Mafia 121 -- Picking Simplicity Game Over

[UncertainKitten]

@Snake: Why aren't you helping the town? Why are you wasting time trying to convince me that I'm scum? Scumhunt. Come up with a real case. I've only been exhorting you to do that all game.

If you have a real case feel free to direct it at the town but try to stay in the realm of fact, at least ^-^.

@Haylen: ISO him. Come to your own conclusions. Use the brain I assume you have.

[LimMePls]

Would you like the explain the Snake wagon?

Missed this part. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Just ISO him, it's pretty obvious. Here is a list of scummy things Snake has done/said.

Right I haven't disappeared for pages in fact I think you'll find me on the last one. I am playing in 4 games currently and I am mod ding one off site, so it's a bit hard keeping notes on where I am in each one.

So not voting on Emp because he posts a lot? I think you'll find posting a whole lot is actually a scum tell as they tend to overcompensate to try and make themselves look like town by being an active 'scum hunter' then there's the other end of the scale where the lurkers avoid posting to keep their neck out of the noose and be forgotten about.

Are we anywhere near endgame anyway Lowell?

Absurd "posting alot = scummy" argument.

Really? Well UK your dumber than I thought then. Why exactly is it another reason? You still are yet to provide anything of worth to back that up. However I do agree with Emp looking the scummiest. I go back to my previous over posting theorem.

vote Empking

Obv bandwagon vote when pressure starts to mount on him.

Hey I don't mind if you lynch me as that will protect a power role for one more night. But your all going to look mighty silly when I flu town and Glork and/or Espy don't.

AtE.

Hey I won't bother dropping myself in it any deeper as I've screwed up from tye word go. I'm town, but your about to find that out real soon.

More AtE.

It depends on the frequency of posting throughout the game by everyone. Don't forget there will be those who will coast in the background to avoid getting picked out. But in my experience there is always at least one who really goes for it. Im not suggesting that you all follow my read, it's how I see the game. My judgement in part is made from that or at least for somewhere to start looking for the scum.

More trying to defend "lots of posting = scummy" terrible logic.

Better get ready then.

More more AtE.

So if im lynched and when I flip town who are you looking at for Scum? Oh, that would be you perhaps for pushing the lynch maybe?

Ridiculous suggestion that UK is scum for pushing his lynch.

I've screwed this game up enough...

unvote vote Snake

I know self voting is scummy, but I'm no good to you all here now. Apologies for not playing my best. Someone hammer pls and then you can sort out who the real scum are.

Do I really have to explain this one.

Seriously Haylen, what is hard to understand about this wagon? I don't care if you agree, but I don't understand how it is hard to follow. This is why I say I think you're lazy. Reading his ISO doesn't take much effort, its on one page.

[Jack]

I've screwed this game up enough...

unvote vote Snake

I know self voting is scummy, but I'm no good to you all here now. Apologies for not playing my best. Someone hammer pls and then you can sort out who the real scum are.

Post the playerlist in order from scummiest to least scummy please...

To summarise: You've got nothing on me and I think you're just mentioning something about me to make it look as though you're posting content when you really arent.

No he just said you were "not scummy but lazy" so of course he "has nothing on you" and it's a short sentence so how is it like he's trying to pretend content?

[Haylen]

Seriously Haylen, what is hard to understand about this wagon?

I'm thick. We haven't realised this yet? I've also explained that i've had assignments and been in hospital.

AtoE isn't scummy in itself but I think he is trying to make town scared of lynching him especially with the premature claim. Posting a lot can be a scumtell for some people, there's a certain player I know who's posts are slightly longer when he's scum and I've never found a game where it hasn't been - it's not a case of whether an argument is logical or illogical, it's whether or not the arguer has the evidence to back up their view point. UK could be scum pushing his lynch are you saying that you know her alignment? And as I already explained, that last quote is anti-game.

@ Jack - he's trying to pretend to be posting content by using those out of context quotes as evidence.

[LimMePls]

try putting what you're writing into context before you post it.

1. Did you not read the first post you quoted? I was ILL, I had Bronchitis.

Frankly, and I know this will sound rude, but I don't care. I find the IRL excuses (I'm sick, I'm busy, I'm tired, my dog ate my homework) both unnecessary and frankly a bit scummy (because I see them as a form of AtE - ie. "Don't judge me, I've got excuses!"). If you can't play, then go V/LA until you can. If you can't play over an extended period, then replace out (and I hope you feel better soon). But if you choose to stick in the game, but don't put any effort in, I have no sympathy for the excuses, and yes it looks lazy.

2. I asked about the case on you and nobody answered.

This is untrue. I answered, and I know someone else did as well. Also, why can't you read the game and find the answer yourself? I have a theory why you can't (HINT: Your play is lazy) Do you want me to go quote the posts for you? Cause I will (cause I'm not lazy).

3. I was stating something about Jack's SK thing and then Nikanor answered it to a satisfactory standard.

You said you were "not sure" about Jack's "SK obsession". So why not do something about it (ask questions, reread, ANYTHING) until you can be sure. Just throwing up your hands and declaring you are "not sure" without following up on it is lazy.

4. I have asked someone to explain the whole Snake thing and guess what! Nobody has!

THIS IS WHY I CALL YOU LAZY. This game isn't that hard to follow. We're only on page 16, and there have only been a half dozen or so major issues. If you don't understand something, read it again! It can't be that hard, all the other players (ok, MOST of the other players) seem to be able to follow it just fine.

5. And that is the point, my day one play is mostly asking questions and gathering information. I don't know how to play Day One without any.

But asking questions doesn't do any good if you don't follow them up with anything. To me it comes off as lazy to ask a question, get answers, and then never give us an opinion/interpretation/reaction/follow-up-question about them. It reeks of active lurking (Let me ask some questions! See how productive I am?)

6. You just randomly put that last quote in there.

If you don't see how:

Atm, I really am unable to see any truth in mothrax's or agars statement except what he has twisted out of proportion when I look at it through my own eyes. My gut is confused at the moment because it is not giving me reads on anybody. Stupid gut.

is lazy, then I don't know if I can help you. If you are unable to see any truth to their statements, throwing your hands up and copping out "stupid gut" is lazy. PUSH THEM OVER IT. ASK THEM SOME QUESTIONS! DO YOU THINK THEY'RE BEING SCUMMY!? WHY/WHY NOT!?

To summarise: You've got nothing on me and I think you're just mentioning something about me to make it look as though you're posting content when you really arent.

This comment is hypocrisy to the max. Absolutely hysterical, and only proves my point.

PEDIT:

@ Jack - he's trying to pretend to be posting content by using those out of context quotes as evidence.

PRETEND!? OUT OF CONTEXT!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME! They are evidence of you being lazy, and they are most certainly not out of context. I say you are lazy and not scummy, because I don't see scum motivations/intentions in your play. Wow... simply wow.

[Haylen]

When you regain some of your composure, I might decide to write a reply.

[Jack]

@ Jack - he's trying to pretend to be posting content by using those out of context quotes as evidence.

I missed that your quote came after the post where he had the quotes.

But accusing him of faking content at this stage of the game is a bit bizzare. On the whole it just sounds like you took the "lazy" comment personally

[LimMePls]

Truth hurts.

[Haylen]

It is faking though because he put none of what he said into context and a few of those quotes look like they shouldn't be there at all. I'm not being lazy, ok...im being slightly lazy cause I'm constantly tired, but overall not as lazy as I in im not doing anything.

LMP, don't push it.

[SnakePlissken]

Lynch diving on Haylen like that because she offered me advice is not particularly nice or your tone to her explanations
@Jack I will do as soon as I get to a PC it's a nightmare to do on my iPad.
@emp you've gone quiet of late hoping to slip by this round while ingot lynched perhaps?
@Lynch I think you agrees ion towards my obvious scumminess is blinding your judgement some what. Ask yourself this if you so sure I'm scum and when its revealed I'm not what will be your position then? Same question to @UK as well.
@Glork you seem to have placed your vote and done a runner too...

[Empking]

I've said all I have to say. I'm willing to hammer you but I consider LMP scummier.

[eldarad]

@Jack - I agree #300 has an odd "tone". He's right that CJ didn't confirm in-thread beforehand but it doesn't seem to warrant the attack on Haylen for a point that isn't even the main thrust of her post.

My gut reaction is that mothrax and Haylen are scumbuddies manufacturing an argument to create distance. But then on page 14 AGar picks it up and runs with it which kinda throws me off a bit. But then, can I see a Snake-mothrax-Haylen-AGar scumteam? Well at the moment, yeah, I can...

~~~
@LMP - I'm fairly meh about the Empking case. I don't like Emp's case on Yos at all - as I mentioned earlier I think the very first building block of the case is flawed and so the whole house of cards falls down (I prefer "fruit from the poisoned tree" but I don't want to use the same metaphor twice...)

Yos' case is good, I can't fault it and agree with much of it...but it leaves me empty. At no point have I felt like voting Empking despite the good points that Yos is/was making.

~~~
Nik, Vas - why do you oppose a Snake lynch?

~~~
This post would have been made 45 minutes earlier if I hadn't been distracted by the Axis of Awesome:
http://axisofawesome.net/index/?page_id=3

[UncertainKitten]

@Snake: I'll reassess if that time comes. It wouldn't be too hard to figure out the wagon behavior around you if you were to flip town. But for now there's no real reason to ^-^.

[LimMePls]

Lynch diving on Haylen like that because she offered me advice is not particularly nice or your tone to her explanations

Well I'm not trying to make friends and influence people, I'm speaking the truth as I see it. If some people can't handle that, it's not my fault. I'll fully admit my "tone" isn't "nice", but frankly, I'm frustrated with a post every 5 pages asking everyone else to explain things, and then posting "no one explained when I asked" when that is simply false followed by "I'm not lazy!" It's absurd.

@Lynch I think you agrees ion towards my obvious scumminess is blinding your judgement some what. Ask yourself this if you so sure I'm scum and when its revealed I'm not what will be your position then?

If you read what I've said, this is obvious. I think that an Azazel/Antihero scum pair is likely and I think Empking is scummy. They will be an excellent place to start tomorrow, plus the analysis of your wagon. The question seems like ANOTHER AtE (don't lynch me, you won't know what to do if I'm town).

My turn: You admit that you have "obvious scumminess", to the point that you were willing to self vote. If you were in another player's shoes, would you lynch you? Why/why not?

[AGar]

I endorse the statements of LMP right now.

[Jack]

unvote, vote:snake

[Nikanor]

until that happens I see no reason to assume you are anything but scum.

Reread this and tell me this doesn't look stupid.

I think that Snake and Haylen are town because they are acting like town.

LMP, do you find Haylen scummy? How about Snake?

[SnakePlissken]

Late jump in Jack?

[UncertainKitten]

@Nikanor: I'm afraid I don't see your point. I've explained, I thought rather clearly, why snake's behavior is indicative of scum. For those that missed it, it's the fact that he refuses to do anything actively pro town, create cases that make any sort of sense outside of "THEY ATTACKED ME >=[!", and overall do anything remotely pro town.

Do you have some sort of reason to believe Snake is town, Nika? Because I would absolutely

looooooooooveeeeeeee

to hear what you come up with.

[UncertainKitten]

Yes, my last post is redundant. Some people miss it the first time. It's really the only point I need to stand on.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.08


SnakePlissken - 10 - Antihero, eldarad, Xine, mothrax, AGar, CJMiller, UncertainKitten, Yosarian2, LynchMePls, Jack
Empking - 2 - Nikanor, VasudeVa
CJMiller - 2 - Lowell, Haylen
LynchMePls - 2 - Empking, Azazel


Not Voting: jmj3000, Sudo_Nym, Glork, SnakePlissken


With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline: November 17

Random notes:

-- Azazel has not picked up his Prod PM. In about 12 hours, he will be at the point of replacement unless he posts in the thread prior. I will not be online until tomorrow morning to seek a replacement.
-- SnakePlissken is at L-1.
-- Haylen is on V/LA until Monday-ish.

[LimMePls]

until that happens I see no reason to assume you are anything but scum.

Reread this and tell me this doesn't look stupid.

I think that Snake and Haylen are town because they are acting like town.

LMP, do you find Haylen scummy? How about Snake?

I already said I find Haylen lazy, not necessarily scummy, and I'm voting Snake. Isn't this obvious?

[Haylen]

V/LA for Weekend. Maybe slightly longer.

Noted. But don't be

too

long. ~~NS

[Nikanor]

@Nikanor: I'm afraid I don't see your point. I've explained, I thought rather clearly, why snake's behavior is indicative of scum. For those that missed it, it's the fact that he refuses to do anything actively pro town, create cases that make any sort of sense outside of "THEY ATTACKED ME >=[!", and overall do anything remotely pro town.

So basically, you're saying he's guilty until he proves himself town.
The thing is, he's a complete newb. I don't find it that surprising that he hasn't done anything pro-town or made any cases. He's just an easy target.
The first four members of his wagon are Antihero, eldarad, Xine and mothrax. Not only do I believe that at least one of those four is scum, I believe that none of those four would bus a buddy that quickly in a 20p game.

Yes, my last post is redundant. Some people miss it the first time. It's really the only point I

need

have to stand on.

FTFY.

I already said I find Haylen lazy, not necessarily scummy, and I'm voting Snake. Isn't this obvious?

Not when you're attacking Haylen.

[Jack]

unvote, vote:mothrax