Mini 1094 - Mariposa Peak Mafia - Game Over!

[Thor665]

Scum motivation to claim SK: draw attention off of self, hopefully displace it somewhere else. A bit of misdirection, perhaps, or maybe just a gambit to try and get scum to survive to the endgame.

SK motivation for claiming SK: Uh, just go look at Skillville Mafia, which just ended. SK claimed, fucked over scum AND town, made it to endgame.

Town motivation for claiming SK:

Awkward reaction fishing

The scum motivation you've listed actually still manages to make less sense than the town one I inserted - and that's saying something.
Haven't read Skillville but why in the universe wasn't a claimed SK lynched earlier than endgame?

@Confid - Um...wait, so you're saying that because I believe the guy claiming SK isn't an SK that makes me the SK? Theoretically by you believing I could be the SK you just showed that you don't believe Gud is the SK which suggests you are the SK by the same logic. Please, go bang your head against a wall a few times until that logic slips out of it. Also, just because Gud didn't outright deny his roleclaim doesn't mean he didn't do it pretty clearly.

[DemonHybrid]

Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect.
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 - 1882)

Vote Count

Day 1 Vote Count (#10)

Guderian

- 5 (Reckamonic, singersigner, Powerrox93, Seraphim, sims5487)

Blood Queen

- 1 (AGar)

AGar

- 1 (Blood Queen)

singersigner

- 1 (Carrotcake)

Powerrox93

- 1 (Thor665)

ConfidAnon

- 1 (Guderian)

Thor665

- 1 (ConfidAnon)

Not Voting

- 1 (Rhinox)

With 12 players, it takes 7 to lynch and 6 for a No Lynch. Deadline is scheduled for December 21st, 2010 at 1:00:00 AM Eastern Standard Time.

Powerrox93 will be V/LA after Sunday, December 26th until an unknown time.

Rhinox is V/LA on the weekends (Friday to Sunday)

You have EIGHT days to lynch.

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[Thor665]

@Reck - looking at Skillville I can see why that annoys you, but I think we should agree that game had a couple interesting permutations that are likely not in this game. So we're back where I believe we started - with none of the roles having a particularly good reason to claim SK, and from there it's functional of me to draw the conclusions I choose to. I really see Gud as either 3rd party or town at this stage as scum have less reason than either of the others to do what he's done, and considering his commentary to AGar I don't see him as likely SK if he is 3rd party.

[sims5487]

The bolded bothers me. It is noted that you didn't start referring to yourself as a newb until others wrote off your odd behavior earlier as newbtells.

Holy god, are we still on about this? I admitted to being a newb as soon as the question of my experience was brought up. Nothing to hide there. Why is that still stuck in your craw?

How? I dont understand any of this post. Offer allegiance???

Okay. As soon as you claimed SK, CarrotCake piped up an immediately started defending you, going so far as to posit that we should not only avoid voting for you, but

keep you alive for as long as possible

to use you as leverage and get you to help us lynch scum.

Sounds like an allegiance to me, no?

[ConfidAnon]

Confid, what do you think about the serial killer claim?

VI trying a gambit, or trolling. I can't believe that anyone would claim SK seriously this early in a game.

I brought up the English thing because, at times, it seems that your posts are a little awkwardly worded, and I was wondering if that was more of a personality thing or a language barrier thing.

@Confid - Um...wait, so you're saying that because I believe the guy claiming SK isn't an SK that makes me the SK? Theoretically by you believing I could be the SK you just showed that you don't believe Gud is the SK which suggests you are the SK by the same logic. Please, go bang your head against a wall a few times until that logic slips out of it. Also, just because Gud didn't outright deny his roleclaim doesn't mean he didn't do it pretty clearly.

No. I'm saying you could have accidentally combined the knowledge that Gud wasn't the SK with what you read in the thread, and accidentally posted something that hadn't happened.

Holy god, are we still on about this? I admitted to being a newb as soon as the question of my experience was brought up. Nothing to hide there. Why is that still stuck in your craw?

No, this is a completely new point entirely. Prefacing an argument with "I'm a noob" can be an attempt to diminish the fire you come under for crap logic. (I think your logic is a bit overeager, but not neccessarily bad.)

[singersigner]

The bolded bothers me. It is noted that you didn't start referring to yourself as a newb until others wrote off your odd behavior earlier as newbtells.

Holy god, are we still on about this? I admitted to being a newb as soon as the question of my experience was brought up. Nothing to hide there. Why is that still stuck in your craw?

1.

How? I dont understand any of this post. Offer allegiance???

Okay. As soon as you claimed SK, CarrotCake piped up an immediately started defending you, going so far as to posit that we should not only avoid voting for you, but

keep you alive for as long as possible

to use you as leverage and get you to help us lynch scum.

2.

Sounds like an allegiance to me, no?

1. This is irrelevant. The only relevance it has is when you start using it to defend your actions. Oh wait... No, we're not going to hold your hand. Just give us what you have, and THEN we'll tell you if it's dumb. Don't try to preemptively cover up dumb cases by saying "oh I'm not good, I'm just a newb" etc.
2. This is true. CC did look fairly opportunistic by jumping on the possibility of an "allegiance." I don't think it's a good idea.

@Confid - Um...wait, so you're saying that because I believe the guy claiming SK isn't an SK that makes me the SK? Theoretically by you believing I could be the SK you just showed that you don't believe Gud is the SK which suggests you are the SK by the same logic. Please, go bang your head against a wall a few times until that logic slips out of it. Also, just because Gud didn't outright deny his roleclaim doesn't mean he didn't do it pretty clearly.

You conveniently sidestepped where he pointed out that you claimed Gud retracted his claim. I'm trying to see where you might've even interpreted anything he's posted as saying such. Mind clearing that up for me?

Plus, Guderian should fully reveal all of his powers. To allow us to judge the truthfullness of his claim, and grant us insight. Who knows, maybe we can work out a deal; such as giving us the option of forcing a draw in case things go badly for the town.

I've already agreed with those who point out the ridiculousness of your "allegiance" idea. Did you really think that through?

Whoever hammers before things get sorted out will be crucified tommorow. The: "He was scummy and I regret nothing!" isn't going to cut it.

I agree with Reckamonic. Your threats are empty in this game.

A lot of people are looking scummy. Not least of all the dynamic duo: agar and thor.

It's funny that you point these two out specifically, and yet your vote is still placed on me.


Clearly the only option is to lynch Guderian. I see nothing good out of keeping him alive.

[sims5487]

1. This is irrelevant. The only relevance it has is when you start using it to defend your actions. Oh wait... No, we're not going to hold your hand. Just give us what you have, and THEN we'll tell you if it's dumb. Don't try to preemptively cover up dumb cases by saying "oh I'm not good, I'm just a newb" etc.

No problem. If it is to everyone's liking, I will clearly mark any and all sarcasm from here on out. (For the record this is less sarcasm and more of a cynical retort.)

[Seraphim]

Thor is so town it hurts. Wow this is going to be such an easy game.

Explain
Explain so hard

Pray for your soul if you can't tell that thor is town. It's seriously not that difficult. Look at thor's play and tell me how in the world it came from scum.

Who knows, maybe we can work out a deal; such as giving us the option of forcing a draw in case things go badly for the town.

I think Reck spelled this out pretty clearly, but here it is again: scum or SKs are not willing to cut deals. They are playing to their win conditions. Only roles like Jesters, Lynchers, and survivors can win WITH the town. They are technically "anti-town" but, persay, mutually against a town victory. Not to mention with SKs, there's always the danger you're just cutting a deal with a scumbag.

Look folks, let's lynch Guderian. If he was actually a serial killer, that might be a different can of worms, but since he has since (I think) rescinded the claim, we have to lynch him. The bag o' WIFOM that he has unleashed with his SK claim is not worth dealing with, especially in the long run. Also, don't forget that if Guderian is the SK and this is some bizarre gambit, this is a 8:3:1 or 9:2:1 and if we mislynch town today, we are in a much worse position. Sure, there's also the possibility of a scum-SK crosskill but I find that highly unlikely given, as stated, the amount of WIFOM about him.

Rally the troops for a lynch.

[Thor665]

You conveniently sidestepped where he pointed out that you claimed Gud retracted his claim. I'm trying to see where you might've even interpreted anything he's posted as saying such. Mind clearing that up for me?

Actually I didn't sidestep it at all since I noted that he didn't overtly back off from the claim, but still pretty clearly did.

Bottom of page 8 and top of page 9. Uses reactions to his claim as scumhunting tells on Confid and claims that he got what he wanted from the claim he made. It's pretty obvious what is being said there.

[Guderian]

Before I answer seraphim, tell me, do you think I am or am not the serial killer?

If he was actually a serial killer

Also, don't forget that if Guderian is the SK

sims, if carrot cake was offering allegiance, why is she doing it, and what does it mean? I have never heard of anything like this in before in any game I have played

Okay. As soon as you claimed SK, CarrotCake piped up an immediately started defending you, going so far as to posit that we should not only avoid voting for you, but keep you alive for as long as possible to use you as leverage and get you to help us lynch scum.

Sounds like an allegiance to me, no?

singer,

Clearly the only option is to lynch Guderian.

hmmmm

[Carrotcake]

I'm in class so just one or two things.

Pray for your soul if you can't tell that thor is town. It's seriously not that difficult. Look at thor's play and tell me how in the world it came from scum.

It's safe to assume everyone is scum.
You have baselessly assumed something

dangerous

why?

Tell me why it's obvious?
Because you are so enamored by his personality?
And love is the truth.
All you need is love?

Thor; deflection, seriously? You are guilty of oversimplification, and hoped to spread your ignorance to the town.
PLUS your continued act of turning a blind eye to agar, who so directly appeals to you, is getting scummy.
sup singer; I was fine with either agar, thor, or seph as a lynch. And am waiting for whoever one of them gains momentum.
But, fine sure.

/vote thor

[Reckamonic]

Carrotcake voted Thor?
LOL.

[Thor665]

PLUS your continued act of turning a blind eye to agar, who so directly appeals to you, is getting scummy.

To get this straight;
You think AGar is buddying up to me and the fact I don't call him on it makes me scum?
Please tell me I'm misunderstanding this and clarify how.

[ConfidAnon]

Thor and Gud - both of you kind of ignored my responses to you. Any comments?

[Guderian]

VI trying a gambit, or trolling. I can't believe that anyone would claim SK seriously this early in a game.

I brought up the English thing because, at times, it seems that your posts are a little awkwardly worded, and I was wondering if that was more of a personality thing or a language barrier thing.

First you call me and idiot, then a troll. Ok I guess...

English is fluent.

Your whole post was basically riffing me. You wanted me to respond to that?

[Thor665]

@Confid - I hate to echo Gud, but frankly I agree. Your response to me was relatively pointless. Clearly you don't agree with me and I already made it clear I thought your case was gak. You brought nothing new to bear so all a response would do would be to get the two of us going

You: 'you thought he wasn't an SK, so you're the SK!'
Me: 'You're a twit, read his posts.'
You:'You're the twit, look at my case!'
Me: 'What case? The case of twitiness? I showed where he clearly backed off from his claim.'
You: 'He clearly backed off from your Mom. unless he explicitly backed off than he never backed off and you're the SK!'
Me: 'Give me your address, I'm an internet tough guy and will claim a desire to drive to your house eight states away and do battle over this issue.'
You: 'Bring your mom too, I desire some follow up fellatio after I basically murder you in the driveway.'
Me: '...you're a twit.'
You: 'You're the SK.'

So I just skipped past that by not responding. Do you have a new point you feel you brought up that I should respond to? All you appeared to do is restate your original point, and I already did our argument, so we might as well move forward until something new happens in that quarter. If you want responses than advance issues or ask follow up questions. You didn't leave either Gud or I anything worth responding to.

[Powerrox93]

Ok... ... ... But I'm not any smarter then I was before so
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Guderian

hmmm.

And that doesn't make you look any better at all.

[Guderian]

power, You have 15 posts. most are filled with hopping on the biggest bandwagon. You have little gems like this

Carrotcake brings up some important point.

Maybe I wasn't interested at all in AGar, maybe I was more interested in Rhinox by then.

Which you didnt elaborate or follow up on. Why Not?

And that doesn't make you look any better at all.

There is two full pages of content between this post and the quoted post. Nothing to talk about? If you whole case on me....? What exactly is it.

There is enough going on in this game that you could talk about, ask about, or inquire about.

[Powerrox93]

Thor never responded to my post 168 despite that he wanted the answer.

[Carrotcake]

Let's look at seraph.

His sudden aggressive attack on singersigner looks more like scum trying to troll reactions out of a player with a "history" of falling play to such attacks. It's kinda like scum trying to get VI players to look scummy because they have a history of it.

He accepts that VI's aren't necessarily scum, and that going after them is scummy.

sorry, I forgot.

Claim: Serial Killer

DEAR GOD WHAT THE FUCK. This may be the stupidest thing I've seen all game and this game is full of stupid stuff.

Guderian is one dead motherfucker.

Unvote
Vote: XXXXXX

Contradiction!

He basically votes for Guder for being a VI.

Guys, we really need more Guderian votes. Think about it.

And pushes for it!
{translation: seraph: think about it for me}

Thor is so town it hurts. Wow this is going to be such an easy game.

Baseless complacency. Indicative of inside knowledge. Definitely a scum-tell.

Thor:
I called him on it. But you refused to acknowledge it - important, as he is creating a relationship between you two. And you are trying as hard as you can to keep it down low. Even you know, i'm sure, that your case against poweree is garbage.

Making garbage cases is fine, day one, as it creates discussion. But your follow-through perverts any discussion really, and just tries for a mislynch.

Thor: [Obvious garbage case against power]
Agar: [I totally agree. It's totally logical]
...
...
Thor: [Sup, friend agar]

If I had a list at this moment it would be.

[Scummiest]
Seraph
Agar
Thor
Powerree <- That maybe is troubling. Were you using it as a figure of speech?

Guder is obviously on tilt. I'll wait a few days to let him cool down and get some truth out of this.

With my vote going to the person with the greatest amount of momentum.
A

[ConfidAnon]

First you call me and idiot, then a troll. Ok I guess...

English is fluent.

Your whole post was basically riffing me. You wanted me to respond to that?

No, I wanted to see your thoughts on your case on me after I responded.

(And those weren't meant as personal insults.)

You obviously read it, because you responded to the English comment, but you didn't respond to anything else (even though some of the points, as I pointed out, were your misunderstandings of what happened in thread).

So I just skipped past that by not responding. Do you have a new point you feel you brought up that I should respond to? All you appeared to do is restate your original point, and I already did our argument, so we might as well move forward until something new happens in that quarter. If you want responses than advance issues or ask follow up questions. You didn't leave either Gud or I anything worth responding to.

To me, your original response was not true to my original point. By restating, I thought I was clarifying. You ignored the main point and instead, kind of tried to turn it back around on me, using a different line of logic than I originally did.

[Rhinox]

Alright, this is something I wanted to get out there since last week and finally now have time to post it. I'll use confid's post here as a launch point because its a basic summary of what I want to talk about.

This is regarding Agar's case on BQ:

If he were saying "Lynch Blood Queen. If Town, lynch ConfidAnon. If scum, lynch sims," it would be more suspect because he's trying to lead up a lynch with another lynch regardless of what happens. But in this game, his suspicion of Blood Queen directly stems from what he views as Blood Queen's protection (from joining the AGar wagon) of sims. While I'm not sure pursuing a lynch this early based purely on voting patterns and not on individual scumminess is the best course of action, saying "Lynch Blood Queen. If scum, lynch sims. If not scum, I'll reread sims" is not scummy - it's a logical continuation of his viewpoint.

This is wrong. Agar's case on bloodqueen is dependent on the assumption that sims is scum.

The logic should be: lynch sims. if sims-scum, lynch BQ. If sims-town, then there is no case on BQ.

It does not follow in reverse. If BQ is scum, it does not follow that sims is any more likely to be scum, and if BQ is town, it does not say anything about sims' allignment.

I feel this is a strike 2 for Agar. First was pushing Gud's lynch without voting. I fear it is possible scum-agar could be setting up the potential for 2 mislynches. After BQ-town, sims can still be lynched later on because a BQ-town flip would not say anything about sims' allignment. While in reverse, a sims-town flip completely obliterates Agar's case on BQ.

In #167, Agar is claiming it's the other way around. I don't buy it because Agar suspected BQ of voting to prevent the lynch of scumpartner-sims - aka BQ is scum is supported if sims is scum, not the other way around.

Agar's appeal to authority might just be strike 3. I don't care how many games he's played, that doesn't make him a better scum hunter. By that metric, zwets would pwn us all. I think Agar is taking advantage of the fact that half the players in this game (and the majority of the most active posters currently) are new-er-ish.


I can't even begin to comprehend the last couple pages. Gud: Why did you claim SK?

[AGar]

Town motivation for claiming SK: Um. ...yeah, nothing.

1. Reactions
2. something about me. It has helped this part definitely.

Scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Guderian

Want to give us your real claim now?

[AGar]

Am I supposed to respond to 246?

[DemonHybrid]

The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them.
Lois McMaster Bujold, Diplomatic Immunity, 2002

Vote Count

Day 1 Vote Count (#11)

Guderian

- 6 (Reckamonic, singersigner, Powerrox93, Seraphim, sims5487, AGar)

Thor665

- 2 (ConfidAnon, Carrotcake)

AGar

- 1 (Blood Queen)

Powerrox93

- 1 (Thor665)

ConfidAnon

- 1 (Guderian)

Not Voting

- 1 (Rhinox)

With 12 players, it takes 7 to lynch and 6 for a No Lynch. Deadline is scheduled for December 21st, 2010 at 1:00:00 AM Eastern Standard Time.

Powerrox93 will be V/LA after Sunday, December 26th until an unknown time.

Rhinox is V/LA on the weekends (Friday to Sunday)

You have SEVEN days to lynch.

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