Mafia 121 -- Picking Simplicity Game Over

[UncertainKitten]

/confirm

[UncertainKitten]

Vote NobodySpecial

I'm not sure you all realize this, but he knows who ALL the scum are, and WON'T TELL US! He is CLEARLY an anti town force to keep this information away from us!

[UncertainKitten]

Interesting claim. Reserving judgement on it. I disagree with Glork about lack of town intent behind it, since I think some could exist, but it's rather tricky.

I'm going to pretend it didn't happen for the time being.

[UncertainKitten]

Should I? I disagree for the time being. I'm happy just chilling here for awhile and seeing what unfolds.

So, how are you doing Glork? Life treating you ok ^-^?

@Glork cut: Fair enough. As I said, I'm pretending it didn't happen, at least not until it matters. Which it doesn't right now. Jack might as well have claimed miller for all I care. Well, if he did that I'd be voting him since there isn't a miller in the set up, but you know what I mean.

[UncertainKitten]

--UKs vote for me is, obviously, uncountable. Shame!

Bullshit, it's totally countable. I count mod votes. Tar counts mod votes. What makes

you

too good to count mod votes >=[!!

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Also, about Rule 14. What if you us RIGHT SHIFT?

[UncertainKitten]

I wasn't thinking it and UK wasn't thinking it. If neither of us were thinking it, then nobody was!

Wow, by page 3. That's a new record.

Nika's answer decides my next action.

[UncertainKitten]

...Clearly I've joined the wrong game. We're on page 43 ALREADY!!!? :O

[UncertainKitten]

Nothing wrong with a little lunacy in mafia. It's gotten so textbook (and INCORRECTLY USED TEXTBOOK) that you NEED to be a little crazy to scumhunt.

LMP is getting dangerously close to creating a certain shape associated with 360 degrees with his argument ^-^. And that does no one any good .

[UncertainKitten]

There was a question. What the hell were you talking about in that post? I knew what Glork said just fine. Yet you said I didn't, or something?

I mean, seriously, "Uh...what?" is pretty damn clear IMO. Explain yourself.

[UncertainKitten]

We didn't? I never said those weren't possibilities. I just saw more. I dun like it.

[UncertainKitten]

Can we lynch Nikanor first, assuming we take that plan of action? I'm getting more bad vibes from him than LMP. Not enough to actually VOTE, but enough so I want to inquire more and come to a decision.

[UncertainKitten]

Jack seems oddly obsessed with the SK. Hope you have good aim .

I have no idea what LMP is trying to say.

[UncertainKitten]

Unvote, Vote Lowell

[UncertainKitten]

Maybe I'd understand if every post you made wasn't a quote stripe wall, LMP ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

So, yeah, Xine posts are amazing.

Amazingly scummy.

Now let's lynch Lowell.

[UncertainKitten]

Fucking Conciseness: How does it work!?

Seriously, what's up with the towers of text on page 8? I tried to read through them to see if anything could be gleaned, but it's basically reiteration of the same two stances in slightly novel and different ways. Also practically impossible to read ways. Could you each, in 5 sentences or less, without quotes, state your damned positions?

[UncertainKitten]

...

Unvote, Vote SnakePlissken

New plan, lynching Snake.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Though Lowell is still acceptable.

[UncertainKitten]

Basis is obvious.

But, just for lulz, I'll echo Jack's question.

[UncertainKitten]

In fact, the fact you ask makes it even more interesting ^-^. Possibly more on this later.

[UncertainKitten]

Sorry, the you in the last post was Snake.

[UncertainKitten]

That works, Yos. Interesting to see how he responds.

I haven't played with Jack in a while, so no, I don't really have much meta on him. I don't think it's relevant, though. All you have to do is assume he's playing to his win condition, and his act doesn't make any sense as scum.

Oh my God I love you Yos.

My scumhunting gets SO much better when I disregard meta. I think there ARE a couple of cases where you need it, but in most it's distracting. The memory is too selective.

[UncertainKitten]

^ And this, my friends, is yet another reason to lynch Snake ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh boy, I'm being called dumb! I am so WOWED by your amazing counter to my inscrutable yet unassailable logic that I will

unv-

Just kidding!

Just in case,

Vote Snake

But, yeah.

Meh, I'll give you at least one little rodent morsel, dearest Snake. I find it

infinitely

interesting that you should observe my apparent lack of reasoning on you but be rather...non observant when I first did it to Lowell (who still is a good lynch, btw, just Snake is a million times BETTER).

[UncertainKitten]

^posts like these make you look like you're scum.

Just a pro tip.

[UncertainKitten]

So, your proof of being town, Snake is...

that you're town? You...don't plan to show us? Just kinda insist and hope we go away?

Do you think this will work? I mean, think of it this way. As it stands, you're going to be lynched. So being unhelpful will CERTAINLY prevent that, right? Um...wait, I think you missed something here.

Put another way, as town, do you have ANYTHING to lose by providing reads, trying to hunt scum, and overall do townie things despite being in threat of lynch? I mean, I think your cost-benefit here is kinda screwed up.

[UncertainKitten]

@Snake: So you conjecture that...because scum want to look town, and town is benefitted by posting a lot...scum would post a lot...more?

Huh?

I...isn't that just Too Townie with a special wrapper?

Let's play your game then. At what threshold does an amount of posts switch from being very townie to being scummy?

[UncertainKitten]

So, how do you tell scummy overposting from townie overposting, Snake?

[UncertainKitten]

@Nika: What, because I haven't blown up and called anyone a moron yet I'm probably scum ?

Unvote, Vote CJMiller

Dammit Glork, you beat me to that one!!!

Still up for Lowell or Snake.

mothrax is doing himself no favors.

Open to meta examples of dumb town CJ behavior. Yes, I'm sure I'm letting you down, AGar, but note I had a qualifier that meta occasionally helps for some players. Mostly for nullifying tells, actually. It's knowing when to use it which isn't very often.

[UncertainKitten]

AGar brings up a good point.

My working scum list is now:

CJMiller
Snake
Lowell
Haylen

I feel CJMiller's actions benefit scum CJ more than town CJ. Glork is right that his jumping in just enough to vote the leading bandwagon is scummy. However, it is also explained by VI behavior. I am still fully willing to lynch anyone on my scum list, those today I REALLY want Snake or CJ dead.

All that said I'll

Unvote, Vote Snake

again.

@Haylen: Misrep is not a magical word that makes cases invalid. Especially when...
/me chuckles a bit
it's...ah...not ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

Except it's not. It's quite a valid tell, and very notable. Wagon behavior is critically important for finding scum, and he has said nothing untrue about you. Calling something someone says "stupid" does not refute it.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: However, it DOES mean you aren't the play today, since it's based on Snake's flip.

[UncertainKitten]

@Antihero: OMGUS is not a scumtell, it is a buzzword. Please articulate your thoughts in a fashion that does not overuse rhetoric, thanks.

Rest of your post is decent, I just wanted to get that out there.

[UncertainKitten]

Can't fence sit if you don't acknowledge something.

But why didn't you acknowledge it? You do realize not providing an opinion on a wagon is scummy, right? Especially if the wagon leads to scum? That is the disputable part, granted.

The jumping onto CJ, an easily building wagon, without acknowledging Snake's wagon at all, is also scummy. It's a matter of "convenient for scum". It's convenient for scum to create and jump onto counterwagons when a scumbuddy is at risk. Again though, it relies on Snake being scum.

[UncertainKitten]

I didn't acknowledge that wagon because I was busy at the time and everybody was posting and it was too much to get my head round.

The issue is that this is subjective. This may be true, but we aren't in your head. We're in our heads. Your actions lead us to a different conclusion. There's not a lot you can do about that.

Fixed quote tag. ~~NS

[UncertainKitten]

One hopes that if you are town, you find a way to prove it before we lynch you.

[UncertainKitten]

I feel intent is a decent enough proof, and I can see a lot of scum intent from you. If you start producing town intent, I'll still be suspicious but less so.

[UncertainKitten]

@Jack: But the whole counterwagoning CJ against the Snake wagon is still good, right Jack? Right?

[UncertainKitten]

Fair point. I explained why earlier, though I still admitted that it's based on Snake's flip. I think I also didn't comment on the Empking wagon much, mostly because it didn't make a lot of sense. Though IIRC, I DID ask what was going on. Haylen never did as far as I can tell.

Haylen ignoring snake but conveniently jumping on CJ when a lot of other people were DOES still bug me though. It assumes Snake is scum, yes, which means Haylen is not the play today. But if Snake DOES flip scum, does it not become more suspicious that she magically appears for the counterwagon?

[UncertainKitten]

I prefer to set up all the cards as soon as I can, but leave enough flexibility to revise conjectures that turn out wrong.

[UncertainKitten]

@Snake: If you somehow flip town, which you won't, by the way, then I will reassess the situation then. But until that happens I see no reason to assume you are anything but scum. If we somehow end up lynching someone else, then I will also reassess the implications of that.

So, your choices are either start doing things that help the town, or die.

[UncertainKitten]

@Snake: Why aren't you helping the town? Why are you wasting time trying to convince me that I'm scum? Scumhunt. Come up with a real case. I've only been exhorting you to do that all game.

If you have a real case feel free to direct it at the town but try to stay in the realm of fact, at least ^-^.

@Haylen: ISO him. Come to your own conclusions. Use the brain I assume you have.

[UncertainKitten]

@Snake: I'll reassess if that time comes. It wouldn't be too hard to figure out the wagon behavior around you if you were to flip town. But for now there's no real reason to ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

@Nikanor: I'm afraid I don't see your point. I've explained, I thought rather clearly, why snake's behavior is indicative of scum. For those that missed it, it's the fact that he refuses to do anything actively pro town, create cases that make any sort of sense outside of "THEY ATTACKED ME >=[!", and overall do anything remotely pro town.

Do you have some sort of reason to believe Snake is town, Nika? Because I would absolutely

looooooooooveeeeeeee

to hear what you come up with.

[UncertainKitten]

Yes, my last post is redundant. Some people miss it the first time. It's really the only point I need to stand on.

[UncertainKitten]

Guess we'll have to disagree. I really don't give five shits that he's "new". He's not posting with town intent. You disagree. Do you want a medal or something? When he flips scum I'll be sure to scrutinize you closely ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

I was the first vote. I moved to CJMiller for a short time, and then back to Snake. Hell, I started the Snake wagon. And I'm damned proud of it!

[UncertainKitten]

Could you explain why, at least, rather than insisting on it and hoping your (not) town flip will suddenly make us assume everything you say is 100% accurate?

Because so far I haven't seen a case, just a "guys, I'm town." "No, REAAALLLLLY guys, I'm towwwwwwwwn" "Why are you lyyyyynchiiiiiing me, I'm toowwwwwwwwwnnnnnnn" "Please guys, I'm towwwwwwwwwwn" "I'm going to name two people for WIFOM purposes without a case because I'm tooooooowwwwwnnnnnnnn"

So please, rectify this.

[UncertainKitten]

Glork isn't dead yet, we should lynch him.

More seriously, I need to reassess things, as promised. I'll be looking mostly around the start of the Snake wagon, I think. Yes, I am aware I started it. Doesn't mean scum couldn't have furthered it to the point of it being a wagon.

[UncertainKitten]

Votecount 1.03

LynchMePls - 5 - Glork, Empking, eldarad, Azazel, AGar
Empking - 4 - Lowell, Nikanor, Yosarian2, Jack
Lowell - 2 - UncertainKitten, Haylen
Sudo_Nym - 1 - SnakePlissken
Agar - 1 - mothrax
Antihero - 1 - LynchMePls
Azazel - 1 - Xine
Nikanor - 1 - Antihero
Xine - 1 - VasudeVa

Not Voting: CJMiller, jmj3000, Sudo_Nym

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

This is the votecount before the Snake wagon.

Of note are the wagons on Empking and LynchMePls. Also, I'm pretty sure Lowell didn't stop being scummy. Let me ISO all three of these individuals.

@Sudo: There was no chance Jack was being targetted by scum. It just wasn't going to happen. It would have been a suboptimal move.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm...LMP starts out very solidly town, asking questions, getting into things. What's odd is when the Snake wagon springs up he seems to sheep more...He doesn't vote Snake until late in the day, but I'm still...finding it mildly odd. He does dig up a lot on Snake though after his vote to explain to Haylen, so maybe it wasn't as weird as I thought.

Eh, let's go with: Hey, LMP, can you post or repost a case on Antihero?

Now Empking.

[UncertainKitten]

Empking makes no sense whatsoever, theory wise. He does make sense as town, oddly enough, he's just...bad at it, at least in his early ISO.

OK, I'd REALLY like to know who is being quoted in this post. I'd also enjoy links to the quoted posts.

Hmm...I'm neutral on Empking by the end of his ISO. It feels like it should be townie but it feels like he also has some very convenient opinions at times. I'll keep an eye on him.

Now Lowell. Also, I forgot to recheck Xine.

[UncertainKitten]

This is the only reason you need to vote Lowell

Vote Lowell

[UncertainKitten]

Xine, on the whole, needs to post more. She'd edged into scummy without a strong enough "Hi I'm scum" post for me to demand her lynch yet.

[UncertainKitten]

Ah, glad to see Nacho is wrong as usual ^-^. Feels like old times.

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah, I don't see anything to the Antihero case, LMP.

[UncertainKitten]

Too bad Lowell is scum. And the majority of your reads are silly as all hell anyway.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Of course, this can be expected of Nacho. Let's hope he doesn't *insist* on things even in endgame where things should be clear to all but the most casual of observers. You know, like other games we've been in together.

[UncertainKitten]

Why are you SK hunting Nikanor? I can think of things, but I'd rather hear what you have to say.

[UncertainKitten]

OK. That's actually better than I thought it would be.

Though I'll admit I don't see what an SK has to gain by claiming in this set up. Perhaps you can elucidate me, having played Picking before?

[UncertainKitten]

True enough. Damn it's been awhile since I played opens. Not wrappan my brain around claim theory as easily.

Anyway, I'm hesitant to drop Lowell....

[UncertainKitten]

I don't like SK hunting. In most games, I'd oppose it vehemently. I think it better to tear through the scum and then take care of third parties. While you've demonstrated why SK hunting is better, it's hard to repress my impulse to get Lowell scum lynched *now*

[UncertainKitten]

Right, I feel Lowell is mafia. Fairly obvious mafia.

I agree Xine looks scummy, just not as scummy as Lowell. Regardless...I think for the time being I can accept an Xine lynch.

Unvote, Vote Xine

I WOULD like her to post more though.

[UncertainKitten]

What the hell is wrong with all of you? I said that Lowell was NOT likely to be the SK, and likely to be MAFIA. Do none of you have an OUNCE of ability to read, for christ's sake?

WHAT. THE FUCK. IS UNCLEAR. ABOUT. THIS. POST!?

*ahem*

Now that we've cleared that up, can we lynch Xine? Her last post isn't that great.

[UncertainKitten]

@RC: Oh yeah. My Lowell vote was pretty fucking justified on D1 and continues to be such. It wasn't a "willy-nilly" vote, he was just claiming scum with that post. I'll thank you to not accuse me of otherwise.

[UncertainKitten]

My Empking read as him at least trying to be town in his ISO. But, yes, he was one of the wagons that the Snake wagon sprang up and pretty much consumed, which does not bear forgetting.

[UncertainKitten]

Well if you don't want to be lynched Xine, stop being scum! Gosh, ya'd think it was rocket science ^-^.

In other news I have stuff to do today so try not to string me up over the next 8 hours, k?

[UncertainKitten]

Jack has a good point about AGar.

@Haylen: Well, why *are* you voting him?

In fact, Jack has a *very* good point.

Unvote, Vote AGar

L-something or other.

[UncertainKitten]

How is making your point pro-town, Haylen?

[UncertainKitten]

So basically you're focused on getting a medal for being *way too super protown*.

Stop it and play the game, please. If you're town it'll show without silly tricks.

[UncertainKitten]

I was considering as I posted. It's his points on AGar. Also, makes any argument better.

Anyway, the trouble is "as you would naturally" reads a lot like "unnatural". Unnatural behavior is usually done with scum intent.

[UncertainKitten]

It's inconsistency that Nikanor pointed out, as well as the fact that while he doesn't like meta (a stance I can agree with), he's using that as an excuse for contrivance. Jack put it best about the whole accusing her of scum, no wait, criticizing her play thing.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: <3 Jack. So much.

[UncertainKitten]

Then you are blind, RC. I wasn't using meta whatsoever. The post I was responding to was a terrible, TERRIBLE post.

@AGar: Lowell is obv scum. No one else is voting him. I believe in getting a lynch. Jack presented what seemed to be quite logical reasoning to vote you. So, I saw no reason not to.

And no, being abrasive isn't a scumtell. What's scummy about what you've been doing is how your argument starts off as how she's scummy and how it ends as how she's a terrible player. It's less that you've claimed a dislike of meta for a *plan* so much as it's a *convenient* dislike of meta.

Also, the "I don't slip" argument is cute. Clearly because we can't catch you as scum we should never vote you. You do realize that's what you are saying, right?

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, right, I'm going to be going V/LA this evening until Sunday evening.

Noted. ~~NS

[UncertainKitten]

mothrax demonstrates he completely missed my point ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

...You know, Haylen, doing the same thing that AGar did does NOT make you look pro town.

Seriously, I really could not give two damns how *good* you are as scum. This game is

this game

. If you are scum, you

will

be caught, whether you

think

you will or not. So don't give me this "I've only been lynched X times as scum" BULLSHIT.

[UncertainKitten]

If you must know, I'm not saying Haylen is town. I just don't feel she's scum yet. Kinda in the middle, know what I mean?

I'm not meta clearing her. So please stop including me in that set.

Also, lolz at you attempting to use self meta earlier to state that you wouldn't. I also note that you never responded to my jab about how you basically were saying we should never vote you.

[UncertainKitten]

Was wonderin' in the back of my head where the hell you were. I look forward to seeing what you have to say when I return from the orewellian win that AnUSA will be.

[UncertainKitten]

I think we have different opinions on what meta means. And while you might be using *facts*, the *way* you are using them is far from factual OR logical. But good try.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh boy. A case on me.
A really
Really
Fucking stupid one.

I mean, dear God, I haven't read such tripe since...uh...actually, I don't read tripe often. But this takes the cake!

Let's disintigrate with, you know, actual fucking logic rather than stupid Nacholand.

Post 2: Lol no.

But this doesn't make ANY sense from a town protown perspective. Did you think this through at all?

Post 29: The reasoning is obvious to anyone with at least 10% of a functioning brain. If I need to explain THAT, I'm in the wrong game.
As for the meta qualifier, I'm notoriously lazy. Deal with it.

Post 49: This...doesn't even merit a response. I'll give one anyway, but this is pathetic, Nacho. Yes, I felt strongly about it. That OBVIOUSLY means that everyone else is town on the wagon, and scum don't take advantage of very strong, incorrect feelings. And I'm OBVIOUSLY a fool to be looking on the Snake wagon for scum when OBVIOUSLY there aren't any there. Yep, just lynch me now.

No, seriously, how is this even a fucking tell?

Post 50: Again, how is this a fucking tell? How does this at all help scum? What the fuck kind of drugs are you on? Where can I get some?

Post 51-53: Garbage. You don't even bother to explain why it's "shitty reasoning". You just think rhetoric will get you through this. You have another thing coming, dumbass.

So, yeah, shitty reasoning, Nacho.

This...is just a pile of fucktarded bullshit. You're acting dumb. Go do something constructive like learning to fucking read.

I apologize for my abrasive tone but I was pretty happy til I realized I had a pile of shit to read. The sad part is I *do* think Nacho is sincere, just posting a dumb case.

Lowell, however, remains insincere and scummy as hell. LMP is posting really stupidly. Nacho's post 512 was fucking garbage and you should feel bad.

@Xine: He (Empking), is posting with town intent. I really don't know how to explain it any better. He's trying. You aren't. Lowell isn't. Nacho is, but it might be better if he didn't.

All that said I'd like to know *why* various things are tells in Nacholand. So I can even further pulverize his silliness.

Also, Xine is scum and is trying to go with the wind.

[UncertainKitten]

Then clearly you can't fucking read, LMP, and your votes from now on are meaningless. I refuted his points pretty damn well.

But, for the sake of NOT losing this game to people being fucking idiots, what points do you need clarified? They're pretty fucking obvious, but I'll *try* to dumb it down for someone of your comprehension level.

[UncertainKitten]

Alright, I'm showered and in slightly higher spirits. I still think it's fairly clear if you think about my post for a minute rather than assuming that I'm going to explain every little point as if you don't have a brain, LMP.

If you still can't conclude anything from thinking about it, then please ask for clarifications.

Jack's latest post has a solid point. You're using vague words like decent and underwhelming without really explaining *why*. I don't like that.

[UncertainKitten]

It reads like stupid town Nacho. I'm *used* to stupid town Nacho. He might be sincere, but his points are shitty. He doesn't realize his points are shitty, so I'm pointing out why they are. The use of rhetoric, for one, is dumb.

However, I find it highly interesting Nacho hasn't answered my questions. Why were those things tells, Nacho?

I try to forget Malth's Fuck You Reality game. I don't remember CJ well.

As for "opportunistic voting", again, you're telling me I'm opportunistic for voting people who look REALLY scummy. What's the difference between that and voting scum? Please, enlighten me? Because sometimes, the scum ARE that obvious. Too scummy for scum is a fallacy.

[UncertainKitten]

And what am I supposed to say against that? Just "no, I don't"? I mean, it's kinda improvable either way. Um...that's nice Jack? Go ahead and vote me if you think that?

[UncertainKitten]

Uh huh. Not gonna fly Nacho. Your case is shit and you should feel bad. Further, your "tells" aren't if you refuse to explain them. I *am* actually beginning to doubt your sincerity given your refusal to defend your attacks on me.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Your 'tells' aren't tells, to clarify.

[UncertainKitten]

The hilarious part is you're the fucking idiot. You're not at all scumhunting. You're looking for shit that looks pretty and hoping no one calls you on it. Well guess what, asshole. Someone IS calling you on it. Put it the fuck up, or shut it the fuck up.

I also disagree that "scum join townie lynches late on principle". I DARE you to prove that line of bullshit.

[UncertainKitten]

Now, we both are going to back off the insults because I'm getting myself worked up over nothing and we still are probably at a point where we don't have to call each other a fucking idiot each post. I realize I started it. Sorry. I feel your post wasn't the most well thought out. This probably doesn't mean you're a fucking idiot.

[UncertainKitten]

Alright, now that we're on the same page, I *am* serious about you explaining the tells wherever I asked for them. As you know, I believe in scum intent, not scum tells. You'll need to tell me how those posts help scum me, rather than just saying they *do*.

[UncertainKitten]

AGar is hilarious. He is so obviously scum it's blinding. "Herp derp I'm going to jump on this growing bandwagon that's not me and non chalantly play off the fact I have no actual leg to stand on for my vote!"

[UncertainKitten]

@Jack: Gee, didn't I just say that?

Thanks for going into more detail though ^-^.

@Haylen: You could post about how you are completely excused of the lack of things you have done, or you can shut up for a few hours and actually read the game, post your thoughts on everyone, and altogether scum hunt. I hope you can tell which one is a more pro town choice.

[UncertainKitten]

And that's what's hilarious. You do not *care* who gets lynched, as long as it isn't you.

That's scummy :O

[UncertainKitten]

Yes, because clearly I haven't been on AGar since you posted a rather decent case on him. I'm not sure I get your point?

[UncertainKitten]

Well, let me put the Lowell thing this way. Is there any reason I *shouldn't* be voting Lowell?

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: At that point, I mean.

[UncertainKitten]

Now UK wants to be convinced about Lowell? or is that meant as she is hesitant to drop the vote on Lowell?

The latter. I still think Lowell is scum, and being transparent about it. We just have other targets more likely to be lynched.

UK says Jack wasn't targetted by scum guaranteed? Is that a slip?

Pretty obvious to anyone with a brain. Please don't be dumb. Rather, why Jack would never be targeted by scum N1 given the situation.

Any other questions?

[UncertainKitten]

I feel there were too many uncertainties to really make Jack a smart kill from a scum perspective. I think they had better targets. And clearly they thought so as well.

I also am not in the habit of assuming my opponents are idiots until they prove as such.

[UncertainKitten]

Yes, of course. Since that didn't happen it supports your fucktarded version of events. Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative, I swear.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Sorry, that last was a little harsh. But the point stands that no matter what I do you're going to erroneously assume I'm scum and probably not bother looking at anyone else til I die. Which is quite a dumb action.

[UncertainKitten]

Of course, pick all the *popular* choices for "I wouldn't lynch them :O!"

Again, it feels like you are worried more about survival than scumhunting. That is far more often done with scum intent. Possibly SK intent, actually.

[UncertainKitten]

@AGar: If you don't do anything with meta, why did you think that we shouldn't vote you because you've only been lynched as scum twice

in previous games

.

So, please, I'm getting sick of this "I don't do meta" bullshit. At least qualify it with "I don't do meta unless I'm trying to save my own ass"

As for Haylen, she's been becoming progressively more scummy as she continues to be useless. At this point I would probably support a lynch on her...assuming you, Lowell, and Xine were dead first.

As for you claiming you think Haylen is scummy, the problem is you start out like that, and then it slowly devolves into "Haylen is a bad player". Jack correctly called you out on this.

And yes, I've actually seen several people who are unwilling to lynch Nacho. So yes, he's a popular choice for not lynching.

@VV: I understand what you are saying but it reads a lot like "AGar is an asshole. Let's lynch him."

Hmm...though, actually, didn't AGar say something about how antagonism isn't anti town if you always do it? Or was that someone else? Because if it was him it is yet another ~*~convenient~*~ disrespect for his *NO META* rule.

@Jack: You want to know what bugs me *most* about Nocmen's replacement post? Because it is a technique I have used quite effectively as scum when making a replacement summary?

"I" (moth) said, as I have no clue what he was thinking when he said what he did.

That. Right there.

Now, do I think Nocmen is scum? Not yet, I just have an eye on him right now. We have so many OTHER scum to lynch that we have some work ahead of us.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: OK, unless I missed something, it was indeed *not* AGar that said that. My apologies for the misrememberence.

[UncertainKitten]

I like that more VV .

[UncertainKitten]

@Jack: Why is the antihero wagon superior to the AGar wagon? I *like* the AGar wagon.

[UncertainKitten]

...Dammit Jack, why you gotta be so convincing?

Did he ever explain himself for that? Note that I don't tend to find contradiction on it's own scummy, but that is a good example of what *is* scummy contradiction, since he's trying to push a lynch on Xine for something he himself did.

@AGar: You really don't understand what meta means. At any rate, what it devolves to matters because it heavily implies that you don't believe what you are saying. And what is there to say about it? It seems like a thing with no bearing on this conversation. And yeah, I checked what I was saying just to be sure and you didn't actually say that.

And frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn what you think is "false" because, hilarilously enough. it...hahaha, isn't.

Also you're somewhat misrepping my reasons for voting but hopefully those are clarified in this post.

[UncertainKitten]

So, can we get a noose around this scum? He clearly has nothing of worth to say.

[UncertainKitten]

OMG S...oh wait.

As for Lowell, I've been trying to get him lynched but apparently this town doesn't believe in lynching scum. Hell, I'm having a hard enough time getting you lynched.

[UncertainKitten]

You do realize there are 4 scum in this game, right? 5 if you include the SK. I can't be all 5 of them.

[UncertainKitten]

Um...Nacho, you DO realize I'm trying *not* to be a raging bitch every time I play since it pisses people off and leaves hard feelings, right? I've kinda failed here anyway, but I'm getting a little better.

Also Nacho never *did* answer my questions either. He hasn't a leg to stand on and knows it.

And I'd be *really* interested in hearing the theory behind holding back scum reads. It seems like a real...slippery way to avoid giving out suspicions that might bite you in the ass.

[UncertainKitten]

So you're just doing what appears to be an anti town, and possibly scummy action for the hell of it? Cause I can tell you the theory about how scum intent could drive a desire to hold back scum reads ^-^.

To be fair Vasu, in Castlevania mafia I died N1. Then again, zwet was frustrating enough so I probably should have asploded if I were going to.

I'll point out you can probably counterexample my calmness with the rage fest that is Ladies Night mafia or Sly Cooper Must Die. Another calmer example, though rather firm, was Return to PEGBAM. I died N1 again though :S.

So apparently when I'm calm I die N1 :V.

@Nacho: Yeah, but your real stated reasons kinda suck too.

[UncertainKitten]

Am I exempt from this Vasu? Since I've kinda been saying the same thing, 'cept in different ways?

Also, I see I've merited Nacho's sig. AWESOME!

Anyway, scum benefit from holding back scum reads since it gives less implicative information when someone looks back at them. Further, it gives them more claimspace, though that is a lot less relevant in an open set up, so I wouldn't worry as much about this point. Also, if scum choose not to provide scum reads, it also prevents them from having to either fabricate a case or bus a buddy. Fabricated cases are a *really* good way to catch scum, especially with the intent approach.

So, no, I really don't agree that holding back scum reads benefits town whatsoever, but maybe Jack can argue that one since you don't seem to care to?

[UncertainKitten]

Ooh, good rebuttal Jack. Confirmation bias is indeed a bad thing. I'll have to consider that in the future.

I think as it applies to Nacho's case though it's starting to fall into scummy.

[UncertainKitten]

...has Antihero even been posting lately? Cause if he hasn't, I think I may just switch to his wagon. I want AGar dead but if Antihero is just gonna roll over and give up, so much the better.

[UncertainKitten]

...wat?

Unvote, Vote Antihero

L-Too fucking Much.

This is the third vote on him. ANTIHERO NEEDS VOTES BADLY!

[UncertainKitten]

Psst! Haylen! Vote Antihero while you're doing all that!

[UncertainKitten]

@Nacho: Well, the problem is, I've been experimenting with scumhunting from wagons on me. What I've concluded is I'm much more likely to think you are scum if you are voting me. Therefore, I'm *trying* to put brakes on my kneejerk reaction. At first I thought you were pretty sincere but that read is slowly changing.

@LMP: I've noticed. I'm curious where it will lead. And VV's case is p. good, IMO .

@VV: It's much less that Antihero is lurking, though that's what made me decide I wanted a noose around his neck. Particularly the lurking here but no where else thing, which is kinda damning. He's made several scummy contradictions that Jack has pointed out.

Also, funny thing is that towns that *didn't* lynch lurkers, in my experience, lost a lot more.

@Jack: I can show several examples of scum catch up posts in my own history. I usually win when I do them :V.

@LMP: Theoretically scum benefit from tunneling if it goes unremarked. It never does though, so it's rare that you'll implicate a scum solely on tunneling.

@VV: Lynching lurkers early is *better*. From both a gameplay and a pro town standpoint.

@Jack: I assume Nocmen means when they ~*~always~*~ do it, voting solely to be on the biggest or next biggest wagon.

OK!

[UncertainKitten]

Xine defending AGar is noted. Might be meaningless though. Just sayan.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, I think it had a purpose. It just doesn't have a purpose *yet*, Nacho .

I'm not fencesitting, I merely lack data right now.

[UncertainKitten]

That's OK Lowell. You still are an *amazing* lynch and I plan to make it happen as soon as we get your scumbuddies out of the way ^-^

[UncertainKitten]

Got Snake lynched didn't I? I was *wrong* there, but I got him lynched. Can't be wrong every time .

[UncertainKitten]

Not at all. I'm assuming he's just being all *cool* or something.

[UncertainKitten]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Unvote, Vote Nacho

[UncertainKitten]

Nacho's lying. I suggest you *very closely* look at both our posting histories and decide who's been more pro town rather than frittering away a lynch on Nacho being scum.

[UncertainKitten]

Also, real cop, don't counterclaim. Even if this town is dumb enough to lynch me first, there's no need to give Nacho scum what he likely wants.

[UncertainKitten]

No. God you all are dicktarded.

Just gonna herp derp follow the "cop" quote unquote lol Nacho is as much as cop as I am a...something I'm not >=[!

I swear to God if I get lynched this will be the worst playing town in the history of fucking mafia.

[UncertainKitten]

For once I'm actually not lying after being "copped". Nacho CANNOT be a cop with that result. He's so full of shit his eyes are brown.

[UncertainKitten]

Ah, how motherfucking stupid you are nopoint.

Fortunately, I have a claim to pull out of my ass if you get me to L-1. If town is smart, they won't force it out of me. But, alas, sometimes these things happen when you're dealing with dumbasses.

[UncertainKitten]

No point: Do you really think I could fakeclaim in this set up? Do you have a motherfucking brain? Do you know how to fucking use it?

No, I have a solid claim.

And if I am the SK, Jack, you're lynching Nacho, not being fucking retarded.

[UncertainKitten]

Sure they would, but I think you know I'm the SK, don't you Jack?

You said it yourself earlier. I'd probably kill CJ. I think several other people have pointed out that I've been dropping SK tells.

Yes, I've decided to claim.

I am the motherfucking SK and Nacho is so motherfucking scummy it's sad. Now lynch that asshole rather than being fucktarded

[UncertainKitten]

Also, who do you all want me to shoot tonight?

[UncertainKitten]

In fact, how about we do this! We lynch Antihero, and I'll shoot Nacho tonight. Two scum bagged, bang bang.

Any better ideas that don't involve lynching me because that would be pretty damn stupid at this point when I can be pretty useful as a vig?

Further, even if I'm lying and NOT the SK, you do realize you still have control of the SK, right? Keeping me alive means they get to blend in. Killing who town says they should kill keeps me alive. Obviously I can't be let live to lylo, but fuck it, I lost when Nacho busted out that bullshit fucking claim.

It's SO fucking unfair.

[UncertainKitten]

Also, Nacho is going to claim that he was just trying to force me to claim based on SK suspicion. Don't believe him.

[UncertainKitten]

Take a look at the first post. It's right there. In this game, the SK is investigation immune.

And no, I'm not that great at mafia. If I were actually good, I would have found a way out of Nachos NOT investigation without claiming. I've slipped out of guilties before. I couldn't make it out of this one.

[UncertainKitten]

Except the CLAIMED COP IS OBVIOUSLY FUCKING LYING! What the fuck is wrong with your dumbass head nopoint!?

And I'm shooting nacho in the fucking face tonight to end this farce.

Unless you all give me a DAMNED good case for anyone better. A DAMNED good case.

You clearly aren't fucking thinking this through no point, and I do not have the patience for fucktardedness.

GET YOUR MOTHERFUCKING HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND ACTUALLY FIGURE OUT HOW THE FUCKING GAME IS PLAYED, DUMBASS!!

/me breathes heavily

I feel a lot better now, actually.

[UncertainKitten]

I *can* PARTIALLY accept leaving Nacho alive, but I want a DAMNED good substitute. A DAMNED good one.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, fortunately, the town's wishes are not solely YOUR wishes nopoint. Because if they were, we'd all be fucked.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, they'd all be fucked. I've already claimed not town :V.

[UncertainKitten]

I'd say that's pretty dumb because for right now having a vig is a bigger advantage since you've gained a lynch. Rather than trading one scum for one SK, you COULD be shooting the entire scum team. Town controlled kills are a big advantage.

...did Jack just claim scum? Are you really that stupid Jack?

Hell, fuck it, lynch me, clearly the entire scum team wants me dead!

[UncertainKitten]

Look, the minute Nacho claimed a cop result on me, and it turned out we had a follow the fucking cop town, I had lost. I'm TRYING to make what I can of it, but now Jack scum is going to jump in and fuck things up more. So you know what? You're welcome town. You get TWO fucking scum in exchange for my death.

I can't believe that Jack and Nacho are both this utterly dicktarded. And if you two are town, you STILL better fucking be lynched because this is the dumbest thing I have ever had the misfortune of seeing you do. I used to respect you as players.

Clearly you just are good at disguising how fucking RETARDED you are!!!!!!!!

HOLY FUCKING SHIT NO POINT FOUND HIS FUCKING BRAIN!!!!!

[UncertainKitten]

And that would mean Jack is the most fucking stupid VT I've had the misfortune of playing with.

And he'll need to pay for it with a lynch after I die. Don't.
Fucking.
Let
Him
Get
Away
With
That
BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!

[UncertainKitten]

Well, I'm headed to bed in a few minutes anyway. Just fucking lynch me like the idiots you are. And then make sure you lynch Jack and Nacho.

[UncertainKitten]

Well then why don't you shoot him if you're the SK, Jack?

OH WAIT, YOU AREN'T YOU LYING FUCKER.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, whatev, heading to bed.

[UncertainKitten]

You all are fucking retards and I hope you all die in a fucking fire.
Seriously. I hope I never have to play with ANY of you motherfucking ASSHOLES again.

Also, I'm going to flip SK.

I hope the mafia quickly dispatch all you morons.

You don't deserve to win.

You don't deserve to LIVE!

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, final thoughts before NS gets back to seal your UTTER
FUCKTARDERY!

Nacho and Jack are scum. So is Antihero.

YOU BETTER lynch those fuckers or you all are even STUPIDER than I thought, which is pretty damn hard at this point.

Truculent jackasses.

[UncertainKitten]

NO. SERIOUSLY. YOU ALL DID NOT FUCKING USE YOUR BRAINS! YOU ALL JUST HERP FUCKING DERPED THIS UP IN THE WORST FUCKING WAY POSSIBLE!!!

YOU ALL ARE A FUCKING INSULT TO MAFIA!!!

[UncertainKitten]

@AGar: Drop the SK discussion for now. It can be resumed tomorrow. Right now, it detracts from a UK lynch, which is bad.

NACHO IS EVEN FUCKING CLAIMING SCUM HERE! But does ANYONE point this out? OF COURSE FUCKING NOT! YOU ALL ARE GODDAMNED DIPSHITS!

[UncertainKitten]

Also, LMP has the distinguished role of town MVP. He's the only one that actually thought for TWO FUCKING SECONDS. You all should learn from him.

RC and Xine in particular are egregiously fucktarded offenders of the art of thought. Good job being dumb, dumbasses.

[UncertainKitten]

You know, I think at this point I'm less mad and more trolling, but it's fun repeatedly and correctly insulting your intelligence because y'all are fucking idiots.

Don't think I used idiots yet, even if I've used fucktards about 11 times.

At least I'll be fucking up a page of rereading for y'all when you realize I was telling the truth and it was pretty fucking obvious to all but the most simple minded of morons!

[UncertainKitten]

...I wonder if Guile's theme would go with this.

Hey, guys, you all should listen to Guile's theme while reading my posts! It'll make it more fun while you realize just how you all don't even deserve to be slime under my favorite boots.

[UncertainKitten]

So, I guess I should grudgingly apologize for things I said at the end of Day 2. But really only grudgingly.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, also, shouldn't I be a Town Miller Vigilante :V? (Only thing missing would be NK Immunity )

[UncertainKitten]

Well, I would have won if I hadn't been copped incorrectly .

(OK, maybe not. But we'll never know and that's a little irritating. Regardless, mistakes do happen and it was handled well)

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Won as SK, I mean.

[UncertainKitten]

That's ok Nacho. I'll just vig you the next game we're in together <3.

[UncertainKitten]

On a completely related note, the Antihero/LMP interaction could not have been more obivous. The only real mistake I feel I made was listening to other people about RedCoyote, and not sticking to that scumpair.

Hell, you all should have lynched anti hero the MINUTE it became obvious he had *only* flaked in this game and none of his other ones.