Mini 1088: Cookie Thief Mafia (Game Over)

[RobCapone]

At first I was against a name claim cause I thought it may somehow reveal power roles, if we decided to name claim I would not object to it

The biggest thing that irked me was you were talking about name claims and nobody else was, you brought it up a few more times. Seemed like you were getting pushy or something

Also the battle back and forth between you and elleran I was thinking one of you were probably scum, given the claim I beleive elleran so that doesn't help your case. I'll have to go back and read your iso to determine if your scum hunting looked real or not.

[RobCapone]

Yes I think furc is scum in the gc

[Llamarble]

Elleran responds:
"What is your reason for each person?

I personally disagree with andrew for sure. Like I said, I believe his claim."

IF YOU JUST COPPED DAROX AND GOT AN INNOCENT THEN WHY IS ANDREW THE ONE WHO IS TOWN FOR SURE?
DIE SCUM.

@Llamarble: I intentionally said nothing about Darox. I responded to the point about Andrew because that was something I believed.

In what way is it pro-town to intentionally say nothing about Darox,
thereby indicating you have a stronger townread on Andrew?
Answer: It's not pro town.
You treated Andrew as more town than Darox because you forgot or hadn't yet decided
that you were going to feign an innocent on Darox.
An actual cop would not fail to take their results into account the next day.

Later on you say you tried to breadcrumb a "Darox is town" result with the last words of 3 sentences.
Do you expect us not to see "I disagree with Andrew for sure" after an NK and think that was a cop result?
Certainly you couldn't have expected us to find the last words of sentences breadcrumb after an NK
and believe that more than this.
Therefore I don't believe you were actually trying to leave us information in case you were NKed.

And how do you explain your post saying you were "meh" on Darox?
Cop with an innocent has NO REASON to undermine the innocence of the player they inspected,
especially in a setup where it's unlikely to be an incorrect result.

And why would you be pro-massclaim with a role almost sure to get you NKed??

@Lewarcher
I have not played with Elleran before.
I believe he is scum for numerous reasons mentioned before his claim and because
his play in several instances is inconsistent with an innocent on Darox.

I believe Darox is scum too, but I overstated things when I said I was completely certain on Darox.
Elleran may be trying to cause a Darox mislynch after we lynch him.
That said I think it's likeliest they're both scum given Darox's willingness to believe/defend Elleran
and his prior lack of contribution / other scumtells.
Andrew's and Shotty's claims, while not blindingly town, I find more believable than Elleran's.

The simplest reason for scum to claim JOAT is what you just said, and what Rob said earlier;
If he had claimed alignment cop, he likely would not have been believed.
He avoids verification for a night regardless by claiming to have used a cop ability first,
and surviving one extra day is a great result for a scum who was going to be lynched.
JOAT is also less likely to run into counterclaims since a bit of overlap happens sometimes.

The first problem with checking Elleran is that it passes up lynching the most likely scum today.
The second problem with checking people is that we can't check both Shotty and Elleran
unless the one we check first is scum or we have a scum NK fail.
The reason is that we are at an even number now, so we want one extra death either of shotty
or by an Elleran vig to get us on the path to town-friendly lylo.
Also Elleran can just claim a scum PR messed with his action tomorrow in mylo/lylo.

I believe Elleran is clearly scum,
so we should lynch him today and have a better chance of hitting other scum tomorrow.
Giving scum an extra day of life because of a claim that contradicts their actions does not make sense.

[FakeGod]

Vote Count 2.15

"New Year very very soon." -mod

drmyshottyizsik (3): Darox, don_johnson, RobCapone
Darox (1): andrew94,
Elleran (1): Llamarble
RobCapone (2): Elleran, Furcolow
Furcolow (1): drmyshottyizsik

Not Voting: Zed, lewarcher82

With 10 players, it takes 6 votes to lynch someone.

The new deadline is Jan. 7th, 2011!

[Elleran]

Elleran responds:
"What is your reason for each person?

I personally disagree with andrew for sure. Like I said, I believe his claim."

IF YOU JUST COPPED DAROX AND GOT AN INNOCENT THEN WHY IS ANDREW THE ONE WHO IS TOWN FOR SURE?
DIE SCUM.

@Llamarble: I intentionally said nothing about Darox. I responded to the point about Andrew because that was something I believed.

In what way is it pro-town to intentionally say nothing about Darox,
thereby indicating you have a stronger townread on Andrew?
Answer: It's not pro town.
You treated Andrew as more town than Darox because you forgot or hadn't yet decided
that you were going to feign an innocent on Darox.
An actual cop would not fail to take their results into account the next day.

No, it IS pro-town. The reason why I would intentionally not say anything is to protect my identity. This also explains my 'meh' post. I knew Darox was town. SO WHAT? He wasn't playing productively nor was he getting himself any town-cred. It was such a bother to try to protect him because it not only attracted unnecessary attention to myself and him, but it detracted the town's attention away from scumhunting. By not directly saying "Darox is town", I tried to protect Darox without revealing my role.

Llamarble, if you don't believe me (and to all those who don't believe my claim), I can prove it. Another one of my ability allows me to investigate the role name of a player. If you are unsatisfied with my claim, allow me to live today. If I don't get NK'ed, I will come back tomorrow with a name investigation. This isn't a bad deal if you think about it. Even if I'm faking, I will be lynched tomorrow anyway. (and trust me, I'll be NK'ed tonight. ) If I get NK'ed then there won't be any "hey he didn't die" WIFOM junk and I'll have evidence to prove that I'm a JOAT. Basically, if you get off my back for today, I can only be killed or come back with a confirmed claim.

What say you?

[Elleran]

EBWOP: and unlike an alignment investigation, I can't just say "this person is scum." The player can confirm that my name-cop is true. I suppose if I was scum, I could fake name-cop one of my scum buddies and have them confirm that I am real. However, if I investigated a person who doesn't believe me right now (for example... say you, Llamarble), and I told you the first letters of your adjective and your name, you would have to believe me.

[Darox]

Here's the thing guys if we get to dead line and I'm L-1 I will suicide, and then the day will still be at dead line!

Oh boy look at this pro town agenda!

Let's lynch him now.

[andrew94]

read

unvote

name all ur 1 shot abilites elleran


theres still a week to the deadline, so shotty sucide la

[Elleran]

read

unvote

name all ur 1 shot abilites elleran

No. I believe revealing all my abilities may be bad for town. Unless the rest of the town sees that it is beneficial, I refuse to reveal my last ability

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote elleran

Can't post much from phone but u r so full of shit it ain't funny. I'll tear u up once I fix my home computer.

[Darox]

Oh hey this entire game is filled with Flighty Broads.

It's like a bunny exhibit with all these hops.

[Elleran]

unvote, vote elleran

Can't post much from phone but u r so full of shit it ain't funny. I'll tear u up once I fix my home computer.

Wow. Okay. Try it.

When I was addressing Llamarble about my proposal that involved waiting to see my results tomorrow, it was also addressed to you too, Don. Did you read that?

[andrew94]

what?
you said u have a

1 shot cop
and a 1 shot tihng that i didnt understand (explain this one)

and u said you have 'one more ability'
at the same time you dont want to let scum know your ability.
you just let every1 know u have only 1 more ability unknown

[Darox]

Can you please try to not act so goddamn stupid?

It's seriously not hard to do.

[Llamarble]

Checking Elleran by having him compare a namecop on me to my name wouldn't be reliable.
First of all the scum can NK me and Elleran can say "oops, I'll have to try something else."
Elleran could also just lie about my name and try to get me lynched instead of him, potentially in lylo.
Alternatively he or a scumbuddy could easily be a scum namecop and simply get my name right.
And regardless he lives an extra day.
If he's a scum PR, that's an extra scum night action.
If he's any kind of scum, that's a day we miss out on examining the links to him.
I think he's scum, so I want to lynch him today.

Key points of Elleran case:
Willing to pursue GC lynch based on "evidence" Furcolow never actually provided.
Wants to eliminate reasonable players.
Drove Ivy lynch
Waffled on Furcolow
Claimed a strong PR. (scum tend to claim PRs, so this makes it significantly more likely he is scum)
Was in favor of a massclaim despite claiming an important very likely to die PR.
Claims an innocent on Darox, who seems scummy.
Claims he expected us to clear Darox in the event of him being NKed by reading the last words of 3 lines of a post.
Said he thought Andrew was "town for sure" with minimal reasoning in response to a post asking about both Andrew and Darox.
Made a statement that he was getting close to neutral on Darox.

His explanation for putting other players as clearer townreads than Darox is that he was trying to avoid attention.
I simply don't buy that. Putting myself in the shoes of a player with a town result on Darox, I don't think
"I want to avoid attention on me and Darox by saying I find Andrew town instead."
I think
"I want to keep heat off Darox and claim if necessary to keep us from mislynching him."
So when presented with a suspect list including Andrew and Darox I might say
"I don't really think Andrew or Darox are scum."
The big difference being that I don't imply somebody else is a bigger townread than my town investigation,
as that is lying and grounds for lynch. Same goes for saying Darox is leaning meh if you have a town result on him.
You claim you lied about the relative strength of your town reads to avoid attention.
That alone is enough to convince me you're scum.

[andrew94]

vote elleran

[Darox]

How's that thick headed rigid code of laws working out for you Llamarble?

[Furcolow]

I didn't want to clarify the setup for the scum,
but since we have something like a roleblocker and possibly a multilife townie,
it is unlikely that we have a doctor (there are already enough NK preventing roles).
That means a mass roleclaim will just help the scum kill off our best PRs one by one.

@Furcolow: where are you saying I misrepresented your statement?
Do you mean that refusal to lie thing?
If I ask you point blank at the beginning of the game "are you scum this game, yes or no?"
and everyone agrees to lynch you if you don't answer,
how would you respond as scum and how as town?
How can you ever say "I think X is scum" without lying, if you're scum?
My point is that saying you never lie while playing scum is utterly absurd,
and I don't believe anyone could actually think that.

As town I would tell you I am not scum
as scum I would ask you something like "Would margaret thatcher want me to be scum?" and refuse to directly answer.

I would sort of skirt the truth, but not directly lie.

so because girls club can investigate and find role names, we're just going to assume that no other investigative role exists?

Nope. We're going on the basis that the entire girls club claimed they show up as "Girls Club" for alignment rather than scouts or cookie thieves.

ok. please direct me to where this was clarified.

DUDE LEARN TO READ......................................
I hate playing with you
seriously, READ.

unvote
now claim

Why did you unvote here?

I'm Extraordinary Eli. I'm a Town Jack of All Trades.

So you are the Keanu Reeves character... good... we need one of those since I'm town... or else it won't be balanced

Really, though, doctor on this guy in case he is town.

Stop Shotty.

Darox is Town

.

DAROX IS TOWN?
HOW U KNOW?
I seriously expect an explanation for how you can say it so 100%-like


OH
YOU INVESTIGATED HIM
NICE
CONFIRMED TOWN
WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY, DAROX?

Oh hey it's dr realizing the wagon might swing back onto him, so he's wildly flailing about trying to lure it somewhere else before his bluff is called.

HOW ABOUT THAT, HUH?

LOL HE CALLED U OUT
NICE JOB, GUYS!

i even went back and added a comma to be cool!
hi-five!

unvote;
vote: shotty

Back from V/LA.

Happy Birthday Darox.

A lot of shit has happened; I skimmed through the thread and I will now read with more attention, but in order to better understand the events, I need to ask one question to Elleran.
@Elleran: I assume that you, like the majority of JOATs, have 1 shot at several different powers. Since you joined the wagon on Ivy, one would assume you would realise that using your investigative power on either Rob or Furco would have been EXTREMELY productive for town. If we knew that either Rob or furc are town, we could use a ML on the other one, and - if protecting is one of your skills - you could protect the GC still alive in order to guarantee us one or two CONFIRMED name-investigations. Why did you pick Darox instead?

for now, even if DJ is right that the claim of Elleran must be discussed in detail before we call it genuine, I prefere to

Unvote

.

Yet again, learn to read
when investigated Rob wouldn't be "MAFIA", he would be "GIRL'S CLUB"
ignore llamarble's bayes rule bullshit and lynch rob imo

Yes I think furc is scum in the gc

Where is your case?
YOU CANT HAVE ONE
YOU WANNA KNOW WHY?
BECAUSE IM TOWN!

[Darox]

I think it makes me about 30% more awesome than I already am.

I'm not too bothered about it. It might make Llamarble stop being stupid and get out of his tunnel, but he's shown he's pretty resilient to changing his mind.

[Furcolow]

darox
top 3 scum top 3 town go
(while i go to bed!)

[RobCapone]

Furc all caps doesn't mean you are telling the truth

You have tried to tear apart the GC from the inside
I have already pointed out you asked to get us to work together and we start talking and you clam up
Night 1 I tried to discuss options of who to target and you didn't even throw out a single name, seems you are protecting your buddies
You try to vote just about everyone todY just to he a wagon going
You even accuse elleran and vote him, later you are siding with him
You try and attack people voting for shotty and Andrew as targeting VIs despite their anti-town playstyle

The 3 of you have sketchy claims, I don't beleive any of them, yours especially

Shotty acts like he knows for a fact mafia names aren't hungry type names but nobody else could possibly know that yet, It did pop in my mind that maybe hungry could be a SK but until we get 2 deaf people, I'll leave SK speculation out of it

You act like your play has been awesome but you haven't done shit

Also you attack ivy for GF speculation but than you start in on it like it's okay for some reason.

You also said that if ivy was not scum you would offer yourself up to be lynched, yet you haven't.

You chime in trying to throw me under the bus for not allowing you to have full control of the night action, and if you didn't trust me why did you tell the mod you wanted me to perform the action?

You are full of shit furc

unvote, vote furc

I am town if one in GC is scum it is you

[lewarcher82]

furco, I know you guys claimed some kind of investigation-immunity, but:
1) it was not 100% clear if it was referred to name-investigation OR to alignment-investigation;
2) as I f***ing already wrote, I wanted to see Elleran's answer.

(WHAT A PAIN <----- like my caps?)

@Llamarble: I do not see any point in Elleran's play that conflicts with a confirmed-town report on Darox.

@DJ: you keep promising content that didn't come, yet. I am waiting for your new case on Elleran.

@Darox: ok man, I already said I thought you were town, and now I am leaning towards believing Elleran's claim - even though you don't trust him. The two main differences between my reading and your reading regard Elleran and Shotty. Convince me about Shotty. And tell me what is your reading of DJ, because he is the one player you almost had no interaction with.

[Darox]

darox
top 3 scum top 3 town go
(while i go to bed!)

Top 3 scum
1: Drican'tbelievei'mtypingoutthisfuckingterriblenameyetagain
2: Don't know
3: Don't care
Top 3 Town
1: Myself
2: DJ Scully
3: Mr. Foster

unvote, vote furc

Goddamn do you get itchy if your vote is left on one person for more than an hour or something? The reasons why we should lynch shotty BEFORE ANYONE ELSE, REGARDLESS OF RESPECTIVE PERCEIVED SCUM LEVELS are still present.

@Darox: ok man, I already said I thought you were town, and now I am leaning towards believing Elleran's claim - even though you don't trust him. The two main differences between my reading and your reading regard Elleran and Shotty. Convince me about Shotty. And tell me what is your reading of DJ, because he is the one player you almost had no interaction with.

When did I say that I do or do not trust Elleran?
Shotty is without a doubt the best lynch today, because A: If he's lying about his role, it's a 100% scum/third party lynch, and B: If he's not, he suicides and then WE STILL HAVE A LYNCH FOR SOMEONE ELSE.
DJ is a guy who doesn't read and doesn't speak up much. I don't really like him.

[RobCapone]

To me I'm fine with shotty but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen and furc is acting like he is confirmed town, which he isn't

As long as idiots vote for elleran we aren't going to get a lynch with anyone

[RobCapone]

unvote, vote shotty

He is scum, so is furc, 3rd is probably don but idk