Oldy Mafia (Game Over, who won?)

[DrippingGoofball]

The DGB protection would be via pushing the CDB crapwagon.

Wut???

The CDB wagon is an awesome wagon made up of scum-hating townies.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm five pages behind, on top of not having read up.

No hurry, we're just waiting for CDB to lay his head on his pillow, dream up a fakeclaim, and serve it to us wrapped in bacon tomorrow morning.

[Glork]

I like Gurgi's posting (and not just because he thinks I'm town).

I'm becoming less interested in a CDB lynch. It is more stagnant than the push against Shanba was. That said, he makes a reasonable vig/investigation target.

Unvote
Vote: Yosarian2

[Yosarian2]

I really don't understand at all why you'd think I was scum here, Glork. I mean, fine, Ythill hasn't played with me before, he might think it's scummy for me to attack people aggressively, but I don't at all understand your vote here.

[Ythill]

inb4DGBrage

@Gurgi:

It doesn't say null anywhere in my role PM. My read on you and your inability to get one on me are unrelated. Just sayin.

Ythill hasn't played with me before

Orly? Geezer Mafia.

The aggressiveness of your attacks is not the problem. The way they weren't following your vote is. And the way you were avoiding wagons. And changed that behavior when called out on it. And etcetera. We've been over this stuff before.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm becoming less interested in a CDB lynch.

NoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOoOoOOoOoooO

That's just what the evil ones want.

WHERE IS CDB's claim?????????????????

Is the fakeclaim machine jammed?

[DrippingGoofball]

Hi guys, I just got back from V/LA. I've been travelling for two straight days and am completely shattered (off to bed as soon as I've posted this message everywhere), but

I'll be catching up tomorrow

.

He's catching up

today

.

TODAY

<blink>
Don't give me that stagnation bizniss, Glorkster. You say we should waste an investigation him????

WUT

!!! HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND??? Waste an investigation on a useless lurker??? Why not a

VIG SHOT

?????????????????? An

investigation

???????? Instead of a vig shot??????? Are you drunk? High? Passed out? Are you hoping some idiot player is going to investigate CDB who has contributed nothing while maybe I also vig him???????????? Are you CDB's buddy???
</blink>

If CDB fails to show up with the necessary fakeclaim, he'll be considered "given up scum" and will be lynched without further ceremony or gnashing of teeth. If you're sentimental, look away.

-OR-

If for some reason we're not lynching CDB...

We're lynching

Glork

.

ONE OF THESE TWO IS SCUM. MAYBE BOTH. We lynch one, I vig the other.

[DrippingGoofball]

That said, he makes a reasonable vig/investigation target.

Reading is tehc.

[Glork]

I really don't understand at all why you'd think I was scum here, Glork. I mean, fine, Ythill hasn't played with me before, he might think it's scummy for me to attack people aggressively, but I don't at all understand your vote here.

I don't think I like any of your scumreads or any of the serious pushes you've made throughout the game so far. Chamber: not all that likely to be scum. Ecto: Town. MBL: Not all that likely to be scum.

Your stance on Mert is consistent with what I'd expect from middling scum (here and here, and is especially interesting given the timing of your sudden flip on inHim from "weird/confusing/scummy" to protown. Once Ecto claimed Doc, inHim was *the* top candidate, and YOU did the most to change momentum against {inHim/MBL} towards ANY other player you could find.


Comments like this (made towards Shanba):

You keep saying that "Ecto wasn't acting scummy", but one of the biggest scum tells I always look for is "who isn't really scumhunting", and that's especially true on day 1.

...make me wonder why you didn't push Shanba harder D1, too. You've been tip-toeing around people like Shanz and inHim enough to be able to say you've suspected them, but the focus of your attacks and votes has been on people I see as being pretty unlikely to be scum.


I really want to see what the heck you were thinking when you made this post right after a vote count that had one of your top 4 suspects leading the way at five votes. Your vote on Chamber

BEFORE

your iso on inHim indicates to me that you were looking for a reason to get people off of inHim and onto someone else.

The reasonable/logical thing for a protown playler to do would have been to put their vote on the player they suspected who was also the leading vote-getter, and THEN look at their play... not to park their vote uselessly on another player with no other votes.

So there. "Why I think you're scum" has nothing to do with you being aggressive or whatever. I actually had a bit on here about how I don't like your middle-away behavior regarding CDB (compared to middle-towards regarding Mert), but now that I think about it, that's tempered by the deadline.

What I

will

note, however, is that --

just like with inHim

-- you have managed to put Shanba among your top candidates, but couldn't be arsed to join his wagon when it actually could have been fruitful. Instead, you bounced between Chamber and MBL, once again failing to follow up on what the most reasonable protown play would have been. I'll even break this one down a little:
In 929, you call Shanba and Chamber scum, as Ether enters the game. Shanba only has two votes on him (one of which is Ether's placeholder), but you putting a third vote on would have been a PERFECT opportunity to apply pressure to someone you have just stated is scum.
Shanba picks up votes. CES, Chamber, and HackerHuck all vote for Shanba (putting him at 6), and Ether makes the reasonable unvote after a post by Shanzie (back at 5).
At this point,

Shanba is actively responding to the pressure on him

, and you pop in and make post 994 in which

you speak directly with Shanba

, and yet instead of "attacking him aggressively," you play softball. You jump into "Let me justify my stance against Ecto" mode, and don't even bother to mention that YOU JUST CALLED HIM SCUM LESS THAN TWO PAGES AGO, or that HE IS A VERY VIABLE WAGON, or

ANYTHING

about why you suspect him.

It. Doesn't. Make. Any. Sense.

Unless you're distancing, that is.



One of {Yos/Shanba} needs to be lynched today. The other needs to be vigged. There is no in-between, and I probably won't be moving my vote off of these two players.

Make it happen, peeps.

[DrippingGoofball]

CDB is NOT a worthy investigation target. What a waste that would be. It's not like the cop is going to out himself to save UT/CDB from the gallows, he's contributed zilch.

Suggesting that he be investigated, gives

YOU

a shot at NOT being investigated.

I want CDB lynched, not vig'ed. Day is for killing scums, and we got a live one.

[DrippingGoofball]

One of {Yos/Shanba} needs to be lynched today. The other needs to be vigged. There is no in-between, and I probably won't be moving my vote off of these two players.

Make it happen, peeps.

NO, no, no and no.

We are not letting CDB off the hook for his fakeclaim.

[Glork]

Hi guys, I just got back from V/LA. I've been travelling for two straight days and am completely shattered (off to bed as soon as I've posted this message everywhere), but

I'll be catching up tomorrow

.

He's catching up

today

.

TODAY

<blink>
Don't give me that stagnation bizniss, Glorkster. You say we should waste an investigation him????

WUT

!!! HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND??? Waste an investigation on a useless lurker??? Why not a

VIG SHOT

?????????????????? An

investigation

???????? Instead of a vig shot??????? Are you drunk? High? Passed out? Are you hoping some idiot player is going to investigate CDB who has contributed nothing while maybe I also vig him???????????? Are you CDB's buddy???
</blink>

If CDB fails to show up with the necessary fakeclaim, he'll be considered "given up scum" and will be lynched without further ceremony or gnashing of teeth. If you're sentimental, look away.

-OR-

If for some reason we're not lynching CDB...

We're lynching

Glork

.

ONE OF THESE TWO IS SCUM. MAYBE BOTH. We lynch one, I vig the other.

X

CDB is unlikely to claim, because the material against him isn't all that significant, TBH. It's essentially "UT was meh, and then flaked, and CDB hasn't done anything." Which, if he has been on V/LA like he said, is a non-case. If CDB shows up and provides the analysis that people are demanding of him, I don't see any reason to continue to pursue a lynch. You're more than welcome to tie me with CDB for this, but it's not a very good wagon when it comes right down to it, and his failure to claim isn't as telling as you want it to be (ESPECIALLY if he's non-vanilla protown).

[DrippingGoofball]

He needs to claim, because he's a bandwagon-happy lurker.

And he's stalling a claim.

He's scum, there he dies.

[DrippingGoofball]

EBWOP

"therefore he dies."

[DrippingGoofball]

Hey Glork

Pick ONE.

Yos, or Shanba.

[inHimshallibe]

[Glork]

Hey Glork

Pick ONE.

Yos, or Shanba.

Hey DGB.

No.

They're both scum, so why does it matter?

[Glork]

DGB, what do you think of Yos's alignment?

[Glork]

mafia = cdb, yos, inhim, shanba
sk = Ythill

Aside from the SK thing, Chamber might be a goddamned motherfucking genius.


I *might* be willing to go back to CDB. It really depends on what he does when he finally gets around to posting.

[chamber]

I assure you, if all 4/5 of those names are correct, its little more than a fluke. I'm not

that

good.

Where the hell is CDB?

[Patrick]

Votecount

Yosarian2 (4) -- Shanba, MrBuddyLee, Ythill, Glork
inHimshallibe (2) -- ChannelDelibird, Lord Gurgi
ChannelDelibird (5) -- chamber, Cogito Ergo Sum, Ether, DrippingGoofball, CrashTextDummie
Shanba (1) -- HackerHuck
Lord Gurgi (1) -- inHimshallibe
Ythill (1) -- Porochaz
MrBuddyLee (1) -- Yosarian2

Not voting: Nobody
15 alive, 8 to lynch

[MrBuddyLee]

Is the fakeclaim machine jammed?

[HackerHuck]

Flameaxe/Porochaz:

Dear inHimshallibe,

I happen to quite like both my CES scumpoints and my Tripod vote. Would you please be so kind as to elaborate on why you find them disagreeable.

Kind regards,
CTD

How is my shameless bandwagonning different from anyone else's? My "deliberation" was, surprise surprise, just a joke. Fr rls, yo. Your vote is ridiculous (moreso than mine!).

Agreeing with CTD here, your vote didn't feel like shameless bandwagoning to me. The fact that you're torn between two players doesn't exactly shout out joke vote.

Vote: Untrod

. Best place for my vote so far. Not really seeing this CTD wagon.

Here's the vote on Tripod. It actually looks like a little buddying with CTD here. It also looks like InHim brought that up too.
From his post 317, this is the list of people who are scummy.
CES - Leaning slightly scum
Untrod Tripod/CDB - Still feeling scum
Hacker Huck - Leaning slightly scum

Hi guys. Ive read the thread and everything. Think

vote ythill

, his actions yesterday started well, but as soon as people started agreeing with him, he got weird.

He replaces into the game and for his first vote, 'got weird' is his reasoning?

Other news, I havent seen the reason to vote CDB beyond a lurker vote. Ill reread him but as I dont see the point now, I think this will be a wagon Ill miss.

Only mention of CDB is here.



Untrod/CDB:
This post from UT would have made me think that he's not a buddy with Flameaxe, but he ignores Flameaxe even after Flameaxe keeps harping on this point.

Agreeing with CTD here, your vote didn't feel like shameless bandwagoning to me. The fact that you're torn between two players doesn't exactly shout out joke vote.

ITT: we learn to put "/sarcasm" after every early-game joke vote, because otherwise people will pretend REALLY REALLY SUPER HARD that you weren't joking when you obviously were.

I don't really get much out of CDB. He pretty much ignores the Flameaxe slot in his initial post and there's no mention of him afterward.

Flameaxe, Glork, CES, Fritzler, chamber

Rereading these guys, but didn't get much from any of them first time through and would like to hear more from all of them.

I see a possibility that Flameaxe was bussing Untrod early on, but it's probably not something I would pick up on unless I was looking for it like I was here.



On the other hand, it did make me wonder what was going on with the UT (and now CDB) wagons. I didn't really see a whole lot of scummy behaviour out of either of them - especially UT. I saw his post as being a sort of jokey random vote. I don't have a big problem with the wagon since it was a day one runup that often happens, but I'm not sure why it's still got legs. If it's just the scumputer, I'll pass, because I'm not sold on its effectiveness this early in the game.

I'll work up the DGB/CTD pairing next.

[HackerHuck]

IH/DGB:
IH was the one that voted for CTD and it was part of a quick wagon that oddly enough gained momentum after UT voted for him. If you start on page 3, you'll see the quick progression. I'm not sure that this really builds any town cred, so I'm don't see that it makes sense to bus here.

Hello, new people! And to think I was just about to open betting on whether IH would get replaced before D1 is over...

DGB:
How much of a coincidence is it that your scumlist is almost identical to mine? And why does part of it disagree with Theorem 1?

This post pretty much clears my mind of any thoughts that these two were bussing, so I'm not going to waste everyone's time posting all of the other stuff I put together. Time to bark up another tree.


Based on my last post, I'd consider moving to Porochaz, but I'm happier with my vote on Shanba. I'm not in favor of the CDB wagon, since it just looks like a lurker-lynch at this point.

[Shanba]

So my ferry journey was extremely profitable after all! Unusual, really, as normally these big grand ideas I have about using a break to make headway in a mafia game don't come to anything. But this time, indeed it did! And what gorgeous analysis I have for you all.

Firstly, the headlines: Inhim is not scum, in fact he's totally 100% town. Glork is null leaning town. Flameaxe is scummyish. Ythill is pretty scummy. Yos is still ridic scummy. Hackerhuck is scummy. All the rest are various degrees of null-town, mostly town.

Firstly, Glork. I still think his day 1 play was lazy and lurky, and I'm amazed no one really called him out on it (possible town blind spot I guess, but meh). However, the contributions that he did make are fairly reasonable, and today his play has been pretty townish. He hedged his bets on the ecto wagon a bit: he keeps going back and forth on things like MBL's questioning of ecto, whether ecto is scum with mbl, whether they're scum in different factions, whether ecto is actually scummy. I'm feeling the doubt, and it's giving me pro-town feelings. Then there's the thing with Ether that I already pointed out. Also, I think his reaction to me (loathe as I am to admit it) is probably indicative of pro-town Glork. Still, I dislike his play day 1 overall. I'm definitely not up for lynching him today - pretty sure the more he posts, the better the read I'm getting on him. So I like keeping him alive overall - not that he's in any danger of being lynched, but if there was a glork wagon at some point later today, which probably isn't impossible, I won't be on it.

Ythill is my big read. I have so much stuff on ythill. Where to start. Ythill is giving me conflicting vibes, but with enough doses of SCUM in the pot for me to have him comfortably second behind Yos. I wanna note here that I don't really care

that

he's vote-hopping like an adhd frog, but nevertheless some of the times he has chosen to vote hop and some of the choices of vote he has switched to have bugged me. Let's start at the beginning:

he begins with a pretty shitty attack on chamber, which he quickly has to back away from. It's day 1, whatever. Then he follows it up with a meh attack on ecto followed by a terrible attack on me (scumslip? SRSLY?) I dislike this pattern of bad attacks. One or two misfires might be indicative of "not quite paying attention" or "thinks differently about mafia to me". But all of them? He'd have to be an incompetent townie. He doesn't strike me as incompetent. But that's only the start.

Next, there's his incredibly manipulative exchange with chamber where he is trying to force chamber into an avatar bet. Quite apart from him finding chamber scummy after this (which I think is in and of itself ridiculous), there's the fact that it's essentially a "money where your mouth is" move. He's asking chamber to put up or shut up - an attitude which I don't think a townie should ever be taking, because it indicated first and foremost the desire to survive. He's not trying to draw anything useful out of chamber, he's just looking for an opportunity to attack and to twist the optics of the situation so that chamber will look scummy. It's terrible play if Ythill is town. (Also, he totally ignores the fact that chamber later states he has moral qualms about such bets - something which ought to be obvious if you think it through a bit. Betting is bringing outside influences into the game. I mean, imagine the situation: "A:I bet you're scum. B:I'm not A:Well then I bet you twenty bucks. Deal? If B is scum, there's no correct response to this, unless he's gonna stiff the guy twenty bucks at the end of the game. Again, outside influences. Stated in the overarching site rules.)

Then there's some of those vote switches: notably, his vote switch to Yos. I want to link this back to the Mertwagon at the end of day 1: There, he posts a nice big case against Mert, in particular pointing out that his big catchup post (303) is "The scummiest post in this game." So you're Ythill a few pages after Mert has just posted this case. You believe that vote mobility is good for the town. You decide to go after someone who your read on is "I penciled him in at null and I'm waiting to see what happens." or the guy who just posted the scummiest post in the game? In brief,

why does he not go after Mert until the deadline wagon

? Yeah, he later rereads and says "OK MERT IS SCUM WITH FRITZ AND YOS IS MIDTABLE" which leads to a "CONFIRMVOTE: YOS" post. Shit doesn't add up. Did he just completely blank on Mert's post the first time around? How can you miss the "scummiest post in the game"? And how can you not vote for that guy when you see it? Oh also on the subject, he essentially votes Yos and then explains three posts later that he's voting Yos for pressure, which is pretty silly. Probably not all that scummy though.

The one caveat I have on Ythill is that he's doing rather more work than I expect of a scum. Generally, I'd expect scum to make maybe one or two big catchup posts a game, and maybe one or two big cases a game, and other than that just cruiiise. For him to be both paying attention and frequently doing big case posts and big reread posts is rather surprising, if he's scum. (In particular, he's made a case on Mert, a votecount analysis, a reread analysis, a case on chamber, and generally other lots of little things). Weight of contribution isn't a huge towntell, but it is nevertheless a towntell in my book. Lazy scum could get away with less.

Yos is still scum (SHOCKHORROR). I have more tidbits though, in particular, this little diamond: "When someone's not contributing, there's just not that much you can say about them. That doesn't mean you don't lynch them; in fact, you lynch them twice as fast." BULL.BULL BULL BULL. This is like so key. See, you don't just give up on someone cause they stop posting. YOU SCREAM AND SHOUT TO THE RAFTERS ABOUT HOW LITTLE THEY'RE POSTING. This is fundamental. I really think this is post-hoc rationalisation by Yos.

Will finish this post after dinner. Enjoy!