Mini 1088: Cookie Thief Mafia (Game Over)

[Elleran]

I like Furcolow's case against Poison.

Poison seems to be scummunicating with Andrew and Llamarble. Although there is no clear sign that Andrew and Llamarble are scummunicating back, Poison really seems to be trying to push the other two to act more.

UNVOTE

Shotty isn't really bright on my radar right now. I feel more interesting vibes from this Poison/Andrew/Llamarble.

Also, I want to see more from Zed. He hasn't been addressed to and he hasn't addressed anyone else (except me). I can't feel any clear relationship involving Zed.

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 1.7

drmyshottyizsik (1): andrew94
Darox (1): Llamarble
PoisonIvy (2): Furcolow, lewarcher82
Furcolow (1): PoisonIvy
Stigmata (1): drmyshottyizsik

Not voting: Darox, Stigmata, Zed, Kublai Khan, RobCapone, Elleran

With 12 people alive, town needs 7 votes to lynch someone.

Managed to snipe the first post!

Failed.

Success...?

Close..... -mod

[Furcolow]

rob capone blatant misrepresentation of me from the quicktime
sorry i don't trust neighbors
i was seeing how you all would react
you reacted like a Village Idiot (which you are, rob), and PoisonIvy acted like scum (which she is, rob)

[andrew94]

you realise if she is scum ,she could be faking communications right?

[PoisonIvy]

1) does the role description say that some of you may be mafia? Yes.
2) does the description say that if some of you is mafia, he will appear as a member of the Girls Club, with no indication of the alignment? Yes.
3) is the last line of the role description dedicated to the explanation of the winning condition? N/A.
4) in the role description is any group other than Scouts and Girls Club made reference to? Yes.

Im going to school. Will read thoroughly when i get back.

[Furcolow]

there's no IF. she IS scum.

[lewarcher82]

looks like my little experiment failed. I was trying to establish whether the three neighbours had identical messages or not. However, furco screwed up again. There was a reason why I asked my questions to be answered in a precise order. The first to answer should have been Ivy, so that she could not possibly try to copy/interpret the answers given by the others. Furco answered first, and so much for my gambit.
Therefore, the experiment revealed one thing only: Rob and Poison gave answers that are consistent with Furco's, and at least I can see the situation a little more clearly. Furco is very likely a town-aligned neighbour, although he is playing a very poor game.

What's wrong with you? I asked you to wait for PoisonIvy to answer, and I asked you to answer just yes/no. Was that so difficult to understand?

One could argue that if mod prevented them to answer my third question, it may be because that question would have proved that the messages were in fact different from each other, but I am not gonna play the game of wine-glasses with the mod, therefore I will ignore this possible information.

WIFOMlicious! -mod

I will repeat this once again for the benefit of Llamarble and Darox. We are not ignoring the neighborhood issue today. We need to deal with it; if we wait, it will become a terrible burden in the next days.

On the case on Darox. Darox is doing something very stupid here. Because his behaviour is making everyone notice him. And this is not good in any possible case (unless he is a jester, of course). The opposite team, town or scum that it be, is surely getting suspicious.
However, Darox is just an active lurker. Nothing more than this. Not enough for a lynch-case on day 1, and not enough to justify the fact that Llamarble seems to pay attention to Darox only.

[Darox]

I wonder if people ever think.

At all, but this time specifically if they think about what "Active lurking" constitutes.

[lewarcher82]

Also, since I did not say it before, I say it now: a 3-player investigative town team is impossible to believe. I definitely agree with the semi-analphabet that one of the neighbours is likely scum.

Consider this in a long-time perspective. It will mean town will automatically have at least 3 investigative reports before scum kills all the investigators. And if neighbours did not claim, every mafia-kill on nillas/other roles would grant town a further investigation. This would be unbalanced as hell.

We are lynching one of the neighbours. So quit the Darox shit and comment on my posts.

If Llama keeps ignoring this situation, he will get like 1000 scumpoints in my personal list of FoS's.

[Llamarble]

No, you've been saying "X is something scum does. Darox is scum" without explaining how I am doing X or why X is scummy.

I guess I have to derive everything from first principles...

Scum want to avoid being read because if they're accurately read they'll get lynched.
Town want to be read accurately because if we're read accurately we won't be lynched.
Posting content enables other players to read you.
Therefore town are happy to post content whereas scum do so reluctantly.
Darox seems reluctant to post content (as evidenced by the fact that he has posted NONE so far, even when it has been demanded).
Therefore Darox is more likely to be scum.


And then there was this:
"I was just making fun of the wagon on myself. Also making fun of random votes and the people who wanted me to make one.
Also to see what people would do in reaction."

If Darox wanted to "see what people would do in reaction," he would have commented on some of the reactions he observed.
he has not, so I believe this is a lie made up to make his action seem more pro town.
Even the phasing sounds like the third reason was made up and tacked on.
Scum are liars.
Therefore Darox is more likely to be scum.

Your defense to that accusation is that you have thought about the reactions but have not commented.
I don't believe you, and this defense is itself scummy.
Town want to get reads / ideas out so other townies can think about them and so that we ourselves may be read better.
Scum withhold reads and information like this to avoid being read, give the town less information to analyze,
and finally so that later on they can pretend their reads were always whatever looks convenient from an up-to-date perspective.
Darox admits he is withholding information.
Therefore Darox is more likely to be scum.

As I said before, I'm getting to the neighbors situation.
The GC power does make it less likely they're all town since having a town aligned player wielding a power like that with 2 backups is pretty powerful.
Analysis to come in my next post.

[Darox]

#1: Define Content for me please. Because I'm pretty sure you are wrong.


#2: Why would I comment on some of the reactions I observed?
That would change the nature of the system. You can't just throw out comments and not expect them to change the way people act. If I want to do that, I'll do it. Otherwise, I'll keep the errant thoughts to myself and bring them up when they seem important.

Also, I'm not withholding information. At least, not how you are implying. I am withholding information by not telling you my role or any other hidden mod details. Just as you are doing the same. My wayward thoughts about how people reacted to the various events of the game are not information. They are speculation at best. Placing importance on them means you're not thinking for yourself. You should be more concerned with my displayed actions than my inscrutable thoughts.


In unrelated news, the Neighbourhood cops group is weakened by the fact there is three of them, even if all three are town.
If you can't see how, I worry for you. How do you keep breathing?

[lewarcher82]

The weakness implied by mutual suspicion within the neighborhood is nothing compared to the immense pro-town power they have if they are all town.
Stop playing the genius, Darox, because you are really just saying very elementary stuff.

That your attitude corresponded to a soft-claim was evident. That furco belonged to a neighborhood was evident. That the mutual suspicion is a weakening element is also evident. I do not know why you refuse to respect the other players, but you better respect me, because I am pretty good at breathing, I am not easy convinced and I may become an issue for you if you are town. Seriously.

At the moment, my policy towards you is considering you a jester. And I passionately suggest that the cops - or whatever they are - try to find out stuff about you tonight.

[Darox]

That my attitude corresponded to a soft claim was evident?
Oh boy you are a barrel of laughs aren't you.
Maybe you should try to play the genius, it might stop you saying stupid shit like that. Try to find a soft claim please. Let me know when you find it. I'll be waiting.

Maybe when you do something respect-worthy I will have some respect for you. I don't really give a damn about your "buck up sonny" hardline attitude, and it's not going to make me respect you or change my attitude.

P.S. It's not mutual suspicion that is the weakening element. That helps, but it's the outside suspicion that really does it.

[lewarcher82]

Your call. You can insult people as much as you want, I will keep being polite.

Moreover you cannot deny that at the moment village is divided in:
1) people who think you are not helping;
2) people who think you are scummy.

Try to find a soft claim please. Let me know when you find it. I'll be waiting.

I am withholding information by not telling you my role or any other hidden mod details.

I notice this because I analysed your behaviour according to your gentle suggestion:

You should be more concerned with my displayed actions than my inscrutable thoughts

Say what you like, if I were mafia and you were town I would steal your cookie n1.

Finally:

Please let me know when you're going to stop with the "Scum do this because I said so" and actually come up with some real analysis and reasons.

By all means, let us know when you decide to do the same.

[Llamarble]

1.
Content:
Most important: Discussion of your beliefs about the alignments of other players and explanations for said beliefs.
Discussion of who we should lynch also qualifies.
Discussion of mafia theory not specific to this game does not, though it can be useful supplemental material.

2.
I don't want to hear your thoughts so I can sheep you, I want to hear them so I can read you.
If they happen to be well formed and give me ideas, so much the better.
This is much more important than avoiding perturbing other players so you can see if they keep up whatever behavior you think you see,
particularly since players' reactions to being called out for scummy actions tend to be telling.
The type of information I referred to you withholding is the type mentioned above;
That's the important information because we use it to actually figure out who the scum are.


All town Girls Club is not unbelievable to me.
If there are 2 of them left, and they each believe the other is likely scum, how will they vote for somebody to use their night action?
Presumably they just won't night-act, so that makes them less powerful.
Also if only one of them receives the night action information,
it makes coordinating harder for them, particularly if the scum NK the active one.

An awkward bit is that 1 town GC dying both makes it more likely they're all town but also makes it more likely each of the other two is individually scum.

I think the 1 scum 2 town GC setup seems a lot less swingy, since if we assume there's scum in a 3 town GC setup and start lynching them we basically lose for sure (since after one of them flips town the scumodds for the others climbs way above the town average, and we end up lynching the others). Maybe them not instaclaiming is supposed to prevent that?

I'm feeling like we should just lynch on the basis of who is scummiest, which is Darox so far.

Post on scumminess of GCs tomorrow.

[lewarcher82]

apologies... some shit happening, so

V/LA til Monday, 6th

... I will try to have a quick look, but cannot guarantee...

V/LA noted. -mod

[Kublai Khan]

@Darox: The "I'm going to sit back and observe other people's behavior and contribute nothing of my own" strategy nonsense is something that used to be drummed out of people in newbie games. Is this not the case anymore? At worst, you're coasting scum, and at best you're a townie that's distracting everyone. I'm leaning towards the latter, but it's such a fine fucking line right now.

Re: neighbors...

I'm divided. But I'm starting to agree with the theory that at least one of them has to be scum. The "they get to investigate, but scum also learns the result" mechanic makes sense from a balancing standpoint.

And who is this Zed person on the playerlist? Why don't they post more? Preferrably with some thought/analysis that wasn't cribbed off of other people's posts.

[RobCapone]

This whole neighbors thing has really got us in a quandary

We can't try and out guess the mod, who knows what he has done

If we assume there is one mafia and lynch someone and are wrong about them than immediately the 2 remaining members won't trust each other and have esentially made girls club worthless

If we have 1 scum we are going to lose 2 town in the process

So many ways mafia could fuck with town also if they are in gc, I think mafia in gc tips this game to favor mafia

If we assume 1 scum and we are wrong, we lose 3 town and mafia has the edge yet again

If anything outing girls club has helped the cop (assuming there is one) cause it has eliminated 3 people to investigate making his odds to catch scum better for us.

[Zed]

Just logged in to do a quick skim and I see people are asking for me to post more. This week has been very busy for me and it should slow up next week, so I'll be able to post more. I'll definitley have time tomorrow, so expect something frm me then.

I'm also a girl, so please stop referring to me as a he.

[Furcolow]

The weakness implied by mutual suspicion within the neighborhood is nothing compared to the immense pro-town power they have if they are all town.
Stop playing the genius, Darox, because you are really just saying very elementary stuff.

That your attitude corresponded to a soft-claim was evident. That furco belonged to a neighborhood was evident. That the mutual suspicion is a weakening element is also evident. I do not know why you refuse to respect the other players, but you better respect me, because I am pretty good at breathing, I am not easy convinced and I may become an issue for you if you are town. Seriously.

At the moment, my policy towards you is considering you a jester. And I passionately suggest that the cops - or whatever they are - try to find out stuff about you tonight.

really liked the bolded paragraph

[Furcolow]

Llamarble's #189 feels like a bunch of QQ to me crying about the setup and early claim, and how his scumbuddy Poison Ivy is about to get lynched

[Furcolow]

This whole neighbors thing has really got us in a quandary

We can't try and out guess the mod, who knows what he has done

If we assume there is one mafia and lynch someone and are wrong about them than immediately the 2 remaining members won't trust each other and have esentially made girls club worthless

If we have 1 scum we are going to lose 2 town in the process

So many ways mafia could fuck with town also if they are in gc, I think mafia in gc tips this game to favor mafia

If we assume 1 scum and we are wrong, we lose 3 town and mafia has the edge yet again

If anything outing girls club has helped the cop (assuming there is one) cause it has eliminated 3 people to investigate making his odds to catch scum better for us.

i have the feeling it is 1 scum as well, and i'm of the mind that it is poison ivy
her bringing up the godfather in both the quicktime and this thread before i had even conceived/fathomed that idea myself is sketchy. She has also been guilty of OMGUS and AtE.

[PoisonIvy]

i do not KNOW their alignment

, but

it is IMPLIED

one of them is scum

furthermore, we can't be investigated

like i've said

i don't believe it was a good idea to reveal this given the reactions from you guys

i thought you all would take me in as a hero tbh

Why would towns opinion matter to you? ie. Who wants INSTA town cred? Mafia. The legitamately smart thing to do was to wait and see throughout the course of the day if either me or rob was scummy. Instead you came in with guns blazing. This quote gives me the bite frost.

Andrew asks what alignment are we exactly and Furcolow responds with

Im just like a protoss probe sent off into another base early in the game

Weirdest answer ever. Paragraphing, we have our own identities. Essentially i am a cookie scouts but we are also members of the girls club, i cannot speak for rob or furocolow. But upon investigation, we are shown as girl scouts. Neither cookie scouts or cookie theives.

(regardingmy distaste for VI's) Town would say something more ambiguous such as what darox has been saying.

because solid viewpoints are a serious danger to town (sarcasm)

My thoughts with VI's is damage limitation. Your in lylo with an idiot who gets excuse after excuse, and someone reasonably sane. You may as well fip a coin.

Next, PoisonIvy addresses my claim, the most important part of the game, lastly.
Save the best for last, I suppose.

However my belief, now, is that furclow could be a godfather who returns a result of "Girls Club" when investigated. Because we do not return Club Scouts or Cookie Thieves.

PoisonIvy is SURE that I'm a godfather.
When did i even MENTION the gf? I am a blue. I am going to be either forming a town alliance, or dying to get poisonivy lynched

Could be. Is not definate. And GIRL SCOUT MEMBERS ARE NOT BLUE THEY'RE PINK!!!! What do you mean you are blue?

SCUMMY NOMINATED POST PLZ.

he's obsessed with his own gratification.

He argues that outting us 5pages in was okay. He had no reading whatsoever!! The least he could have done was let the day wear on before shouting his lip off.

we could gain much-needed potential mislynches by quicklynching the other "girl's club" with me.

So BOTH me and rob are going down now. Hm! Furcolow you rascal! You sound like you have this all planned out!

Why would I do this as scum? I would want 3 girls club left to hide in

Town. Cred. If you are town which is what i was coming in to the game thinking, you have essentially JUST OUTTED US TO THE MAFIA AND WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE PICKED OFF ONE BY ONE ANYWAY!!!!
Re: what i said in quicktopic. I viewed the mafia to have an unfair disadvantage if one of them was in our girl scouts. They'd site us for our power and try to veer us away from them. The added difficulty with our club is that we do not know each others alignments and if days had proceeded we would eventually be arguing over investigations and paranoia could present in game problems. I may not have stated it as clearly as that but it seemed logical that with this th mafia would too have some powers in their arsenal. But well done for "Teamwork" (sarcasm) Furocolow. Like you were suggesting (not sarcasm)

Lewarcher..... :r why am i the blonde poison? Ps. im just a lil outspoken. And sincerely, wrong wagon but oKay. Secondly you speak of getting this neighbourhood stuff "dealt" with today. Is this automatically reaching a neighbour lynch?

I was very sad, when, at first I thought I was scum. THEN I READ MY WIN CONDITION/ROLE/HIDDEN MESSAGE in my personal pm

hidden message? and why would you initially think you were scum? :S

re: not reading. college + job does not always afford me suffiecent time to analyse much. So i skim. But i do go back over and try to clear up.
And im still all for the VI lynch but things are proving a bit more substantal so i may yet shift my vote.

Andrew im getting a slight scum smell from you. Tis only slight but im only watching.
You continue to rolefish Furcolow. Whose ego is so big i cant imagine if he misses that post.

The ONLY ONLY time i mentioned a godfather is when in our QT i said we should be careful with our investigation if anyone was screaming "IM MAFIA" too loudly. I seen an attempt of it in Flash Mafia and was wary. This was when i believed that our investigation was guilty/innocent. Again. one of my spectacular displays of reading. (sarcasm)

More of furocolow's rants. Im quickly losing interest.

Stigmata's back out is diobolical. But i dont necessarily want to vote him for it.

I like Rob's analysis. But thats probably because i feel now as if i have a chance at being heard and i had an auld giggle at it too. Very witty. And i agree with the whole Darox vs. llamarble.

Elleran totally disregards Rob's input.
@Elleran. Lemme get this straight. You are doubtful of Llamarble because i told him to hurry up and vote. And you are suspect of andrew because i am suspect of andrew? Right?

Furcolow declares blatant mis rep on rob's part, so that's 2people against 1. Well call me stupid but 2 people scum in a neighbour hood with an name investigation result on say "Copper Clive" or "doctor david" +1kill, seems pretty effed up. The chances of it are miniscule!

rob capone blatant misrepresentation of me from the quicktime
sorry i don't trust neighbors
i was seeing how you all would react
you reacted like a Village Idiot (which you are, rob), and PoisonIvy acted like scum (which she is, rob)

Seeing how he would react to what? Your lies?!

Sorry lewarcher but i dont control his actions. However i can honestly say whether you want to believe me or not, i didnt look a his answers. Half the time now i find myself immediately skimming by his jargon.

lol. mod note.

Again my question. How do we resolve the neighbourhood issue. Im still going to be pissed at him for outting us. And he will consistently attemt to lynch me. I mean, its gonna be hopeless for town if the two of us are left at lylo!!

Re: Darox. He's been here since o8. Im sure he's picked up a few things during his 2years here. Continuously Darox?

I think for now, he's biding his time and oddly im okay with that.

Llamarble. Darox is a waste of a vote.

[andrew94]

v/la for 2 days

Noted. -Mod

[Elleran]

@Elleran. Lemme get this straight. You are doubtful of Llamarble because i told him to hurry up and vote. And you are suspect of andrew because i am suspect of andrew? Right?

No, you must have misread my post. I never said anything about Andrew's suspect or being doubtful of Llama. In my last post, I commented that you were pressing both Llama and Andrew into action.

===========================================================================================================================

Here's my case and reason. I find the Poison-Llama relationship more juicy, so I'll focus on that:

If you iso-Llama, you'll notice that he has mentioned your name twice in all of his posts combined (and one of them isn't even addressed to you). Here's the post that you are mentioned in: Post 102. He doesn't mention you again afterwards.

When I iso-ed you, I noticed that you started off by defending Llamarble. As the game went on, you began to be attacked. Then you made the comment:

Llamarble! Get your ass in gear and stop wasting your vote or are you delibrately avoiding the recent outbursts?

Which can be

possibly

interpreted as a scummunication from you to your accomplice. In your latest post, you directly supported lynching Llamarble compared to Darox:

Llamarble. Darox is a waste of a vote.

Looking at this, I observed that the scummunication was mostly one-sided, with most of the comments made by you and directed at Llamarble. I believe that either of the two following is happening:

1. Llama and you are partners (in addition to a third person) and to get the pressure off of yourself, you're bussing Llama. This way, you'll get town-cred if the bussing is successfully done.

2. Llama is town and you are scum. In this scenario, you're under pressure and need someone else to take it away from you. By pretending to have scummunicated to Llama, you make the town believe that Llama is your accomplice. This way, getting Llama lynched will be easier and will result in a townie killed and a scum alive for another day.

Seeing the lack of posts directed at you, Poison, from Llama, I believe that this scum relationship is one sided. Therefore, I believe that the latter scenario is the more probable.

VOTE: PoisonIvy