Oldy Mafia (Game Over, who won?)

[Ectomancer]

[I was saying that Ecto is clearly very scummy in a behavioral sense, but there's a chance he's stubborn town, and I wanted to try to get some kind of response from him before voting.
I don't at all understand how you can look at one post where I said "Ecto is likely to be scum, but could still be town" and another post where I said "Ecto is scummy", and see a contradiction there, unless you don't understand how I'm using the word "scummy" here.

This is seriously the biggest load of crock. Wishwashwishywashydoubledoublespeak??

For the record, I've not done a damn thing that is scummy. If you think I have, you have no clue what "behaving scummy" even means

[Yosarian2]

Scum tactics abound. Demand responses from your target and then ignore them.

What response have I ignored?

Use the "flood them with attacks" method that the only thing that player can do is answer them or get called for "ignoring questions".

Bull. I haven't "flooded you with attacks". You've been lurking for days.

Yos did this by demanding explanations for actions, and then attacking me for giving the theories that explain my actions.

Again, this is just patently untrue. I didn't "demand explanations for actions" from you at all before you started spouting all that theory. I didn't even attack you at all until you had already done that. And, like I've said probably half a dozen times, I wasn't attacking you "for giving theories"; I was attacking you for giving theories and not giving content, but that's a completly different thing.

WTF? Oh yes, best of all if you are attacking someone, just dismiss their arguments against your bullshit strategies by calling it WIFOM. Wurks grate.

What "argument" are you talking about that I dismissed with WIFOM?

Nothing you're saying even sounds like you're reading the same game I'm playing, Ecto.

[Yosarian2]

For the record, I've not done a damn thing that is scummy. If you think I have, you have no clue what "behaving scummy" even means

I've explained what parts of your behavior I've found scummy many times, ecto, and you've consistently ignored everything I said. I'll be glad to explain again if you want.

[Patrick]

Votecount

chamber (1) -- Yosarian2
Ectomancer (6) -- stark, MrBuddyLee, Glork, Cogito Ergo Sum, Mert, Fritzler
Ythill (4) -- HackerHuck, chamber, DrippingGoofball, CrashTextDummie
ChannelDelibird (1) -- Flameaxe
inHimshallibe (3) -- Lord Gurgi, Shanba, ChannelDelibird
Yosarian2 (3) -- Ythill, inHimshallibe, Ectomancer

Not voting: None
18 alive, 10 to lynch

[Yosarian2]

Eh, screw it.

Unvote

Vote:Ectomancer

Ecto's obviously never going to respond to the case against him, and nothing in any of his posts makes any sense at all or seems to have any connection to the rest of the game. And I have a strong suspicion he's just going to vanish and lurk for another 4 days now. I hope he proves me wrong, but until he starts posting and making some bloody sense, he can have by vote.

[DrippingGoofball]

Bah. Consistency is a scum tell.

^^^ This much is true.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Finally.

@Ythill, I don't think it's all that significant really. More likely to be an amusing coincidence than a long-term trend in my opinion. (Although it could, of course, mean that I'm an awesome bandwagonner.)

[DrippingGoofball]

L-2, claim time. Hurry up, read my sig.

VOTE: Ectomancer

[stark]

My current musings because I've been rather tight lipped with reads so far:

Mafia 1:
11) Ythill
???
15) stark

Mafia 2:
1) Yosarian2
16) inHimshallibe
10) ChannelDelibird (replaces Untrod Tripod)

Town(least to most townish)
7) Glork
4) Shanba
9) Lord Gurgi
2) Mert
18) MrBuddyLee
14) Ectomancer
3) DrippingGoofball (replacing IH)
5) Flameaxe
6) CrashTextDummie
12) Fritzler
13) HackerHuck
8) Cogito Ergo Sum



Feel free to laugh at the terrible inaccuracy once the game is over.

Your list is hilarious. I would LOVE to see some justification as to why I'm scumpartners with Ythill. I would be equally thrilled to see how you can justify a Yos-InHim-CDB scumteam. I wait with baited breath.

@DGB

TOWN:

chamber > reaction in #226 is good. scummy for asking CES permission to vote. Actually the more I read, the more I love chamber.

With this in mind, what do you make of chamber's most recent contribution (his scumlist)?
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Seems like Ecto isn't posting as much any more, and it's proponents seem not to be hawking any more. Why?

Trying to engage Ectomancer has produced nothing but mind-bogglingly delusional responses. I can't speak for others, but personally, I can't continue trying to get him to actually play this game. You're welcome to give it a try, but I'm content with simply removing him from this game.

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Ythill is growing shadier with every post he makes. If I didn't have it truly set in my heart to have Ecto lynched today, I would love to see a Ythill wagon.

@Yos:

Let me get this straight... You are voting chamber while excessively "questioning" Ecto because you're pretty sure that chamber is scum but MotR on Ecto. You are posting a lot of words against Ecto because he's not providing enough content and you're trying to get a read. You're not posting very many words against chamber because he's not providing enough content. And you were considering his opinion carefully because you're trying to get a read. Right?

Too much double-talk. Liking my vote more and more.

Also, don't accuse me of conspiracies I'm not spinning.

Then only reason I called chamber a likley buddy of yours is that you're both scummy individually.

Ythill, do you understand that there is an enormous difference between seeing two players as scummy, and perceiving them as scum-partners?

[Fritzler]

EBWOP: Wrong on, like, every level, but probably protown.

I feel the same way. He seems a nice enough guy, but I mean, he actually likes DGB? I mean, I would vig him on principle (after DGB).

Also, chamber's list is hilarious.

[chamber]

I said you guys could laugh

after

the game .

Hey Ecto, I think you are town, but hurry up and claim so that we can move on to scum.

[Ythill]

@Yos:

I'm not going to go round and round about this with you any more. I've explained why I think you're scum and you haven't convinced me otherwise. 'Nuff said. If I'm wrong about you, demonstrate it with your play.

Ythill, do you understand that there is an enormous difference between seeing two players as scummy, and perceiving them as scum-partners?

Not for me on D1 there isn't. Thanks for the unsubstantiated attack though. I'll file "shady" right there next to "weird."

...he actually likes DGB?

An accusation I will not deny. DGB is awesomesauce in-game and out.

[DrippingGoofball]

With this in mind, what do you make of chamber's most recent contribution (his scumlist)?

I approve of it, since he's generously bus'ing UT/CDB.

[DrippingGoofball]

EBWOP: Wrong on, like, every level, but probably protown.

I feel the same way. He seems a nice enough guy, but I mean, he actually likes DGB? I mean, I would vig him on principle (after DGB).

Also, chamber's list is hilarious.

Once again, you have neglected to vote me.

I think it's pretty clear by now that Fritzler is scum.

[MrBuddyLee]

Mert, Glork, CES, Yos, DGB, why specifically are you voting Ecto?

I just reviewed people's stated reasons for being on the wagon and they're terrible or mealymouthed or nonexistent.

Stark, is the guy scum or are we just removing him from the game for intransigence? Or likely both?

Fritz and CES, is the guy scum?

I'm back east for 48 hrs and just taught a 68 year old to play gran turismo 5. I'd like to see everyone's lists of the four scum, and I'll try to post mine this weekend.

Tempted to unvote. Yos, is ecto scum? Your heart doesn't sound like it believes it in your last post where you voted him.

[DrippingGoofball]

I have no time.

This reply from Ectomancer when the claim bell tolls makes me happy about my vote.

[DrippingGoofball]

Mert, Glork, CES, Yos, DGB, why specifically are you voting Ecto?

I just reviewed people's stated reasons for being on the wagon and they're terrible or mealymouthed or nonexistent.

But why would you ask this question unless you were scum knowing Ecto is town?

[DrippingGoofball]

If Ecto flips town, MBL is scum. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[MrBuddyLee]

REALLY SKETCHY:

Ectomancer > post #207 sounds like a strategic lurking warning. But then I liked #247. But then I liked MBL's case in #256. And yet #298 is full of excuses. Not seeing a whole lot of scumhunting.

This is the entire case you've posted on Ecto. It sounds more like you believe he's crappy town, or want to blame me if/when he comes up town. What's your exact stance on Ecto?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Mert, Glork, CES, Yos, DGB, why specifically are you voting Ecto?

The same reasons why I originally switched my vote to him, just on a broader scale. Yos2 and Ecto's recent crossvoting looks like distancing, too.

Fritz and CES, is the guy scum?

Yes.

[DrippingGoofball]

It sounds more like you believe he's crappy town

No.

..or want to blame me if/when he comes up town.

Is he coming up town, MBL?

[Lord Gurgi]

Absolutely incorrect re: Flameaxe, I don't know how you could come to this conclusion. I will get to why after work.

This current stuff about voting blocs is absurd.

Are you going to seriously attribute scumminess to this? I made no indication that I wanted to actually form this bloc, it was a way of saying, hey I've found 3 other town players that I like where they're headed this game and we're also... Super... Awesome. And besides, what's wrong with this? If you've got 4 town players working together to scumhunt and vote, that is pretty damn powerful. Why attack this, unless you're afraid of who we might try and attack?

Your criticism of MBL is baseless, the game of mafia is about analysing the quality of other people's reads,

and it just annoys me that you want to limit content because it's day one in such an unapologetic fashion.

You are REALLY stretching in trying to link those two clauses together. My point re: MBL is that, if you think Ecto is scum (and therefore NOT going to give quality reads) why does he want him to try and provide these reads? And if he's gotta go REGARDLESS (which backs up my previous question) of whether or not he is giving quality reads, you'll never getting around to truly judging how quality they are! WE HAVE NO CONFIRMED PLAYER-BASE INFORMATION YET AND THEREFORE READS ARE NOT WHAT ARE IMPORTANT, BUT ARGUMENTS.

Reads are based off arguments are they not? I'm not convinced by you first denying that you do want to form a voting bloc and then defending forming a voting bloc. I don't know why you think that because scum give false reads there's no point in getting them. It's just silly, you want them to give reads so you can pin them down later. Besides, no one is ever 100% sure of their scumpicks, unless they're quite stupid, so it helps to get more information from a read.

And, then, how the HELL does that relate to limiting content because it's Day 1? (Not that I think I'm trying to do that.) That's

such

a big stretch. Is it because I've taken a shot at MBL, one of the more prolific posters in this game? It doesn't make ANY sense, really.

You'll take large posts, pick at small details and act as if the entire case dissolves as a result. I don't think you've contributed anything serious to the discussion, it's mostly been wagonning and dismissal.

Are you talking about this game, or my play in general?

It's obvious to me that you care much more about making my suspicion of you appear baseless than you do on trying to convince me that I'm wrong.

YOU SIR, HAVE PUT WORDS IN MY POSTS THAT WERE NEVER THERE. I CALLED YOU OUT ON BULLSHITTING BECAUSE I THOUGHT I HAD SUFFICIENTLY ANSWERED YOUR POINTS RE: DIFFUSION OF CTD'S WAGON (APPARENTLY NOT, AND ROUND AND ROUND THE MULBERRY BUSH WE GO) AND HERE YOU WERE SAYING, "OH INHIM HE'S STILL SCUM HERPDERP" AND THEN I EVEN ASKED YOU TO ARTICULATE YOUR REASONS TO ME. NOW WHY WOULD I DO THAT IF NOT TO RESPOND TO THEM.

There's a difference between saying please outline your reasons for thinking I'm scum and saying you don't have anything, just try to come up with some reasons. Raging at me isn't going to help, this is what I read from your posts. There's more to what you say than the surface level, and I will never stop ignoring the implied. I think it's funny that you're angry, because you continue to treat my case like the very notion is ridiculous. Anyway, I'm talking about this game, regarding your picking against large posts.

Infuriating, really.

Helpful.

A lot of people will probably think I'm being hypocritical here, but I think there's a gulf of difference between the short posts I make and the short posts you make. Whereas I agree with something that is said usually, or else it's expressing a brief read based on what's happened recently, you just criticise so many people in a way that assumes they're scum.

What good to scumhunting does it do to compare the two of us? THERE'S NO TOWN REASON.

Your posts regarding BBM before you voted for him talked about a suspicion that you didn't articulate. You act like there's some storied opposition of BBM in your posts and it just doesn't appear. There's a post saying that you still don't buy his defense, when you never criticised it before, and another where you just correct him. The vote is a load and there's no support for it in your history, I think it's manufactured to find a new wagon and say you've defused some other wagon for evidence.

Again, this just ISN'T what happened.

Seriously, though, work. I'll be back.

Yes there is. I'm criticising something you did while explaining why it's different than what I've done so you can't just turn it around on me when it's not the same. Look, I can read your posts till the end of time, but there's only so many you made. That is what happened, I actually went through your posts again to see if there might be something else. There wasn't.



I feel like there are more people that have made that point about the Ecto wagon than just MBL. I don't think I've actually said what he said, but certainly I've been thinking the same. DGB, why is there a problem with saying a wagon won't end well if that's what one believes? It seems like you're just trying to transfer the Ecto wagon to MBL.

[DrippingGoofball]

And you're voting InHim? Along with Shanba and UT/CDB? That's, like, the scummiest wagon ever.

[Lord Gurgi]

Good deflection.

[Ythill]

Yup. Gurgi is still town. And there's something hollow about inHim's rage. Kinda like he saw Ecto's reaction gain him points and so he's trying to seem upset. That's a little paranoid of me though. I'm going to keep inHim @ prob-town for now, but I am paying attention.

I see the reasons behind DGB's jab @ MBL but I think she's wrong. To rephrase: his recent behavior does make sense coming from scum if Ecto is town, but it also makes sense coming from town and, looking at MBL in toto, he's obv-town. More important, perhaps, is the fact that DGB is making an attack based on Ecto being town while still voting him and clamoring for a claim.