Oldy Mafia (Game Over, who won?)

[Patrick]

Votecount

Ectomancer (4) -- stark, Cogito Ergo Sum, Mert, Yosarian2
Ythill (2) -- HackerHuck, CrashTextDummie
inHimshallibe (5) -- Lord Gurgi, Shanba, ChannelDelibird, chamber, Ythill
MrBuddyLee (4) -- Glork, DrippingGoofball, Fritzler, inHimshallibe
Yosarian2 (1) -- Ectomancer

Not voting: MrBuddyLee, Flameaxe
18 alive, 10 to lynch

[Yosarian2]

On an unrelated note, I don't get the votes on CES at all. CES is obviously town here.

Obv town:
CES
Dripping Goofball

How many games are you playing? Because you aren't reporting on

this

one.

Oh, I am. DGB is quite obviously town in this game, and so is CES.

Why don't you try to quantify that attack exactly, because there has been nothing but slander, derisive comments, false information and wild speculation based upon that false information. There isn't a single worthy item that I have disputed or shown to be flat out wrong.

Do you want me to make a list of logical, factual problems I have had with your play, questions I've asked you, and reasons I've given for suspecting you that you have not either "disputed", "shown to be flat out wrong", or even responded to? It's a long list.

[Yosarian2]

I'm the Doc.

Shit. Shit shit shit.

If you're really a doctor, then why in the name of hell have you been trying so goddamned hard to get yourself lynched today?

unvote

Vote:chamber

for the moment while I think about this.

Crap, how long do we have until deadline?

[Shanba]

If you're really a doctor, then why in the name of hell have you been trying so goddamned hard to get yourself lynched today?

Or maybe you've just been trying really hard to get him lynched by blowing up small shit and attacking him vis playstyle over substance. /notbitter.

I need to get my head right for this. I'm struggling to articulate what exactly it is about you that is so ridic scummy but you're pretty much on top. I doubt I'll die tonight, so I'll be using the night phase to try and get to grips.

[MrBuddyLee]

Fritz and CES, is the guy scum?

Who cares? Let's either lynch him or you. I don't really care at this point.

I'd rather see Ecto lynched than MBL. The former is worth more information, the latter is more obviously town. Either is bad though.

Yeah, bad guys maybe.

Fritz, do you buy Ecto's claim?

[Yosarian2]

You especially, and Yos as well were both making false statements.

I have not made once false statement all game, and I'm sure you know that's true. You consistently have. If you're actually a pro-town doctor, then I'm so incredibly frustrated with you right now.

Or maybe you've just been trying really hard to get him lynched by blowing up small shit and attacking him vis playstyle over substance. /notbitter.

Also, if Ecto is pro-town, Shanba seems scummy to me. Nothing about his reaction in his last few posts feels believable to me. I really feel like he must have known that the strawman he attacked me with in his previous post was a complete misrepresentation of what I was saying, and he must know that this isn't accurate either, so this is probably a setup o nhis part.

Anyway, looks like the top 2 wagons are inhim and mbl. Inhim's seemed off to me, but I'm going to do a iso re-read to make sure I'm not OMGUSing him. If it comes down to it, I would vote for either one of them rather then have a no-lynch.

[Yosarian2]

Eh. After an ISO read of inhim's posts, I'm less enthusiastic about lynching him. His posts honestly more like paranoid town then anything else to me. I do think it's silly and pretty ineffectual to try and scumhunt on day 1 with no information by trying to make connections between players the way he's been doing, especally in an 18 player game, but it's not scummy. I think my suspicion on him earlier was partly based on him being a possible ecto scum buddy, but I don't really think Ecto is scum now, so that's out the window.

Let me do an iso read on MBL next.

[HackerHuck]

Yes, the Ecto votes really need to move.

I took a look at the leading wagons (yes I'm still behind on reviewing everyone) and didn't find anything I really liked. I would say that out of these three (Ecto, MBL, Inhim) I'd choose InHim to avoid a lynch, but I didn't really seem much that was scummy. The worst would probably be his obsession with Mert that doesn't really have any stated substance. However, in reading Mert, there's a wagon that I would actually go along with. His hop on the Untrod wagon was looked like it was slipped in there to avoid being noticed and he even dodged the question when called on it. The way he went after Ecto by using Ecto's first newbie game seems like a huge stretch as well. I doubt there are many people that haven't changed from their very first game. I'm a little bothered that Ythill is looking at him so closely, since I'm still feeling him to be scum, but that could be bussing.

unvote: Ythill
Vote: Mert

[Ectomancer]

Well Mert hasn't posted in 7 days either. With 2 replacements needed, I think the game could do with at least a 24 hour extension once the replacements are found.

[Patrick]

Well Mert hasn't posted in 7 days either. With 2 replacements needed, I think the game could do with at least a 24 hour extension once the replacements are found.

Mert isn't being replaced, he's been V/LA since Friday morning.

[ChannelDelibird]

Yos and Hacker both placing first votes on people this close to wagon does not seem helpful.

(For the record, I don't see why I would want to lynch chamber today. Mert I guess I would settle for, but still rather inHim.)

[Yosarian2]

And the topper of all this is in his #590 he has officially not listed Gurgi and MBL in his reads despite >20% of his posts involving those two.

I noticed that as well, and wondered why.

Yos

, if you've made it through this particular wall of text, what's your take on Gurgi and myself?

Yeah, I figured I'd draw fire for not mentioning a few people on that list.

I don't have a problem with gurgi's play. It generally seems to fit how I've seen him play as town.

About you; the large majority of your play seems pro-town so far. I do like your questioning of everyone and your scumhunting so far. I do know for a fact that you are capable of all of that as scum, though; you've completely fooled me in the past as scum, and I don't have a lot of faith in my ability to read you "directly" (as opposed to, in relation to other people of known alignment.) The one thing that bothers me is that it seems a little strange to me that despite the fact that deadline's tommorow, you're not voting for anyone right now, and I'm not entirely clear on who you do want lynched and/or would be willing to see lynched. The unvote of Ecto makes sense, of course, but I don't get why you don't have your vote on anyone right now, and I don't have a good idea of who your top suspects are. If you had to pick someone right now you'd want to see lynched, who would it be?

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm willing to lynch Mert. I'm not wild about any of the current wagons, including MBL's, that I'm currently riding.

[Yosarian2]

Mert hasn't done anything to get on my town list, which means by definition I'd be willing to lynch him. That being said, I'm not sure it's a good idea to quicklynch someone while they're on V/La and can't claim.

I donno.

[DrippingGoofball]

Maybe Mert likes suprises?

[Yosarian2]

Lol. That's probably the funniest one liner I've read in a mafia game in a long time.

[Ectomancer]

Mert, we decided to downsize and since the town was doing well without you...

[chamber]

People Im willing to lynch: CDB, YTHILL, YOS, SHANBA, STARK, INHIM.

[DrippingGoofball]

You KNOW I'd really like to hang Shanba.

[Ythill]

I'll trust my read over the fleeting chance that Mert is both town and a power role.

UNVOTE: inHim
VOTE: Mert

Gogogo.

[MrBuddyLee]

Not sure yet on a vote. I was caught with my pants down by the whole deadline situation, and I'm not really in the mood to gin up instant ten-vote suspicion on someone. These things take time to do properly.

Yos

, what did you find scummiest about your earlier exchange with chamber? When I read your summary:

Well, he hasn't done much this game, and most of what he has done has been pretty scummy. The post where he asked CES if he wanted to "start a wagon against Yos or Ythill", designed in a way to make it sound like it was a joke when it wasn't, seemed scummy. I don't really get his vote against UT, he never explained it; and then his case against Ythill was worse, and he refused to explain it when asked. I just don't see his actions so far this game as being pro-town, or as having any pro-town intent.

it didn't seem to match your degree of conviction in his alignment:

Man; is it really just me, or does everyone else look at chamber's posts and just seem him as incredibly obvscum here?

Is there any way you can effectively communicate your degree of conviction that chamber is scum?

I was fine with your "prods" of Ecto. You seemed to want answers to help you read him. I found it weird that Glork attacked me for "helping" my scumbuddy Ecto but didn't go after you for the same thing. Did you process that?

Can you explain your solid protown read on Ythill? When he called your Ecto and chamber communications insincere, was that a genuine misread on his part?

Ythill

, can you please explain your case on Yos? It didn't look as convincing to me as you seem to have convinced yourself it is. I'm a little confused by your playstyle--you say a ton of stuff and make a lot of observations but don't really try to sell your beliefs when it comes down to it. You're voting someone who's at best your #7 suspect. Granted, better him than me, but you get my point.

chamber

, can you please explain what you were hoping everyone else would see about Ythill? I didn't see it. Also, why stark?

[MrBuddyLee]

You're voting someone who's at best your #7 suspect. Granted, better him than me, but you get my point.

EBWOP: motherfucker

[Yosarian2]

Not sure yet on a vote. I was caught with my pants down by the whole deadline situation, and I'm not really in the mood to gin up instant ten-vote suspicion on someone. These things take time to do properly.

Yos

, what did you find scummiest about your earlier exchange with chamber? When I read your summary:

Well, he hasn't done much this game, and most of what he has done has been pretty scummy. The post where he asked CES if he wanted to "start a wagon against Yos or Ythill", designed in a way to make it sound like it was a joke when it wasn't, seemed scummy. I don't really get his vote against UT, he never explained it; and then his case against Ythill was worse, and he refused to explain it when asked. I just don't see his actions so far this game as being pro-town, or as having any pro-town intent.

it didn't seem to match your degree of conviction in his alignment:

Man; is it really just me, or does everyone else look at chamber's posts and just seem him as incredibly obvscum here?

Is there any way you can effectively communicate your degree of conviction that chamber is scum?

Bunch of things.

-I think he was buddying up to CES, who I'm pretty sure is town.

-The thing I explained in the top post; he seemed to be trying to have it both ways, to "jokingly" sugggest that him and CES wagon "either Ythill or Yos", and be able to both play it off as a joke and expect to be taken seriously at the same time. He never explained it, never really persued it, but then seemed surprised that I didn't know he actually suspected me.

-I really hate the way he came off in the whole exchange between him and ythill. Those posts "Classic scum post" and "flailing" seemed, I donno, despereate I guess.

-And then when I tried to get him to clarify his read on Ythill, he refused.

-The whole thing seemed like an attempt to whip up a crap wagon out of nowhere. And then, when it didn't work, his posting dropped out.

-I didn't really want to mention this, but I was wondering if he was trying to get Stark modkilled with that quoted AIM conversation.

-The rest of his posts since then have been pretty much worthless

Can you explain your solid protown read on Ythill? When he called your Ecto and chamber communications insincere, was that a genuine misread on his part?

I can try. It's a bunch of things. If a well known experienced player announces that he trusts person X, and person X is scum, person X says "horray" and tries to cash in on it. If a well known experienced player announces he trusts person X, and person X is town, he sometimes gets paranoid and twitchy about it.

Even before that, though, he looked townish. His posts have kind of a transparent feel to them, like I can tell what he's thinking. Stuff like the way he took a principled stance against lynching lurkers and went off on a crusade against charter for trying a pre-emptive flaker lynch just feel pro-town to me. I don't think he's trying to hide his thoughts at all; it seems like everything he thinks, he puts right into a post, even if it's completely the opposite of what he just said 5 minutes ago. That's all the kind of stuff town people do and scum usually don't.

[Ythill]

EBWOP: motherfucker

I'm not kidding either. He is the best lynch.

can you please explain your case on Yos?

Not looking to post noise ATM. Did you have a specific question? Please be brief.

I'm a little confused by your playstyle--you say a ton of stuff and make a lot of observations but don't really try to sell your beliefs when it comes down to it.

If I had anything like a sure thing, I'd be selling it like crazy. I don't. Yet.

We've got ~17.5 hours.

[Ectomancer]

Ecto & UT:

I think this game would seriously benefit from the two of you voting a dissenter wagon together. Is there one you can agree on?

I think he is town. I believe we can work together on this one.

I would be down with lynching MBL, possibly Yos2 (cmon, you know when you are keeping the ball rolling)
I would listen to you on Flameaxe or Mert or CES or chamber or CTD
These people are likely town and it would be difficult to sway me (in no particular order): inhimshallibe, Glork, Fritzler, Shanba, Hackerhuck
I put a bee in stark's bonnet. That's my fault. He could react better, but I wouldn't lynch him, though I dont know if he's town. I don't think I would lynch Ythill either. Gurgi isn't a good lynch either. I think IH might be playing, Im not certain.

I'm holding with MBL town. Here's what I had to say about his actions when it became "inevitable" that Ecto would be lynched and turn up town.

Town members who drive a wagon HAS A RIGHT to demand that the rest of the people on the wagon EXPLAIN THEIR VOTE. It is those votes that give you the confidence that you are correct and should continue driving the case. HOWEVER, when you DOUBT that those on the wagon are sincere, it calls into question the very wagon itself as you no longer can trust in what was giving you confidence.

Yosarian2, I apologize for putting it in a way that is indefensible, but based upon my previous experiences with you as town, I believe that you are scum in this game.

CES is scum.

Stark has a better chance of being scum than of being town.

Gurgi is an enigma

DGB is crazy. May not make her scum.

chamber doesnt strike me as scum this game, though I cant say he strikes me as town either

I've paid little attention to CTD.

FlameAxe and Mert havent been around to be anything but neutral

Ythill, inhimshallibe, hackerhuck, and shanba all town to me

Glork is probably town

After my initial gut read of an honest town Fritzler, he has done much to reinforce that idea honestly. I cant rate him as anything but neutral.