Mini 1088: Cookie Thief Mafia (Game Over)

[FakeGod]

Vote Count 2.7

"Christmas soon." -mod

drmyshottyizsik (4): Darox, Llamarble, Elleran, RobCapone
RobCapone (1): Furcolow
Furcolow (1): drmyshottyizsik
Darox (1): andrew94

Not Voting: Zed, don_johnson,, lewarcher82

With 10 players, it takes 6 votes to lynch someone.

[Zed]

There really isn't anything to comment on right now, when I have my break I have to reread the game to look for something I missed.

But I'm not going to vote for shotty, in case anyone missed it last night.

[Darox]

Darox, could you please list all the "irrefutable proofs" town failed to see?

The fact that faking an ability is not against any rules what so ever, and I can quote the entirety of the game rules AND site rules to prove that.
It was a joke making fun of how absurd Andrew's responses to my 'plan' were. If people flip the fuck out when they see an unconfirmed day ability, they have no one to blame but themselves.

I will not be lynched this game... it cant happen.

Why then why not save us the bother and kill yourself now so we can spend the rest of the day finding someone else to lynch?

[drmyshottyizsik]

unvote
vote darox

That last comment was SO SCUMMY!! I will not kill myself untill I am L-1 and some one is willing to hammer.

[Darox]

Uh huh.

Well, you keep weaselling and praying that nobody calls your bluff, and I'll keep voting you.

[Llamarble]

Zed said:
"You're town play is just scummy. You are very pro-town when you're scum. Therefore, I'm not looking to lynch you right now."
I'm sorry what? Shotty is scummy so we shouldn't lynch him? This makes the opposite of sense.
It's pretty much the most extreme example of relying on meta over game information that there is.
In this game, Shotty has done virtually no scumhunting.
Day 1 his only notable actions were claiming credit for pushing us out of the RVS and softclaiming.
Day 2 his only action has been fullclaiming and yelling at Darox, but not examining Darox's posting to see why he's scummy.
His role name is "Hungry Harold..." How much scummier do you get than that??
His claimed role makes sense, but that could easily be the result of a mod-given fakeclaim PM to balance multiple cop-type roles.
(and would even be reasonable for the mod to give out if there's no alignment cop)
I think he is our best lynch today.

If it turns out Shotty's actually not lying and he kills himself,
he should do so at least a couple (real life) days before deadline to allow a new consensus to form.
I think the player we should lynch if Shotty eats his own cookie is Darox.
His response to the early wagon against him was to try to laugh it off; he did not react indignantly as I would expect town to and look for scum on it.
He provided no analysis along the lines of "I believe X is scum because X took action Y" until the D1 lynch candidates were settled.
I have seen scum do this before; it seeks to avoid making waves by being primary driver of a wagon against town.
He has provided extremely minimal scumhunting (particularly compared to his postcount) in general.
One of his few attempts at scumhunting was this:
"Zed trying to dismiss the colours case outright for false reasons would make a good third."
Which is phrased as a player looking for lynches would see the situation rather than as a player looking for scum would.
He is acting bold for the sake of looking bold, which is a scumtell (his play focuses on his appearance as opposed to on hunting scum).
What he is NOT doing is scumhunting boldly, which is the town tell he's pretending to give off.
And while at it he's seeking to line up the lynches of several players,
not on a basis of their actions looking like scumplays but rather on the basis of actions that are poor play from either alignment (VI actions).
After we lynch Darox we'll have a 0% town quality improvement and a 33% scum (assuming 3) quantity decrease.

[Elleran]

@Llamarble: I agree with you about your first paragraph.

However, I disagree with your second. Darox didn't necessarily "laugh it off". He simply remained calm and didn't overreact. I see overreaction as a better scumtell than an under-reaction.

[Llamarble]

He said the wagon against him was "a joke" and self voted, fitting with the "ahahaha this is funny and I'm going to wait for it to go away" attitude I described.
Where is this "remaining calm" you describe?
Does anything that isn't turboflailing count as calm in your opinion?

[Llamarble]

Also the point you disputed is not one of my primary reasons for believing he is scum.
The most important reason is that he is _projecting_ a bold attitude rather than boldly scumhunting.
That he avoided scumhunting entirely for much of D1 and has done hardly any scumhunting overall is also more important.
Your post sounds like strawmanning (attacking a less important part of an argument and then saying the whole thing is moot)
in defense of a scumbuddy.

[Darox]

I think I'm going to do what I did on day 1, which was let your confirmation bias ruin your 'case' on me.

P.S. I didn't flip out and start hunting for scum on my wagon because I'm not retarded.

[Llamarble]

By which you mean you intend to ignore my legitimate reasons for believing you are scum and hope other players will too, just like yesterday!
Way to take a not even vaguely pro-town approach to defending yourself.
Darox is obvscum to a degree where I am starting to think we should lynch him despite the hard evidence against Shotty.
That said, Shotty is also likely scum and if he turns out to be town then his selfkill puts us on a path to mylo instead of lylo,
so he's our best option for now, but if he turns out to be town, WE LYNCH DAROX.

[Darox]

I am scum because I commit scummy actions.
I commit scummy actions because I am scum.

Real convincing. Why bother defending myself when you can do it for me?

[andrew94]

just lynch darox already

[lewarcher82]

Darox, in case you did not notice, you are not looking very bright. This is mafia, not "the narcissistic clown personal show". The next time you insult anyone, I will replace out.

Too bad I do not think you are scum.

Elleran is probably mafia, and he is trying to generate some confusion by defending a town VI (you).

I also don't trust Zed: she is playing it very safe, posting very little content.

This game needs someone to quit reasoning about flavour and start scumhunting. I will start.
1) Elleran 119: is KK right or wrong? Elleran contraddicts himself. Mild scumtell.
2) Elleran 124: "not a backtrack, I am just changing my mind"
3)E 175: "nope, my bad, I was wrong twice about shotty. I now think it may be andrew, Poison or Llama" (guess what? The 3 of them are already fosed by someone else). MIld scumtell.
4)E 199: "yeah, well, I criticised furco, but now I vote Poison" (EASY WAGON)
5)E 213: "Darox is lurking, but he is not scum".
6)E 284: "andrew shouldn't have claimed so early".
7)E 326: dislikes the case on Poison. But he votes her.
8)E 341: more doubts about andrew's claim
9)E 352: but Elleran trusts him. Ok, fair enough.
10)E 445: why would you want to go after furco and not after me? It was me who built the case. Is furco an easier target? Mild scumtell.
11)E 454-456: ok, consistent to 445. E votes a GC. But he says he believes andrew's claim, even though Darox, his best friend, does not.
12)E 457: bad! Knowing the every player is notified when investigated by GC helps scum. Asking is bad. Mild scumtell from Elleran AND from shotty. Never out this kind of info.
13)E 497: Elleran sez that shotty was scummy and darox was not! They were both lazy posters: what the hell is the difference? And why does Elleran believe andrew's claim, but not shotty's?
14)E 521: already commented on this. Attempt at intimidating furco with a question, the answer to which is already known to anyone.
15)E 566: failed attempt at answering my point. Basically, he admits he was pushing a VI.
16)E 608: after stating that shotty is scummy, it turns out Elleran has little more than the name HH to justify his vote. Strong scumtell.

Vote: Elleran

[Darox]

There are at least 3 other people who think shottys name plus his total lack of input is enough to justify their vote. Are all of these people committing "strong scumtells"? There is also a world of difference between my posts and shottys posts. Why do you think someone having differing opinions on the pair of us is wrong?

And tell you what. You don't make any mistakes by jumping to conclusions or using faulty logic, and I don't make fun of you for jumping to conclusions or using faulty logic. Simple, right?

[lewarcher82]

The people who vote shotty for his name said they vote him for his name. Elleran said he was scummy, and he was unable to justify this statement.

Moreover, he must tell me why he believes andrew's claim and not shotty's. Was andrew more active, or more pro-town than shotty? Same question regarding you, Darox. I don't see any strong pro-town action in your play so far. So he must explain me why out of 3 people who posted very little content, two of which made weird claims, he believes two and votes the third.

Your posts differ from shotty's posts only because yours are longer, but 90% of your content is clumsy self-celebration and ill-defined criticism. Did you ever start 1 case? Nope.

Stop using the word logic out of place. If the game could be won by logic only, with no inference, then the game would be implicitely won by one of the teams before it even starts. We need inferential, inductive and even abductive reasoning in order to get the game started (hint: look up abductive reasoning on wikipedia).

[RobCapone]

^ good point lewarcher

she also believes andrew's claim completely while others find his claim hard to believe.

[Furcolow]

Darox, in case you did not notice, you are not looking very bright. This is mafia, not "the narcissistic clown personal show". The next time you insult anyone, I will replace out.

Too bad I do not think you are scum.

Elleran is probably mafia, and he is trying to generate some confusion by defending a town VI (you).

I also don't trust Zed: she is playing it very safe, posting very little content.

This game needs someone to quit reasoning about flavour and start scumhunting. I will start.
1) Elleran 119: is KK right or wrong? Elleran contraddicts himself. Mild scumtell.
2) Elleran 124: "not a backtrack, I am just changing my mind"
3)E 175: "nope, my bad, I was wrong twice about shotty. I now think it may be andrew, Poison or Llama" (guess what? The 3 of them are already fosed by someone else). MIld scumtell.
4)E 199: "yeah, well, I criticised furco, but now I vote Poison" (EASY WAGON)
5)E 213: "Darox is lurking, but he is not scum".
6)E 284: "andrew shouldn't have claimed so early".
7)E 326: dislikes the case on Poison. But he votes her.
8)E 341: more doubts about andrew's claim
9)E 352: but Elleran trusts him. Ok, fair enough.
10)E 445: why would you want to go after furco and not after me? It was me who built the case. Is furco an easier target? Mild scumtell.
11)E 454-456: ok, consistent to 445. E votes a GC. But he says he believes andrew's claim, even though Darox, his best friend, does not.
12)E 457: bad! Knowing the every player is notified when investigated by GC helps scum. Asking is bad. Mild scumtell from Elleran AND from shotty. Never out this kind of info.
13)E 497: Elleran sez that shotty was scummy and darox was not! They were both lazy posters: what the hell is the difference? And why does Elleran believe andrew's claim, but not shotty's?
14)E 521: already commented on this. Attempt at intimidating furco with a question, the answer to which is already known to anyone.
15)E 566: failed attempt at answering my point. Basically, he admits he was pushing a VI.
16)E 608: after stating that shotty is scummy, it turns out Elleran has little more than the name HH to justify his vote. Strong scumtell.

Vote: Elleran

pretty sure i already made a case on this guy
why did you completely ignore it?

[Furcolow]

unvote;
vote: drshottyizsick

mafia have stepped up their game via distancing and playfighting in my opinion
i am going to go with an easy lynch on someone with a scummy sounding name

if he does not flip "hungry harold", i'm fairly certain we lynch rob
if i die in the night, i'm fairly certain we lynch rob


who does the town want to use our ability on?
we need to discuss this before anything
i vote darox

[Furcolow]

P.S. L-1

[Furcolow]

has anyone discussed this:
"Additional Rules

Cookie Thieves will try to steal cookies from the Basket Tree during the night, so beware!"

[lewarcher82]

Darox, in case you did not notice, you are not looking very bright. This is mafia, not "the narcissistic clown personal show". The next time you insult anyone, I will replace out.

Too bad I do not think you are scum.

Elleran is probably mafia, and he is trying to generate some confusion by defending a town VI (you).

I also don't trust Zed: she is playing it very safe, posting very little content.

This game needs someone to quit reasoning about flavour and start scumhunting. I will start.
1) Elleran 119: is KK right or wrong? Elleran contraddicts himself. Mild scumtell.
2) Elleran 124: "not a backtrack, I am just changing my mind"
3)E 175: "nope, my bad, I was wrong twice about shotty. I now think it may be andrew, Poison or Llama" (guess what? The 3 of them are already fosed by someone else). MIld scumtell.
4)E 199: "yeah, well, I criticised furco, but now I vote Poison" (EASY WAGON)
5)E 213: "Darox is lurking, but he is not scum".
6)E 284: "andrew shouldn't have claimed so early".
7)E 326: dislikes the case on Poison. But he votes her.
8)E 341: more doubts about andrew's claim
9)E 352: but Elleran trusts him. Ok, fair enough.
10)E 445: why would you want to go after furco and not after me? It was me who built the case. Is furco an easier target? Mild scumtell.
11)E 454-456: ok, consistent to 445. E votes a GC. But he says he believes andrew's claim, even though Darox, his best friend, does not.
12)E 457: bad! Knowing the every player is notified when investigated by GC helps scum. Asking is bad. Mild scumtell from Elleran AND from shotty. Never out this kind of info.
13)E 497: Elleran sez that shotty was scummy and darox was not! They were both lazy posters: what the hell is the difference? And why does Elleran believe andrew's claim, but not shotty's?
14)E 521: already commented on this. Attempt at intimidating furco with a question, the answer to which is already known to anyone.
15)E 566: failed attempt at answering my point. Basically, he admits he was pushing a VI.
16)E 608: after stating that shotty is scummy, it turns out Elleran has little more than the name HH to justify his vote. Strong scumtell.

Vote: Elleran

pretty sure i already made a case on this guy
why did you completely ignore it?

Could you please give the exact reference to the post that contains your case?

[drmyshottyizsik]

has anyone discussed this:
"Additional Rules

Cookie Thieves will try to steal cookies from the Basket Tree during the night, so beware!"

Yes I tried!!! That is why my name isn't scummy!

[drmyshottyizsik]

IF ONE OF YOU IS GOING TO HAMMER SAY YOU ARE GOING TO HAMMER DON'T REALLY DO IT, THAT WAY I CAN SAVE TOWN FROM A NK.

[Furcolow]

#76 in iso