of these suspicions?

[Oman]

So yeah, Oman will play along, but you wont have him at your beck and call. I play with you all, but I hate being prescribed how to play.

Now you're just being weird, dude. We wanted to know what you think about UT. UT had

3 short posts

at the time of the 2 first questions and

6 posts

at this juncture. Do you not believe in the power of iso?
Seriously.

No, I believe in the power of context.

[Luchris]

Sorry Oman, I don't get what you mean.
You have no read on Tripod right now or what?

[vollkan]

You are right, it took me way too long to change my vote. I am finding currently better to make sure of what Im thinking before I jump in.

Uncertainty gets an undue bad rap in this game. That said, simply saying that you weren't sure isn't good enough; something must have clicked to make the difference between the before and after of your vote - so what was it?

The reason I'm voting him is because what he is doing is a crap shoot. He's picking holes in Kevlar and trying to run with it. When it doesnt work with one person he moves onto someone else. Its not fooling anyone.

What is scummy about attacking different people - unless the logic is consistent crap, but you don't seem to be attacking that here at all (and, if you are, you are, as you would put it, "holding onto it").

Prozac+1

Fabricating a weak case is hellishly easy (oh crap Im repeating things word for word again), fabricating one that people believe and go along with is however a lot harder. Why am I going to be interested on page 30, something he has been holding onto 26 pages. My first question would be, "Why did you not bring this up at the time?" or "Why did you allow town to head on a completely different track when you had what you thought was a golden nugget about that player?"

Easy shot at Espy's unconventional play which entirely ignores what he has said that he is doing.

Prozac+2

unvote, vote untrod tripod

Deadline soon, and I have no idea who scum are. My gut tells me Esp is town, so I'll go for the second-highest wagon.

Unamused.

A lurker-ridden game is problematic enough without the people who should know better not even trying.

Unvote, Vote: Porochaz

[Ojanen]

Somebody sees what I'm seeing. <3 vollkan.

MBF needs to start being useful and I will answer OJ in due course. (Im only doing flyby posts for now, just got a new job)

This 2 days ago. In due course is

completely inadequate

if it allows you to coast until deadline without me being able to either push your scummy answer to get more support for the wagon or move on if your answer is somehow town after all.
Waiting it out does make sense as a scum move.

Also, deadline is int 3 days, right?
WHAT IS WRONG WITH MOST OF THIS GAME

@mod

: Is Jdodge being replaced?

[Ojanen]

Wait, deadline is Friday.
Still.
By this rate I predict an easy scum win. This is a day-game focused game, we're supposed to be making the difference right now. No game-saving stuff will probably come out of the nights.

[Ojanen]

No, I believe in the power of context.

Me too, but usually jumping from iso to check the context at the time of the post is enough for me.
However, are you seriously going to have to reread the entire thread every time you are asked for your opinion on a player you havent mentioned?
Do you have any other reads than Esp-scum without rereading?

[Porochaz]

Somebody sees what I'm seeing. <3 vollkan.

MBF needs to start being useful and I will answer OJ in due course. (Im only doing flyby posts for now, just got a new job)

This 2 days ago. In due course is

completely inadequate

if it allows you to coast until deadline without me being able to either push your scummy answer to get more support for the wagon or move on if your answer is somehow town after all.
Waiting it out does make sense as a scum move.

Also, deadline is int 3 days, right?
WHAT IS WRONG WITH MOST OF THIS GAME

@mod

: Is Jdodge being replaced?

One day, calm down. Im busy.

[Oman]

Finished my ut reread. Umm, I don't get the ut hate, if that helps. There is nothing scummy about it. His post on espy is actually pretty strong on terms of content to response ratio, has some really good points in there too. We independently arrived at the same conclusion (that espy's play is "omg, I caught scum, but I can't tell you how. If you were any good you'd find them too") which is always cool.

I think more content is required on the whole including from myself, so I can't really call him on that. However what I can do is say that I'm a little shocked that ut has become worthy of requested investigation. I usually see that from people suspecting scumbuddies, or from people who want to convince the askee.

Can you explain why you both wanted me to talk about ut?

[RichardGHP]

Anti-prod post.

Content tomorrow.

[mykonian]

The Great Ythill replaces the not so great JDodge

I'm still looking for a replacement for Budja, who has requested one.

[mykonian]

Also, deadline is int 3 days, right?
WHAT IS WRONG WITH MOST OF THIS GAME

@mod

: Is Jdodge being replaced?

I'm sorry, I thought I had given ythill his role already, but I hadn't.

Just like you really need another votecount. To give Ythill some time to get into this game,

the deadline is extended to 5 day's from now.

[Ythill]

Hello. I was happy to get into this game. Lots of familliar faces and few unpleasant memories.

Mod: Thanks for the deadline extension.

After a quick skim, I get the feeling that Luchris deserves far more attention that he's been getting. Will read a little more carefully over the next couple of days.

UNVOTE: Parama
VOTE: Luchris

[RichardGHP]

Predictable.

Neutral read remains.