NY 120: Flash mafia 2. GAME OVER

[Parama]

Wait.
Screw it.

unvote, vote: mikeburnfire

I just realized how scummy he is. Derp.

[Fishythefish]

That's a much better vote. But still, voting seems a really bad idea. If people throw around votes, there's no way we will win. We should agree on a lynch - an IS lynch, preferably - before anyone votes.

[Parama]

1. There's a 50% chance this vote is right, statistically
2. I have 1 town read still alive (scum have done damn well at picking them off though..)
3. MBF is scumscumscumscum

Oh and the scumteam is definitely MBF/IS/vollkan or Espe but probably vollkan.

[Fishythefish]

If you are wrong about one of your scumreads, and you vote for the one that's wrong, you risk an instant loss.

If you wait until there is a decent consensus on one of your scumreads, then you don't take that risk.

I agree about IS, as I've said. I also think mbf and UT are likely scum.

[Untrod Tripod]

@mod:

UT hasn't posted for nearly two weeks. Please replace him.

I was happy with a Luchris lynch. I said I was. I didn't feel a need to keep yelling HAI GUIZE LET'S LYNCH THIS GUY over and over. Derp.

So, speaking of trying to coast, mbf has done nothing all game but ask for votecoaching and posting oneliners.

vote mbf

[Internet Stranger]

Bah, its not my fault that Luchris was acting so scummy. Dont you start putting the glasses of super hindsight +5 now and start pointing random body parts at me.

You saw what Luchris did. He lurked, he jumped on previous crappy wagons, he besmirched the town, he showed absolutely no regard to the fate of the town or himself, he used other townies to defend him and acted all flippant in the face of a lynch.

Parama, you may hate the way things are going. But blame Luchris and the scum, not me. Im the one thats actually trying to catch scum here. I seriously, honestly thought that the scum was in the bag and I was going to dangle his scummy spine out like some Predator trophy. Now I have to figure out why things are transpiring the way they do. I still think that I can save this town.

Im extremely suspicious of Vollkan and his superscum scoring system. I still think its full of crap. He had Luchris up near the top of his list, but yet he never voted for him. At the time, he couldnt have known that Luchris was actually innocent. Or did he? He felt it more necessary to glam up to Ythill and get in on his good side. I can see why, Ythill was rabid and ferocious when coming after me. I was mildly suspicious of Ythill, and was going to pretty much hand his ass to him today had Luchris turned up scum, but yet he turns up dead. Why? Its clear to see that Vollkan is trying to setup a quicklynch on me today. He knew Luchris was innocent, only the scum know that, hence his hesitation to vote for him. Why else would be try to hide by off-voting on MBF instead?

By killing Ythill, Vollkan and the scum can easily set me up by turning my aggressiveness and vigor against me. What a load of crap. I am so not falling for such tactics. I have caught tons of scum before trying to play this little game with me. It didnt work then, its so not going to work now.

Look at the facts yourself. Im here to lynch scum. If youre going to be awful like Luchris and act like a scumbag, of course im going to come after you. Right now, Vollkan is clearly the scummiest. His bogus list and the fact that he was trying to stay off any wagons seals the deal for me.

Vote:Vollkan

[Fishythefish]

I really dislike the number of votes being thrown around here. There's no way we should be voting before we've discussed this. Please unvote.

[Internet Stranger]

Who should I vote for then, Fishy? MBF? I got me the Vollkan scum pegged right there.

[Fishythefish]

You should at the very least wait for a volkan response.

No way is IS town.

vote: IS

[Fishythefish]

Also, that line of "scum set me up" is ridiculous when noone has even mentioned the NK.

[Fishythefish]

Actually, it's crazy to have the votes split up like this.

unvote

Everyone should really, really unvote. This is playing right into the scum's hands.

IS's reasoning on volkan is obvBS. The point system has been there all game, it hasn't got any scummier. It's pretty obviously metanull.

[mikeburnfire]

So, speaking of trying to coast, mbf has done nothing all game but ask for votecoaching and posting oneliners.

vote mbf

Hey, what about that time I strongarmed a lynch on Richard? You give me too little credit.

[mikeburnfire]

Also, when did we decide UT isn't scum? I think he could be.

[Parama]

No, UT is town. Pretty obvious town in fact.

[mikeburnfire]

Well I'm town too, so if you could point me to the evidence that shows UT isn't scum, I would be grateful.

[Fishythefish]

How on earth is UT "pretty obvious town"?

[mikeburnfire]

Also, seeing as how we are likely in LyLo, throwing two votes on somebody who hasn't even posted yet is dangerous, if not incredibly scummy. I request that the votes on me be withdrawn for now.

[mykonian]

votecount

mikeburnfire (2): Parama, Untrod Tripod
Vollkan (1): Internet Stranger

not voting (4): Battousai, Vollkan, mikeburnfire, Fishythefish

with 7 players, it is 4 to lynch

[vollkan]

Im extremely suspicious of Vollkan and his superscum scoring system. I still think its full of crap.

Why is your dislike of my scoring system at all relevant?

He had Luchris up near the top of his list, but yet he never voted for him. At the time, he couldnt have known that Luchris was actually innocent. Or did he? He felt it more necessary to glam up to Ythill and get in on his good side. I can see why, Ythill was rabid and ferocious when coming after me. I was mildly suspicious of Ythill, and was going to pretty much hand his ass to him today had Luchris turned up scum, but yet he turns up dead. Why? Its clear to see that Vollkan is trying to setup a quicklynch on me today. He knew Luchris was innocent, only the scum know that, hence his hesitation to vote for him. Why else would be try to hide by off-voting on MBF instead?

The attack IS is making here is a classic example of a conspiracy argument. He doesn't explain why my actions are

more likely

to come from scum than town. Instead, he takes a satellite view of my actions (ie. devoid of any consideration of my arguments or reasoning) and then constructs a narrative that fits his broad observations which is consistent with me being scum.

Shooting these sorts of arguments in their metaphorical feet is one of the reasons I use my points system, which functions as a sort of precommitment strategy. In a nutshell, IS claims that my refusal to wagon Luchris was opportunistic avoidance (not wanting to get tarred with the wagon). However, that's patently false. MBF took the highest position on my charts well before the Luchris wagon reached its last throes - and anybody can scan my meta to see that my rule of play is to only vote my top suspect (absent extreme circumstances such as those I mentioned in ISO63, namely where I need to vote somebody lower to avoid NL/a lynch on somebody even lower down).

Since, you haven't given any analysis whatsoever to the effect that my reasons for suspecting MBF (or, for that matter,

anybody

) are in any way dodgy or unreasonable.

So what you are basically arguing is

that it was scummy for me

not[/u] to depart from my established meta for the purposes of lynching a townie

.

IS+5

By killing Ythill, Vollkan and the scum can easily set me up by turning my aggressiveness and vigor against me. What a load of crap. I am so not falling for such tactics. I have caught tons of scum before trying to play this little game with me. It didnt work then, its so not going to work now.

lolwifom

It's particularly egregious given that if you genuinely believed what you are saying here, then surely it would make more sense to wait and see if I actually used Ythill's death in the way that you are preemptively accusing me of.

IS+5

[Internet Stranger]

Vollkan, youre still using the useless point system to try an incriminate me, arent you? Thats how its relevant. Its like youre some catholic school nun handing out demerits to the kids, trying to pump them up full of guilt and repentance. Everytime you pump in points into your arbitrary system as if youre collecting points in a video game, youre throwing another accusatory barb in my direction.

All youre doing with your system is creating an arbitrary crutch to lean on to excuse your actions. Its not pre-commitment, its the equivalent of the curtain for the Wizard from the Wizard of Oz. You really believe that you can excuse such blatant scummy behavior by using a railed system? How can you use points that you set arbitrarily as a method to auto-determine your actions when you yourself are setting the points? Its crap, plain and simple.

Youre right, it is a conspiracy argument. I already see through your trappings and if im not the only one not falling for it, then so be it. In the end, I shall have my vindication when you turn up to be scum. You cant sit there like some Ken doll, throw a wink and a smirk and just try to dismiss me and expect that to be the end of it. You expect me to con jure up your own defense for you either. All youre basically saying is that you get to lean on some point tally that you created, so you have free range to do whatever you want.

I dont need to create some detailed point by point analysis. All youre doing is trying to put the burden on me to do all the work, so you can just say "No, I didnt" and demand for more. Did you not see how Ythill was trying the same on me the previous day and I didnt bite? Its quite unfortunate that I was wrong then, but im definitely not wrong now.

Its quite simple really. You KNEW that Luchris was a townie, so of course you didnt want to change your points crutch around, because that would make you look too obvious. So by keeping your points inflated to MBF, you have an excuse to not be involved in the lynch. Like I said in the first sentence, you cant suddenly use hindsight glasses against me because only scum knew Luchris was innocent. Which is precisely what youre doing now. Of course youre not going to depart from a established meta, you purposely set it up to be that way in the first place. That means that there is no analysis to be made, you cant analyze made up scoring.

Why should I wait around and let you gather crazy fervor against me first? Youre the one trying to make me look bad and I can clearly see it, even if no one else does. Like I said earlier, you cant just wave your hand around like some jedi mind trick, throw a wink and a smile and assume that what I say doesnt have merit when it clearly does.

This isnt anything new, I am a constant daytime target. I been called an easy lynch before because Im not afraid to lay it out there for all to see. Im here to catch scum and its plain to see that youre trying to set me up here. I dont need to sit here and wait for you to shoot me. I see the threat against me and this town and its easy to see that you have been part of the scumteam all along.

My vote stays, im sure on this one.

[Parama]

vollkan IS using a useless point system, but you're doing plenty of stuff I hate as well.

Which is why we shouldn't lynch either of you today and instead go for MBF, who hasn't been quickhammered even with 2 votes on him (and I know I'm town and feel UT is town, so this is pretty damning in my eyes).

[mikeburnfire]

Vollkan, I agree that your point system is no good. I can understand doling out points for scummy behavior, but if you reduce it to a point system, it loses a lot of context that is subject to change. Also, you never seem to subtract points that you have given, so when I've explained my actions that seemed scummy, I don't change in your ranking like I should. Additionally, the difference in points that you have assigned is very slim, so much that a few townie mistakes or speaking missteps could swing your opinion.

Parama is scummy for his recent posts "Fishy, IS, and vollkan are scum, and I will vote them because I am willing to bet the game on it. No, wait, vote MBF". But, such crazy behavior could be from a frustrated townie, and seeing the amount of effort he's put into this game, I believe that this could be the case. I'm indecisive on his lynch.

IS has recently attracted my eye, though. For one thing, he was one of the people encouraging a lynch after the roleblocker claim, which is suspicious. This particular business of "We can't possibly have a JOAT with an RB ability AND a town RB" was foolish, and I'm not sure why everybody clamored about that. That being said, this alone is not worthy of a vote; afterall, IS not the only one guilty of it. Parama started the chant, who was joined by IS, and then Fishy, who hammered based on it. Vollkan was the first person to comment on the claim, and he actually tried to dissuade the wagon, which is definitely NOT what I would expect scum to do.

Vollkan is 100% town in my eyes.

IS was suspecting Vollkan yesterday for not awarding scum points to Luchris's RB claim. But once day turns over and Vollkan is proven to be correct, he goes after him anyway. The two main reasons are "His bogus list and the fact that he was trying to stay off any wagons". Right now we should be assuming LyLo, so it's crazy for IS to start voting, especially given these weak reasons. I agree that the list has its flaws, but that's not a strong indication of scum. And his latter reason is weak too. Ythill was on an off-wagon too, and he turned up scum. It's possible that there was at least one scum not on the lynchwagon of Luchris, but I'd be more inclined to believe that spot going to EspeonoBatousai.

Im extremely suspicious of Vollkan and his superscum scoring system. I still think its full of crap. He had Luchris up near the top of his list, but yet he never voted for him. At the time, he couldnt have known that Luchris was actually innocent. Or did he? He felt it more necessary to glam up to Ythill and get in on his good side. I can see why, Ythill was rabid and ferocious when coming after me. I was mildly suspicious of Ythill, and was going to pretty much hand his ass to him today had Luchris turned up scum, but yet he turns up dead. Why? Its clear to see that Vollkan is trying to setup a quicklynch on me today. He knew Luchris was innocent, only the scum know that, hence his hesitation to vote for him. Why else would be try to hide by off-voting on MBF instead?

By killing Ythill, Vollkan and the scum can easily set me up by turning my aggressiveness and vigor against me. What a load of crap. I am so not falling for such tactics. I have caught tons of scum before trying to play this little game with me. It didnt work then, its so not going to work now.

This looks like a script IS wrote during the night, and it's not very good either. There's no reason to buddy up to Ythill if he was just going to kill him during the night anyway. And if IS-town and Ythill-town were going to go after each other with full power today, it would be in the scum's best interest to leave them both alive.

Parama, you may hate the way things are going. But blame Luchris and the scum, not me.

Now, if IS is indeed scum, then Vollkan and Parama are town (IS has been buddying to Parama), and Fishy is likely one of his two scum mates. I speculate this based on his recent posts:
"You shouldn't be voting right now"
"Really, voting right now is a bad idea"
"The number of votes is disconcerting"
"*VOTE:IS*"
"No, wait, voting is bad. *UNVOTE*"
To me, this shows that Fishy knows that proper procedure is to NOT VOTE during LyLo until there is an agreement, but he does it anyway to distance himself from IS.

POST PREVIEW EDIT: I see that IS has posted again. There isn't much new in that post, but I'll address one thing:

You KNEW that Luchris was a townie, so of course you didnt want to change your points crutch around, because that would make you look too obvious. So by keeping your points inflated to MBF, you have an excuse to not be involved in the lynch.

I can see this the other way if Vollkan HAD switched to Luchris.

You're killing innocent townies, then hiding behind your point system!

In summation, Parama and Vollkan are likely town and you will have to do some heavy convincing to make me vote them today. I am willing to string up IS right now.

PPE2:
That is terrible reasoning, Parama.

[Parama]

MBF, I changed my mind.

[mikeburnfire]

What did you change your mind about? That link didn't explain it to me.

[Parama]

That's a typical "I'm going to call a townflip on someone a lot of people think is scum because it'll get me some townpoints" post that scum makes.