Mini 1088: Cookie Thief Mafia (Game Over)

[FakeGod]

You guys are correct in that you guys are allowed to discuss things said in other QTs.

However, I'm going to rule that directly quoting from QTs is on par with directly quoting from role PMs. (so don't do it!)

-mod

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 1.6

drmyshottyizsik (2): andrew94, Elleran
Darox (2): RobCapone, Llamarble
Elleran (1): drmyshottyizsik
PoisonIvy (2): Furcolow, lewarcher82
Furcolow (1): PoisonIvy

Not voting: Darox, Stigmata, Zed, Kublai Khan

With 12 people alive, town needs 7 votes to lynch someone.

Managed to snipe the first post!

Failed.

Success...? -mod

[lewarcher82]

Thanks mod. Then I can proceed.

I have some questions, and I would like poison to answer them. Then furco will answer, too. Finally, Rob will be free to answer, if he wants, but I am not gonna blame him in case he prefers not to do it.

Please answer only "yes", "no", "not saying".
Attention: when I ask if the role description "says" something, I mean explicitely. If an information is, in your opinion, implied, but not explicitely mentioned, the answer must be "no".

1) does the role description say that some of you may be mafia?
2) does the description say that if some of you is mafia, he will appear as a member of the Girls Club, with no indication of the alignment?
3) is the last line of the role description dedicated to the explanation of the winning condition?

eh, asking for positioning of the win con in the role description is too close to direct quotation for my likings. So don't use this. -mod

4) in the role description is any group other than Scouts and Girls Club made reference to?

If you will agree to this little experiment, please follow the order I have indicated: poison, furco(, rob).

[lewarcher82]

MOD: MY VOTE IS ON POISON, NOT ON FURCO!

Thanks for letting me know! -mod

[Darox]

Why do I need to comment on things in order to have thought them? Sometimes, it's better to watch without spouting your immediate conclusions.
A "long" post is nothing but filler. I am going to make my posts as long as I want, and I tend to be concise.

P.S. Is the case against me seriously "You blew off the baseless wagon on you as a joke, this makes you scum"

[Llamarble]

Witholding information makes it more difficult to read you and therefore is anti-town, like all of your other actions.
It enables scum to do exactly what you are doing now,
which is backtracking to pretend your thoughts were different from what they actually were after being caught in a lie.

And not taking the wagon against you seriously is indeed a scumtell.
You have ignored legitimate accusations of anti-town behavior by attempting to laugh them off and calling them baseless.
A town player would explain what the motivations behind their actions actually were and examine the motives of those voting them.
Your motivations were exactly what you have been accused of, so all you can do is try to laugh the case off and hope it goes away itself.

Concision is fine, but you have made many posts and STILL have done nothing remotely resembling scumhunting.
You accuse others of making long "filler" posts, ignoring legitimate content, while still only posting filler yourself.

My reason for not being on the Furcolow/Ivy wagons is that Darox is way scummier than either of them.
I'll comment on that situation next though.

[Darox]

I'll keep that in mind.

In the mean time, I'll let your confirmation bias ruin your 'case' on me.

[Kublai Khan]

mod: I wait for you to rule. Did furco break any rule? I do not see anything in the ruleset about quoting neighbour-talk

Uh, Mod: Did you just edit something out of the game that some players saw and other players didn't? I feel like this puts me at a bit of a disadvantage. I'd rather you have just left it up and publicly admonished Furcolow (or modkilled/force-replaced him).

I have done what I believe is the best for the game. If you have further concerns, please let me know via PM. -mod

I'm starting to see how what I have tried to get going could be misinterpreted as something "scummy", but we could gain much-needed potential mislynches by quicklynching the other "girl's club" with me. I would be hit in the night by the last one, though, if we didn't hit scum today. You see, the girl's club gets a nametrack/roleblock we vote to get 1 person to use. It keeps people in a room, and we get their name (or at least one of us does). Possibly we all do, but from my reading it feels like we pick 1 person, and they get all the information. If we lynch scum in one of them, since I'd bet my fucking life poisonivy is the GodFather, it would keep them from getting this information in case all of us get the information from the one we pick (through the mod), and picking 1 is only just to see if they die (paranoid gun owner, anyone?).

Okay.. So to clarify... The Girl's Club group is a trio of players (furcolow, PoisonIvy, & RobCapone) who are investigation immune. Plus all three have to agree on a target that they then get to investigate (role name) and roleblock them? Plus you possibly jailkeep them as well?

Okay, I agree that there probably is at least one scum amongst you. Hell, all three of you may be scum with that kind of power.

Why do I need to comment on things in order to have thought them? Sometimes, it's better to watch without spouting your immediate conclusions.
A "long" post is nothing but filler. I am going to make my posts as long as I want, and I tend to be concise.

Because when you brilliantly figure out who is who on Day 3 and announce it, nobody is going to believe you because you were scummy for active lurking the whole game.

Duh.

[Darox]

If I had a one line post saying "Kublai is scum, lynch him" I wouldn't expect to get listened to unless I was a confirmed cop, regardless of my play throughout the rest of the game.

If I have a robust explanation to go along with it, and people blind themselves to it because I haven't done much else, I worry about their Mafia skills. Those are the kinds of people who don't think and simply apply a set of arbitrary rules to the game and see who complies.

[Llamarble]

Confirmation bias is what happens when a player makes a case on somebody and they start to look town and the accuser says "Oh, he's trying to look town now, see, he's scum!"
Your play has been scummy since the start of the game.
At no time could any of your actions have been mistaken for being pro-town.
Confirmation bias is a concept wholly irrelevant to the case against you.
Way to misrepresent the case against you in a pathetic effort to laugh it off / make it look weaker without actually challenging it,
falling into exactly the same pattern of scummy behavior I've accused you of.

Preview edit:
Your latest post is just more of the same.
It is anti-town to refuse to participate because it makes it more difficult to read you.
Town players make mistakes too.
A player who waits forever and makes a case against somebody is much more likely to be scum because
scum wish to be careful and avoid coming forward with a case that won't be bought.

[Darox]

No, confirmation bias is when someone gets convinced they are right, and twist their perception reality to further confirm their suspicions.

Please let me know when you're going to stop with the "Scum do this because I said so" and actually come up with some real analysis and reasons.

[Darox]

Perception of* reality.

[Furcolow]

I'm playing this game as if I'm a townie and there is a GF amonst the Girl's Club and a spy within.

Interesting choice of words. I alone suggested a godfather, wtf is this about a spy? o.0 are you talking about in pre game chat because i NEVER said ANYTHING like that. :/ In fact are you even allowed to talk about that?!?

And where did i mention anything about a godfather here before you outted all of us?!

WTF>?!"?"??" You have totally mis repped those quotes!! *

No i wasnt and will not stick my neck on the line, because while there was a possiblitity of you being town which was the impression i'd started with, if you make yourself look like an ass, which has materialised, i wouldnt and dont want to be associated with someone whose a clear cut candidate for a lynch, let alone a neighbour who i dont know is innocent or not.

PS. way to tell mafia MORE INFORMATION. *FACEPALM*

*mod can i actually refute whats been put to me as a case or what???

Furcolow isn't allowed to directly quote from QT, but he can still attack you based on anything that may have been said in the QT. -mod

uh, you posted this well before i outted you
you also said to not out you
you also brought up the godfather BEFORE THE GAME STARTED IN QUICKTIME
you also, there, accepted that either rob or i were going to be dying (SHOCK CONSIDERING YOURE SCUM)

[Furcolow]

@poisonivy why 'pay attention' to me.


so @furclow, your saying you guys have a roleblock?

poison is just saying 'your misreping my posts'
we dont know if those said posts actually exists.
please make a case not based on outside talk

I have already made a case not based on outside talk
Do you not read?

[Furcolow]

Thanks mod. Then I can proceed.

I have some questions, and I would like poison to answer them. Then furco will answer, too. Finally, Rob will be free to answer, if he wants, but I am not gonna blame him in case he prefers not to do it.

Please answer only "yes", "no", "not saying".
Attention: when I ask if the role description "says" something, I mean explicitely. If an information is, in your opinion, implied, but not explicitely mentioned, the answer must be "no".

1) does the role description say that some of you may be mafia?
2) does the description say that if some of you is mafia, he will appear as a member of the Girls Club, with no indication of the alignment?
3) is the last line of the role description dedicated to the explanation of the winning condition?

eh, asking for positioning of the win con in the role description is too close to direct quotation for my likings. So don't use this. -mod

4) in the role description is any group other than Scouts and Girls Club made reference to?

If you will agree to this little experiment, please follow the order I have indicated: poison, furco(, rob).

1) it is implied, to me, based upon the way we flip. I wouldn't have known there were "cookie thieves" vs "cookie scouts" had it not been for this.
2) yes
3) wish i could answer this
4) thieves, yes. girl club is what we flip if investigated, not scouts, and scouts (for me) is what i would flip if i died. fairly certain poisonivy would flip as the godfather.

[Furcolow]

No, confirmation bias is when someone gets convinced they are right, and twist their perception reality to further confirm their suspicions.

Please let me know when you're going to stop with the "Scum do this because I said so" and actually come up with some real analysis and reasons.

I agree that llamarble has been guilty of information instead of analysis. "scum do this, scum do that", but he is highlighting no examples. I was suspicious of rob, but the more I read PoisonIvy's ignorance, the more I realize why my FoS has shifted to her and llamarble.

[Stigmata]

I'm hereby requesting replacement because the mod has become far more involved in the thread than I feel comfortable with.

Which is too bad, I was looking forward to a game with some good, old-fashioned scumhunting. I'm disappointed by how much that opportunity has been tainted.

Enjoy yourselves.

well, that's too bad. -mod

[Llamarble]

@Furcolow: What?!
Every one of my posts against Darox points out a specific incidence (usually Darox's most recent post) of him doing something I have referred to as scummy.
I have also explained each time why I felt the particular behavior Darox was guilty of makes more sense if he is playing toward a scum objective.
How is that information over analysis?

[Darox]

No, you've been saying "X is something scum does. Darox is scum" without explaining how I am doing X or why X is scummy.

[drmyshottyizsik]

unvote vote stig

[RobCapone]

oh boy, sorry about the unexpected absence, I will try and catch up soon

[RobCapone]

ok skimming through real quick to see what missed but before I do

unvote

so many pages I don't even remember if I am even voting anyone

[RobCapone]

ok giving my catchup post as I see them

page 4 impressions

1. WOW furc (facepalm) so much for your suggestion of all of us working together
2. I agreed with darox that the wagon on him was probably a joke up until he self voted. self voting is usually not something town should do

page 5

yeah looks like on page 4, furc opens mouth and enters foot, I take it this is normal for him?
I basically agree with ivy, except for the fact she mentions godfather. way to early to make any assumptions yet, it's day 1
shotty owes me $5 also
who is this andrew kid, he makes no sense
kubla on the other hand, makes lots of sense. good point about the neighbors, day 1 is too early to assume anything about allignments
shotty, please if you want to eat a cookie, go ahead. I am eating oreo's right now

page 6

well first, furclow, no AtE is not strictly a scum tell, town uses AtE also. I'd suggest you browse the mafia discussion forum because I believe there is a thread about scum tells, also a thread about how to improve your gameplay, and from what I can tell based on this game alone and the reputation people have of you, that thread you need to live there for a few months.

Since I missed what was quoted from the QT and not sure what all I can say, furc was the one who suggested we should work together and ivy and I were talking before game started, furc happened to not want to share any information or really discuss options. he was just concered with making sure allignments were not known

page 7

lewarcher, here are my answers

1. no
2. yes
3. not allowed to say
4. scouts, girls club, and theifs are all mentioned

stig - I think mod intervention involved with furc's quoting info from a QT is deserved, sorry you don't agree. hope we replace you soon

llamarble and darox battling back and forth, seems like 2 townies going back and forth but both have valid points.

sorry, I will try and do a deeper read through tomorrow but for now I really think furclow is a moron and I really can't see any pro-town motivation to come out with the girls club on day 1 and unless he received a totally different role pm about the girl's club he has TOTALLY mislead you guys about mafia being in the girls club.

I am not saying it isn't possible but I just can't see how that would be fair to town, but I never heard of neighbors before and I thought this was a mason type group, and call me naive if you want but i am going to stick with that believe that we are all town.

[RobCapone]

mod, heads up my activity on the weekends drop dramatically, I will try and check in to keep the flow of the game moving but if you don't see me much it is because of that

Noted. -mod

[andrew94]

shotty, are you voting stig because he wanted to get replaced? ?????????

disclaimer: i vig all who call me 'kid'