Oldy Mafia (Game Over, who won?)

[MrBuddyLee]

And me too. You guys have rekindled my interest in chamber.

I'd like to hear your fuller opinion of chamber, independent of Yos's and stark's opinions.

[stark]

So right now, I want:

-

Revised response from Ectomancer to 163

-Response from chamber to 193

[Patrick]

Votecount

chamber (1) -- Yosarian2
CrashTextDummie (1) -- IH
Ectomancer (3) -- Ythill, stark, MrBuddyLee
Ythill (1) -- HackerHuck
Untrod Tripod (7) -- CrashTextDummie, Flameaxe, chamber, Mert, Cogito Ergo Sum, Fritzler, Glork
inHimshallibe (2) -- Lord Gurgi, Shanba
Mert (1) -- inHimshallibe
Fritzler (1) -- Untrod Tripod

Not voting: Ectomancer
18 alive, 10 to lynch.

[Glork]

Okay guys, who are the scums?

[Yosarian2]

@yos

Me wanting to wagon you isn't indicative of me thinking that you are scum?

If you were town, and actually thought I was scum, I'd expect you to, like, attack me, or vote me, or say "Hey, look, Yosarian's scummy" or something. You have a one-off comment trying to get CES to "wagon Ythill or Yos" that sounded like you wanted us to think it was a joke, although it really wasn't, and never mentioned either of us again.

So, no, that's really not indicative of you being a pro-town person who thinks I'm scum.

[chamber]

Well, now you know for the future. I don't just wagon

anybody

.

[Glork]

Goddamn, there are way too many people in this game who I would blindly wagon with D1. What happens if Yos, CES, and Fritz all tell me to vote for different people? Does the world explode?

Mert is protown. First use of "to be honest" is p much always protown.

Put THAT in your secret tell pipe and smoke it.



I will freely admit, I'm having a hard time generating reads right now, probably due to the nature of the playerlist. I'd say something sappy and mostly full of shit like "I just love you all too much to lynch," but that's entirely untrue. I like lynching you motherfuckers.


The biggest thing I'm getting is that I don't like Flameaxe's "I agree with CTD" post. I think CTD is stretching a little bit, and flat agreement makes me groan.
That, and I'm seeing nothing but Vintage Protown Fritzler. Dude needs doc protected like every night from here until eternity. Oh, and inHim looks protown, too. I like the "we have good info if CTD is scum" post.

@Flameaxe: Eh, I think you have good points against UT as UT continued to poorly defend himself. I'm still not sold on your initial attack, though, and feel you could be scum that lucked out with poor responses, because I think UT is town that got frustrated when he was misnterpreted.
---
With Ecto's line of reasoning, I can follow him and can see the merits from his perspective. Ythill's attack on him is pro-town in execution and probably even on principle, but he's not stepping into Ecto's gameview; Ecto's "Wiki 101" criticism was harsh, but not necessarily unfounded. I am not in favor of a starkwagon.

Fritzler is returning to good form. :coo:

:glorksignal:

GODDAMN, YOU ARE ONE PROTOWN SONOFABEEYTOCH.

I like Ythill's posting... namely, his town/null/scum categorization. I don't agree with all of it, but I like that he put it out there. I don't like his interaction with CTD, though, as I also have been fine with CTD's level of scumhunting.

I'm not feeling the UT wagon. I would like to see more pressure on Ecto, especially in light of MBL's post (*cringe*).

Unvote, Vote: Ecto

Aaaaand UT's vote on Fritzler is :badposting:. OMGUS to the max.
EDIT: And Fritz pointed this out.
EDITEDIT: And inHim pointed out Fritz's pointing this out.


All things considered, I'm on the fence re: UT.
I like MBL's questioning of Ecto.
Fritz, CES, and inHim are looking solidly protown.

Vote stays on Ecto for now, but I would probably be willing to coax a claim out of UT.

[Ectomancer]

I wont be around much on Wed-Sat. Likely my activity will be much lower than per my usual game. Lots of things going on. Climb onboard my train if you want, but MBL's post is basically "why aren't you doing stuff if you're so about stuff and all?". My reply is because I'm not. I've made my answer to the first few pages worth of game and shan't be playing rehash. The game has progressed beyond that stage as surely as it did the rvs before that. If these votes are to squeeze more activity out of me, or cause me to toss my vote around, don't bother. I really wont be budged. I'll contribute as I observe things and when a vote needs placing, it will be placed. My posting will likely be sparse interspersed with catch up days of activity, likely Mondays. Have a great Thanksgiving all

[Ythill]

I'd like to hear your fuller opinion of chamber, independent of Yos's and stark's opinions.

Not much to say. I have him at null. He's been playing lite and bandwagoning in a way that's hard to read in the early game. The post I attacked him for originally was explained to my satisfaction but that doesn't make him town.

Thing is, I read his "Ythill or Yos" post as reaction-fishing, which would explain the lack of conviction. Now he's saying it meant he suspected Yos, which seems off.

I also have been fine with CTD's level of scumhunting.

I'm not feeling the UT wagon.

These two sentences do not go well together. Can you expand on these views and help me understand how you believe both?

[Glork]

I also have been fine with CTD's level of scumhunting.

I'm not feeling the UT wagon.

These two sentences do not go well together. Can you expand on these views and help me understand how you believe both?

CTD was one of the first to transition into real, concrete scumhunting. He took the initiative to iso Ecto during your exchange with him, and commented on how he felt that you came out looking slightly better than Ecto. He called out Fritzler for percieved lazy play, asked you to elaborate, and his exchange with inHim comes across as genuine.
I'm not sure how you can be unimpressed with his degree of scumhunting, especially when compared to a number of other players.


As far as not feeling the UT wagon, it is extremely lazy. A bit more lazy than I'd expect from this group of players, once we got out of the random bullshit stage. I have some minor misgivings about UT's behavior since garnering some pressure (in particular, I think CTD's "UT has clammed up" comment is right on the money), but it's not enough to convince me that he needs dead. If a UT lynch goes through and he flips town, I'd expect the wagon to be chock full of scums -- most likely two in the {Flameaxe, chamber, Mert} block, with a possible token pile-on at the end of the wagon.

As far as liking CTD, but disagreeing with his conclusion (which is what I assume you mean by "These two sentences do not go well together"), I'm not even sure I need to get into that. I liked that you posted a list of scumminess categories, even though I don't agree with all of your conclusions either. That's far from out of the ordinary, and for you to insinuate that I can't agree with someone's gampleay and disagree with their suspicions is bothersome.

[Ythill]

At the time I criticized his hunting, all he had done was make those attacks against CES and UT, and pressure me after I called him out. I suppose one of the differences between our views is that you thought he "took the initiative to iso Ecto" whereas all I saw was him saying that he did it, so I didn't take it as gospel.

As far as liking CTD, but disagreeing with his conclusion (which is what I assume you mean by "These two sentences do not go well together"), I'm not even sure I need to get into that.

My contention was that CTD's main thrust has been versus UT and has been the only explicit reason for much of the UT wagon. It wasn't just a case of you disagreeing with someone you see as town but, rather, you saying that a single statement (the attack vs. UT) was good on one hand and bad on the other. Your larger view of CTD explains that apparent contradiction to my satisfaction.

[Lord Gurgi]

Hey, hey, hey guys. Good to see Glork posting. I'm still happy to see inHim lynched and the Wagon of Champions (A.K.A. Chamber Wagon '12) is returning with a vengeance not dissimilar from a spurned woman. I read everything and there's not too much worth commenting on.

Wagonning Ecto to try and affect his play is silly and somewhat charming in the same way that a child is when it sticks its head inbetween two posts.

Ecto: I think it's perfectly valid to ask why a tell ought not to apply to me. It's what I'd do if I were not one of the related people, so I don't think it's bad play.

Chamber playing the newbie card is not kosher to me.

I'd also consider a HH wagon. Most of his posts criticise lurkers or lurker-defenders, yet he is lurking. Bam bam lynch lynch.

Anyone else running into problems of "But you can't lynch

him

day one" with half of our player list?

[stark]

I wont be around much on Wed-Sat. Likely my activity will be much lower than per my usual game. Lots of things going on. Climb onboard my train if you want, but

MBL's post is basically "why aren't you doing stuff if you're so about stuff and all?". My reply is because I'm not. I've made my answer to the first few pages worth of game and shan't be playing rehash.

The game has progressed beyond that stage as surely as it did the rvs before that.

Dear Ectomancer,

Either you are lazy and stupid, or you are scum pretending to be lazy and stupid. How can you dismiss legitimate inquiries into your play as insubstantial and redundant?

You have spend most of your posts elucidating ad nauseum on your D1 strategy that is apparently both meticulously planned out and "exactly what a town needs".

In essence, MBL asked:

"When the conditions under which your "strategy" could be implemented emerged, (in this case CTD vs. UT), why did you not move to "Focus the town into a single issue involving 2 players, rather than allowing scum to scatter and obfuscate their opinions across multiple vectors"? Is this not "exactly what a town needs"?

To boot, you had previously expounded on the pro-town nature of the early removal of "unknown quantities"

Lo and behold!:

First to post. Sweet.

I don't think we've played together.

You, stark and

untried tripod

are not recognizable to me. Tripods give me grief.

vote Tripod

Let me ask you a question:

Is it pro-town for a player to not attack another player who they feel to be an ideal target using what he feels to be a legitimate line of attack?

Because it appears that all the conditions for moving forward with your "nice piece of reverse psychology" were met. And yet you managed to do absolutely nothing. Are you seriously claiming that you were too busy defending yourself to scumhunt?

If these votes are to squeeze more activity out of me, or cause me to toss my vote around, don't bother.

I really wont be budged

You're not voting for anyone. Where do you think people are trying to budge you from?


Hope to hear from you soon

xoxo,
stark

[Lord Gurgi]

:goodposting:

[Ectomancer]

Ecto: I think it's perfectly valid to ask why a tell ought not to apply to me. It's what I'd do if I were not one of the related people, so I don't think it's bad play.

That's why it was only half a point. It was not a full scum scene, townie elements existed too.

[Ectomancer]

:goodposting:

Heh, you didn't read it if that's your opinion on it It's full of Ad Hom, combined with self-answering questions like "You are parked on your vote. How could people possibly want to budge you from that position?" I also enjoy it when he points out the consistency in my voting for UT, an unknown quantity, and then voting for stark, another unknown quantity and acts as though he has found an

inconsistency

by trying to extrapolate it out into a question on why I am not pursuing page 2 strategies on page 9.

Stark, you start making personal insults, and this is going to get REAL ugly, REAL quick, you understand? Right now, you can fuck off.

[Glork]

So Ecto, which player do you think is most likely to be scum right now, and approximately how likely are they to be scum?

Bonus points if you name and explain that player's most likely scumbuddy.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ecto

,

lazy and stupid

was a wee bit harsh, but otherwise stark's post was spot-on. How are we supposed to ascertain your alignment right now? You look more like scum than anyone in this game at the moment, and you're being intentionally obtuse in a futile attempt to make your pursuers look bad. It's not going to work, and you're going to rack up justified votes.

If you're town, intentionally giving everyone valid reasons to vote you doesn't help the town. If you're scum, you're boring.

IH

, what kind of phone do you have? Because you suck at posting from it. If it's like an enV, this makes perfect sense, but if you have an iPhone or Droid, everyone should switch their votes to your lurky ass.

[Ythill]

Hrm... it's hard to tell whether Ecto's reaction is faked or not. Normally, a reaction to scum-or-stupid solidifies or disproves my read. This game is not going to be easy.

Meh. I've been parked for too long anyway.

UNVOTE: Ectomancer
VOTE: Mert

[MrBuddyLee]

Hrm... it's hard to tell whether Ecto's reaction is faked or not. Normally, a reaction to scum-or-stupid solidifies or disproves my read. This game is not going to be easy.

Meh. I've been parked for too long anyway.

UNVOTE: Ectomancer
VOTE: Mert

At first glance, I

really

don't like this vote change. Please explain your thoughts.

[stark]

:goodposting:

Heh, you didn't read it if that's your opinion on it It's full of Ad Hom, combined with self-answering questions like "You are parked on your vote. How could people possibly want to budge you from that position?" I also enjoy it when he points out the consistency in my voting for UT, an unknown quantity, and then voting for stark, another unknown quantity and acts as though he has found an

inconsistency

by trying to extrapolate it out into a question on why I am not pursuing page 2 strategies on page 9.

Stark, you start making personal insults, and this is going to get REAL ugly, REAL quick, you understand? Right now, you can fuck off.

What are you trying to do, steal my lunch money?

Nothing you have done in this game has been pro-town. You have refused to answer other players questions, read their posts, or contribute in any other meaningful way. You have done zero scum-hunting.

Why are you here?

[stark]

Hrm... it's hard to tell whether Ecto's reaction is faked or not. Normally, a reaction to scum-or-stupid solidifies or disproves my read. This game is not going to be easy.

Meh. I've been parked for too long anyway.

UNVOTE: Ectomancer
VOTE: Mert

I'm sorry it's difficult for you. You can do it! Keep on trying!

Don't run away from your problems.

[Ythill]

Please explain your thoughts.

They went something like this...

Ecto sounded insulted by scum-or-stupid, maybe I'm wrong about him. I should unvote. Reread #215. Well, actually, he sounded more focused on other things and being insulted was an afterthought. He's faking. Vote stays. Reread #215. Well, he does seem to have lost a lot of respect for stark's play, maybe being insulted was an afterthought because he was addressing Gurgi. I should unvote. Reread #215. Wait a minute, if he's really insulted, then

why

is he addressing Gurgi rather than stark? Vote stays. Fuck. I'm just going in circles. Should I unvote him or not? Well, I have been parked here for a long time, I should probably move to one of my other scumreads and see what happens. Okay, I'll do that.

Vote movement is good for the town.

[stark]

Please explain your thoughts.

They went something like this...

Ecto sounded insulted by scum-or-stupid, maybe I'm wrong about him. I should unvote. Reread #215. Well, actually, he sounded more focused on other things and being insulted was an afterthought. He's faking. Vote stays. Reread #215. Well, he does seem to have lost a lot of respect for stark's play, maybe being insulted was an afterthought because he was addressing Gurgi. I should unvote. Reread #215. Wait a minute, if he's really insulted, then

why

is he addressing Gurgi rather than stark? Vote stays. Fuck. I'm just going in circles. Should I unvote him or not? Well, I have been parked here for a long time, I should probably move to one of my other scumreads and see what happens. Okay, I'll do that.

Vote movement is good for the town.

Well, that's true. Unless you're trying to lynch someone. In which case that might be counterproductive.

Who else is on your scumdar, Ythill?

[Ythill]

As previously posted: Mert, BBM, HH, and Ecto. Leaning back that way on charter lately too.

I'm still willing to lynch Ecto at this point. Just not willing to park on him all day waiting for that to happen.