Mini 1088: Cookie Thief Mafia (Game Over)

[FakeGod]

Vote Count 2.10

"

Christmas Eve.

Merry Christmas." -mod

drmyshottyizsik (2): Darox, Llamarble
Darox (2): andrew94, drmyshottyizsik
Elleran (2): lewarcher82, don_johnson
lewarcher82 (2): Furcolow, RobCapone

Not Voting: Zed, Elleran

With 10 players, it takes 6 votes to lynch someone.

Don't forget that the deadline is Dec. 30th, 2010!

[Elleran]

1) this is an acceptable justification. Contradict was not the right word. What I see, all over your game, is a tendency to politely agree with every attack moved to you, in order to gently backtrack from the position you previously took.
2) and 3) the difference between changing mind and backtracking depends on the weight of the "reasons" one provides.
4) your case on Ivy was based on the hypothesis that her asking 2 other players to be more active meant that she was actually asking her scum partners to help her. This looks like a joke, not like a case, to me.
5) still lurking is all you have against shotty except his name.
6) and 7) ok. And what is your reading of Llama now?
8) ok, you are totally right on this point. I now realise I misrepped your question.
10) and what is your idea about the GC right now?
11) Nope, I do not. My real problem is how you justified your total trust in Darox and Andrew and your FoS on shotty, since you were not able to provide a real case on him, although you said he was scummy.
12) meh
13) still, do you realise how terribly hard it is to put a player with 3 lives in a balanced setup?
14) and 15) Don't dodge. I explained my problem with this, and you even stated you saw what I meant.
16) I read your 648, evidently. But you said lurking is no scumtell, didn't you? Btw, the description you give of shotty could be applied to darox as well.

1) I agree with what I believe has merit. I disagree with what I believe is wrong. You can iso-me. I have disagreed often as well.
2, 3) Stop with this "I'm changing my mind" thing. I told you that I think Shotty is town.
4) Regard it as however you want to. It was a mislynch and thus whatever cases we had were wrong.
5) Again, I believe Shotty's claim.
6, 7) I'll talk about this later.
10) I believe that the GC exists. I also believe Furcolow's claim that one of them is a scum.
11) To tell you the truth, I had missed Shotty's full-claim until little later. >.< And no, I do not have complete trust on Darox and Andrew. I don't see where you get this.
13) If you weigh in the imba-factor, then maybe it's more incredible. The name and its associated ability made sense to me.
14, 15) I'm not dodging. I answered your point.
16) Wow, I just iso-ed Darox to see how substantial he was so that I could quote some evidence... To see that I couldn't find any good posts. But still, I can't feel a scummy vibe coming off of him. Do you have a gut feeling telling you that he's a scum? Even if you think your evidences point to scumminess, I don't feel him to be a scum.

^ why is this player still alive? When attacked he just backtracks. This, and everything I posted above. More votes on Elleran plz.


P.S. I said I don't think Darox is scum. You defending him

can

also be explained a different way: scum often defend VI's to get town credit.

Your case has absolutely no basis on reality. Your case against me is a series of speculations. Stop pushing for my lynch and do something more useful.

You speculate my actions as scummy. However, my actions can be interpreted as town actions as well. Just because an action

could

have scummy implications doesn't mean it does. My unvote was an action that could have been taken either directions. Unvoting does not make me scummy. You are making one-sided speculations.

You also claim that my votes and cases have been against those who are seen as 'easy lynches'. I terribly disagree.

You are then saying that after someone is seen as a such target, any and all new cases against the person is suddenly seen as scummy. I suggest you broaden your outlooks and consider other town-motivations.

For the player who led the Poison Town Lynch, you seem to talk like you are still in control. Listen to others and consider more possibilities before trying to lead another bad lynch.

your actions

can

be interpreted as town actions?
that is a weird way to put it, elleran
why did you phrase it that way?
does that imply they can be viewed as scummy actions?

i viewed your unvote as scum trying to deter a wagon on a scumbuddy, and i have suspicions you play on teamliquid, where that is a prevalent strategy

i've got my eye on you

No, I don't play on TeamLiquid.

Yes, my actions can be interpreted as town actions, just like it can be interpreted as a scummy action. You misinterpreted my statement saying this, lol. I said this to tell lewarcher that he was viewing my actions as 'scum actions' when they could equally be interpreted as 'town actions.' I was basically saying that his views were influenced by bias thinking.

My unvotes are used not because the votes seem to be becoming a wagon, but because I no longer believe the person to be a scum.

[Furcolow]

@mod

rob changed his vote

Fixed. Thank you. -mod

[Furcolow]

Elleran, regardless, that is NOT null
it is leaning scummy imo

[Llamarble]

10) I believe that the GC exists. I also believe Furcolow's claim that one of them is a scum.

16) Wow, I just iso-ed Darox to see how substantial he was so that I could quote some evidence... To see that I couldn't find any good posts. But still, I can't feel a scummy vibe coming off of him. Do you have a gut feeling telling you that he's a scum? Even if you think your evidences point to scumminess, I don't feel him to be a scum.

If you believe 10 you believe they are 50/50 lynches and so if you are town you should be pushing to lynch one of them.
Why aren't you?
Mislynching a GC, by Bayes rule, makes it more likely none of them are scum.
It also makes the remaining GCs individually more likely to be scum if there is a scum GC, so being a GC remains null for me.
I disagree scum would autokill a GC if both are town slnce with 2 it is likely they will deadlock.

16 highlights why Daroxscum is dung-flinging. Acting antagonistic tends to give people gut town reads.
Darox is manipulating his image and the emotions of other players to look town instead of scumhunting,
so that players like Elleran make statements roughly equivalent to
"He is playing to the scum win condition, but for some reason I think he is town."
I will be very surprised if Darox flips town, so in that sense I do have a gut scumread on him.

Mod, could you include the deadline in future votecounts?
Also one way to get counts at the top of the page regardless of who posts first
is to just edit them into the end of the first post on each page.

I do include the deadline when we're getting near it, but yes I can.
And yes, I've seen the VC done via editing them into the first post, but when I was a player, I liked the fact that I could pull up a mod ISO and get the list of all the VCs, something you can't do if VC was done via editing 1st posts. -mod

[Elleran]

@Llamarble:

I am not pushing because I don't know how to. To me, the only evidence I have is the evidence that Furcolow provided--that there is a scum in the midst of the GC. Because I don't know the truthfulness of this evidence, I do not want to use it. I would prefer that one of the GC members be lynched today.

Also, Furcolow should be the one pushing for Rob lynch right now. He is the one who provided the evidence, yet he does not follow through with it. This is the point that I was pushing earlier in the day. How true is the evidence that Furcolow provided in your opinion, Llamarble?

[Llamarble]

Do you mean this?
"there is no way that neither of us would have been hit unless one of us is scum"
If both are town the scum might leave them alone in hopes they deadlock,
making them unusually suspicious VTs who think each other are scum.
If one is town and one scum the scum could be trying to help their buddy hide.
As I've said I think being a GC is pretty much null.

Also this
"Because I don't know the truthfulness of this evidence, I do not want to use it. I would prefer that one of the GC members be lynched today."
Is a blatant contradiction. You don't want to use the evidence that a GC is scum, but you want to lynch a GC?

And what do you mean you don't know how to push a wagon?
I suggest voting and presenting clear reasoning.

The mod ISO thing makes sense.

[Elleran]

Do you mean this?
"there is no way that neither of us would have been hit unless one of us is scum"
If both are town the scum might leave them alone in hopes they deadlock,
making them unusually suspicious VTs who think each other are scum.
If one is town and one scum the scum could be trying to help their buddy hide.
As I've said I think being a GC is pretty much null.

Also this
"Because I don't know the truthfulness of this evidence, I do not want to use it. I would prefer that one of the GC members be lynched today."
Is a blatant contradiction. You don't want to use the evidence that a GC is scum, but you want to lynch a GC?

And what do you mean you don't know how to push a wagon?
I suggest voting and presenting clear reasoning.

The mod ISO thing makes sense.

To your first paragraph, I see your point.

To your second, you didn't interpret my meaning correctly. I

do

know how to push a wagon or make one. However, in this case, I don't have enough evidence to vote or to present a solid reasoning because I believe the evidence to be less than tangible. So no, I do not want to use the evidence that a GC is scum because it's like a source that can or cannot be true. However, I do believe a GC is a scum.

[lewarcher82]

10) I believe that the GC exists.

mmmh, well, course they exist, one of them died and flipped GC, so...

Do you have a gut feeling telling you that he's a scum?

nope, I said like 3 times that I think he is town.

Merry Christmas

[Elleran]

Do you have a gut feeling telling you that he's a scum?

nope, I said like 3 times that I think he is town.

Merry Christmas

Meh. Then what?

Merry Christmas.

[Furcolow]

also, considering i didn't "deadlock" rob, i will be the one doing the tracking of namefinding next.
who do you all as a town suggest I use our ability on?

[Furcolow]

p.s. if i die lynch rob

[lewarcher82]

Do you have a gut feeling telling you that he's a scum?

nope, I said like 3 times that I think he is town.

Merry Christmas

Meh. Then what?

Merry Christmas.

Then I think you may be scum defending a town VI to get towncred. And againt you make me repeat something I already wrote.

@Rob & everyone: we are in a very obscure setup, in which roles have no apparent connection to a specific alignment. It is the first time I find myself in such a situation, and I want to see what people think about roles being outed. We have already 4 claimed players out of 11, including our name-cops. Calling this question role-fishing is stupid. If everyone think the discussion would be detrimental to town, then I take notice of this communis opinio and we can move on.

@furco: you say that scum players are careful because they want to look pro-town. May I know how this can possibly apply to me? Do you ever check the coherence of your statements in your mind before posting them?

[lewarcher82]

^ EBWOP: 4 out of 10, not 11

[Elleran]

@Rob & everyone: we are in a very obscure setup, in which roles have no apparent connection to a specific alignment. It is the first time I find myself in such a situation, and I want to see what people think about roles being outed. We have already 4 claimed players out of 11, including our name-cops. Calling this question role-fishing is stupid. If everyone think the discussion would be detrimental to town, then I take notice of this communis opinio and we can move on.

To me, Role Names tend to be associated with the role's ability. Pretty was associated with the Girls Club. Hungry is associated with Suicidal power. Odd (hypothetically) is associated with the odd number of cookies above 1. Although the name itself may not necessarily give away which alignment the player belongs to, it does hint at the role which will give hints to which alignment the player belongs to. Saying that this is a very obscure setup is ignoring the aspect of the game in which names and alignment are associated without giving away "scum roleblocker" or "town doctor".

I am for role outing.

We have about 4 days before the deadline. We need to do something and come to a conclusion.

[lewarcher82]

the setup is obscure as long as even after a confirmed cop report we are stuck in an empasse and we are not in the situation in which we can say "fine, we lynch shotty, he is scum".

Thanks for answering, Elleran.

Please,

no one must start claiming just because we have a first "yes" to my question

. All we know now is that Elleran would agree with role outing; the other active players apparently answered no. I did not answer yet (as someone already noted as being scummy). This is the kind of information I am currently looking for.

mod: I am on V/LA for the next 2 days, meaning that I will be back two days before deadline, which, by the way, is dangerously close to new year's eve. I hereby ask for an extension.

How long of an extension do you guys think you will need? -mod

[drmyshottyizsik]

I will be limmitted highly for the next 4 days. so i am asking for an extension as well

[Elleran]

Another question: What kind of Role-Claim are we doing? Name claiming or role claiming?

[lewarcher82]

read my #740. We are not claiming, we are discussing the option.

[Furcolow]

I will not claim my name regardless
my adjective is nice, though

@warcher, that theory is not originating from my mind. i wish i could take credit for that!

[lewarcher82]

I will not claim my name regardless
my adjective is nice, though

@warcher, that theory is not originating from my mind. i wish i could take credit for that!

My question was different furco. It would really help if you read the posts before you answer.

mod: I have no idea... in the same situation, in another running game we got 4 extra days, till January the 4th... would it be asking too much?

Since it's the holiday season and all, I'll be generous and give you guys till January 7th.
New deadline is 1/7/2011. Happy holidays! -mod

[Furcolow]

I read EVERY word of EVERY post
perhaps YOU should decide to actually phrase things in a way that is understandable

[lewarcher82]

This was my question:

@furco: you say that scum players are careful because they want to look pro-town. May I know how this can possibly apply to me?

And this was your answer:

@warcher, that theory is not originating from my mind. i wish i could take credit for that!

[Furcolow]

find the quote, and what i was quoting, because you're talking about something from pages ago

[FakeGod]

bumppity bump