Oldy Mafia (Game Over, who won?)

[MrBuddyLee]

I also think it was anti-town of him to not be voting anyone after the Ecto wagon collapsed yesterday.

In fact,

unvote:chamber

Vote: MBL

. I think this is the way to go today.

So chamber, Gurgi, MBL is your scumteam at this point. What made you decide to switch from voting chamber to voting me? Was it inHim's vote on me, which he retracted?

You recently had chamber as "almost definitely scum, how do you guys not see it" and your conclusion on my day one play was "you look pretty town but I know you're capable of fooling me". Can you please explain how that's flipped, or do you still feel more strongly about chamberscum?

I apologize if I've asked you this before, but I'm running out to get a pizza and I want to see the answer to this. I'll look for it when I get back if you've answered it before. Can you explain your town read on inHim?

@

Shanba

: Will you be around and playing the game regularly between now and January 4th? I'm looking forward to your inHim and Ythill reads, plus a more elaborate Glorkread, among others.

[MrBuddyLee]

Oh, the reason I originally quoted that from you was to ask this, Yos:

Do you think the questions I was asking yesterday as we headed down to the wire, and the questions I'm asking today, are useless? I was at 4 votes when Ecto claimed, and inHim was at 4/5, and I didn't want to mindlessly tack on a vote just to save my ass and add momentum to inHim's wagon. Instead, I asked him and others a few things I thought might make my decision clearer.

I accept that you find me heavy on questions light on conclusions, but I still think they're the right questions to be asking. When we finally get a scumflip, I think town will find the answers to those questions a lot more useful than they do now.

Over the next week, I'll try to put together an integrated picture of how I see the game. We have some time, as long as people are participating here and there over the holiday. The picture's definitely coming clearer.

[Yosarian2]

So chamber, Gurgi, MBL is your scumteam at this point. What made you decide to switch from voting chamber to voting me? Was it inHim's vote on me, which he retracted?

Eh. The more I think about how day 1 ended, the more I think that Glork's theory is right, that either you or Inhim is likely to be scum. And the way InHim himself was willing to bring that up and attack you with it, even though it's an argument that he would certanly expect tobe used against him tommorow if you don't flip scum, makes me think he's probably town.

I think I was giving you town points yesterday because I agreed with your attack on Ecto, even towards the end of the day after he claimed, but now that I know for a fact that he was the town doctor I can't do that anymore; even though I agreed with you at the time, I can't consider running up the doc a town tell, heh. The problem is that if I re-read your play, and don't count the Ecto stuff as a town tell, I don't really see anything left I can cal a town tell. The Ecto wagon is really all you did on day 1, and other then your attack on me, you haven't done much today either. (Other then ask a lot of questions, which is great, but that dosn't help me figure our your alignment.)

I donno. I kind of felt like we were going in the wrong direction this game, so I rebooted my brain and tried to re-read it with fresh eyes.

You recently had chamber as "almost definitely scum, how do you guys not see it" and your conclusion on my day one play was "you look pretty town but I know you're capable of fooling me". Can you please explain how that's flipped, or do you still feel more strongly about chamberscum?

Well, he's still on my scumlist. No one else seems interested in a chamber lynch today though, for some reason.

I apologize if I've asked you this before, but I'm running out to get a pizza and I want to see the answer to this. I'll look for it when I get back if you've answered it before. Can you explain your town read on inHim?

Not...easily, to be honest. It's partly meta, his play so far feels a lot like pro-town inhim play. I think his day 1 attack on me probably did have pro-town motives, like I said at the end of the day yesterday, and his attacks on Gurgi and you today make a lot of sense to me. I'm going to have to say it's mostly gut at this point.

[Yosarian2]

Oh, the reason I originally quoted that from you was to ask this, Yos:

Do you think the questions I was asking yesterday as we headed down to the wire, and the questions I'm asking today, are useless? I was at 4 votes when Ecto claimed, and inHim was at 4/5, and I didn't want to mindlessly tack on a vote just to save my ass and add momentum to inHim's wagon. Instead, I asked him and others a few things I thought might make my decision clearer.

Well, the fact you didn't vote for InHim when you could possibly have helped save your ass with an inhim vote is a fair point. It's kind of WIFOMy, though; if you had voted for InHim in order to save your ass, it might have made you look more scummy and actually increased your odds of getting lynched, ect.

It just seems to me that, if you didn't want to vote for Inhim there for whatever reason, you could have voted for someone. If you're town, then I'd assume you don't want to lynch yourself, and I'd assume you don't want a no-lynch; voting for anyone at that point lowers the risk of either of those things happening. In a "town must have majority at deadline or no-lynch" game, anyone who's not voting at deadline makes it harder for the town to lynch, and, equally important, any pro-town person who's not voting at deadline makes it much harder for the town to lynch any wagon that's not scum-backed.

I just don't see it. If you didn't want to lynch InHim, you could have voted a lurker, or voted someone else you found scummy, or just voted anyone who wasn't on your townlist.

I accept that you find me heavy on questions light on conclusions, but I still think they're the right questions to be asking. When we finally get a scumflip, I think town will find the answers to those questions a lot more useful than they do now.

Ok, but that doesn't help me read you at all. It's quite easy for scum to ask lots of questions and look thoughtful and active without saying much. I don't think asking questions is scummy, but I'm having a hard time finding anything in your posting that can give me a town read on you.

Over the next week, I'll try to put together an integrated picture of how I see the game.

I'll be looking forward to it.

[DrippingGoofball]

Why are people unvoting CDB?????????????

grrrrrrrrr

[Porochaz]

Because the wagon makes no sense?

[Ythill]

Prozac:

Look at my iso to understand my unvote. Tl;dr: I called for a show of votes on Yos, someone suggested CDB first and he is on my scumlist so I was fine with that, we got a VC and a day or two for stuff to happen, then I went back to Yos.

Still waiting for the people who are willing to lynch Yos to wagon him so that we can get that VC.

@Yos:

Here's what I mean...

However, other then the Ecto wagon, you haven't given much in the way of useful reads on people; a lot of interesting questions, but I don't know what, if anything, you've gotten out of the answers to all of those questions. The only other person you've actually attacked all game is me

There were clear attacks made against myself and Glork, and an arguable attack against DGB. Plus the questions were obviously designed not to provide magical conclusions but to get potential scum on the record about important topics. Misrep city.

@DGB:

He's still on my scumlist, but not at the top. I can always hop back if needed.

[DrippingGoofball]

Because the wagon makes no sense?

Because it

does

make sense and UT/CDB's player slot is a bandwagon-happy lurker, in other words, 5!<u/\/\.

There is no reason to abandon this wagon until UT/CDB shows up and claims scum. Also, read my sig.

Ythill, do not sabotage the UT/CDB wagon. It is good stuff. Choo choo!

[chamber]

Cases are scummy? =D

<3


I'm just waiting on CDB to show up at this point.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm just waiting on CDB to show up at this point.

Now,

THAT

's what I like to hear. Not "

hey let's distract ourselves with some less worthy wagon

."

[chamber]

His V/LA is done today, and its already the early evening over there, so I expect SOMETHING soon.

[inHimshallibe]

Would be rather surprised if UT ends up scum after all.

So why were you on his wagon?

You mean on Day 1? Before I expressed my thoughts on him being frustrated Town?

When CDB shows up and claims something, if you all believe it let's lynch Gurgi.

[inHimshallibe]

Votecount

Yosarian2 (3) -- Shanba, MrBuddyLee, Ythill
inHimshallibe (2) -- ChannelDelibird, Lord Gurgi
ChannelDelibird (6) -- Glork, chamber, Cogito Ergo Sum, Ether, DrippingGoofball, CrashTextDummie
Shanba (1) -- HackerHuck
Lord Gurgi (1) -- inHimshallibe
Ythill (1) -- Porochaz
MrBuddyLee (1) -- Yosarian2

Not voting: Nobody
15 alive, 8 to lynch

For posterity.

[ChannelDelibird]

Hi guys, I just got back from V/LA. I've been travelling for two straight days and am completely shattered (off to bed as soon as I've posted this message everywhere), but I'll be catching up tomorrow.

[DrippingGoofball]

"fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity."

Overnight is an eternity.

[inHimshallibe]

"fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity."

Overnight is an eternity.

I was going to say something similar, but thought better of it. This could be one of those cases of scummy consistency, though.

[Lord Gurgi]

Sorry inHim, thought you had been on CDB's wagon today.

[MrBuddyLee]

Gurgi,

Is your scumteam inHim, Yos, Ythill, and then one of {DGB, chamber, Prozac, HH, CDB} ?

You summarized your case on Ythill as "He thinks I'm town. I don't really have any other problems with him." Any other details to sell your case?

You said you didn't want to get into specific arguments with Yos because you'd probably lose. But without your actual reasons for suspecting him, it's hard to get a read on you. Got anything specific?

On inHim, you said: "A lot of people have expressed suspicion of inHim too, enough to get it to 5 or 6 votes easily, but it doesn't happen? Why?" The living people who have pushed inHim at various time are you, CDB, Shanba, Delibird, chamber, Ythill. DGB had him as solid town for a while before recently backing off. Ditto for Glork. CES went after him but is currently apathetic about the wagon. That leaves CTD and Huck who see him as townish, I see him as scummier than average or very sloppy, Poro and Ether no opinion. Who do you see as the scum protecting inHim so he can't be lynched?

Those are the most important questions for ya, if you have time, here are a few more:

How do you get your townish read on Glork?

How do you get a top four townish read on Shanba?

You say your top three scumpicks don't really have a chance of being lynched today. Do you really feel that way about Yos and inHim?

Porochaz, what do you think of inHim, Shanba and Yos?
Ether, same question.

[inHimshallibe]

MBL, I'm sorry if this offends you, but I feel like a vast majority of your questions accomplish little to nothing.

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL, I'm sorry if this offends you, but I feel like a vast majority of your questions accomplish little to nothing.

Please feel free to point out a specific question or two of mine that you consider useless. Note I did not phrase that request in the form of a question.

[DrippingGoofball]

MBL, I'm sorry if this offends you, but I feel like a vast majority of your questions accomplish little to nothing.

I have to agree with this.

[DrippingGoofball]

^^^^
That's because there are 100 questions for every conclusion.

DGB had him as solid town for a while before recently backing off.

He's back to being town.

[Lord Gurgi]

Gurgi,

Is your scumteam inHim, Yos, Ythill, and then one of {DGB, chamber, Prozac, HH, CDB} ?

I don't think HH is scum, for the record. I also don't have any sort of confidence in the fourth pick, but I guess that's a list of who I don't read as town. You might throw CTD in there at some point.

You summarized your case on Ythill as "He thinks I'm town. I don't really have any other problems with him." Any other details to sell your case?

Not really! I just don't like nulls telling me I'm town. Makes me suspicious.

You said you didn't want to get into specific arguments with Yos because you'd probably lose. But without your actual reasons for suspecting him, it's hard to get a read on you. Got anything specific?

I pointed out a number of things in the course of the argument that we did have. Is that not specific? Mostly it's just a bad feeling. Yos, Glork, and you all get the burden of proficiency in my book, he just comes off the worst for now. I don't want to lynch you three on day one, for example, but as time goes on I'll be more and more in support of it.

On inHim, you said: "A lot of people have expressed suspicion of inHim too, enough to get it to 5 or 6 votes easily, but it doesn't happen? Why?" The living people who have pushed inHim at various time are you, CDB, Shanba, Delibird, chamber, Ythill. DGB had him as solid town for a while before recently backing off. Ditto for Glork. CES went after him but is currently apathetic about the wagon. That leaves CTD and Huck who see him as townish, I see him as scummier than average or very sloppy, Poro and Ether no opinion. Who do you see as the scum protecting inHim so he can't be lynched?

I wasn't really thinking in terms of protection actually. I saw the CDB wagon as driven more by idiots than scum. I could see DGB protecting inHim, but so many people already have a record of protecting inHim as you pointed out in a previous post. The DGB protection would be via pushing the CDB crapwagon. Other than that, strong moves away from the inHim wagon and say onto Mert might be culpable. I don't think there are too many people de facto protecting inHim. I imagine that by now his team is starting to move away from him and he's connecting himself to random folks by this point and trying to scatter as much as possible. Of course he may not do that or may not be scum, but I think it's more likely that his team is just reluctant to vote him at this stage and any protection that you are looking for would be found day one.

Those are the most important questions for ya, if you have time, here are a few more:

How do you get your townish read on Glork?

Mostly it's the way he's talking. Very relaxed and informal, which is something I associate with being town. The line of thinking is that scum are covering up their play, and so will be more formal and less natural. Glork comes off as being very at ease currently. Yes I do base reads off of small things like this. However I've not played with him before, so this might be how he plays whatever.

How do you get a top four townish read on Shanba?

Meta, mostly. Not anything terribly well defined. Also the contrived wagon against him pushes him into the town category for me.

You say your top three scumpicks don't really have a chance of being lynched today. Do you really feel that way about Yos and inHim?

I doubt that inHim will be lynched, Yos is looking more like a wagon now, but I still expect I'll be forced to compromise on someone I don't really think is scum.

Yeah I guess you guys are used to really well constructed cases, which you're probably not going to get from me. I played that way two or three years ago as some of you may remember, but not anymore.

Where's Ether?

[Ether]

Hi, Gurgi. That last line is the only part of your post I've actually read, but I do like a coincidence.

I'm five pages behind, on top of not having read up. It's...the opposite of my normal situation with this sort of thing, I guess. I'm busy in real life, and this game's suffering the fallout.

My last exam is on Thursday. I refuse to jinx anything by making

promises

, but it's certainly something to keep in mind if I

don't

come back then.

[Patrick]

Votecount

Yosarian2 (3) -- Shanba, MrBuddyLee, Ythill
inHimshallibe (2) -- ChannelDelibird, Lord Gurgi
ChannelDelibird (6) -- Glork, chamber, Cogito Ergo Sum, Ether, DrippingGoofball, CrashTextDummie
Shanba (1) -- HackerHuck
Lord Gurgi (1) -- inHimshallibe
Ythill (1) -- Porochaz
MrBuddyLee (1) -- Yosarian2

Not voting: Nobody
15 alive, 8 to lynch