Mini 1088: Cookie Thief Mafia (Game Over)

[RobCapone]

I don't like speculation unless we have something tangible

One game I was in scum speculated on cult and everyone got distracted and scum won

Let's stick to the facts, your claim is unbelievable

[andrew94]

hey, where did you once say that my claim is unbelieveable.
same with zed.

[RobCapone]

Lol talk about a mixed bag, as I think furc is scum, we need 1 night with all 3 neighbors

unvote, vote: Andrew

I totally beleive he outer his info about his role to earn town cred, cept he had nothing backing him up

A single entity that gets a no result when investigated sounds fishy to me

December 6th

[Zed]

lady zed, with your logic, scum will never be lynched. OK

No, because you can be scum. Information can be taken from the NK to catch scum. People's reactions about lynching you can be used to catch scum. So, maybe my logic might work a little slow, but it still works.

also, u never expressed doubt on my claim. nice and convient for you to share it now

You're right, I didn't. but I also never said I believed it.

Not liking the elleran/zed team up, if elleran is scum clearly zed will be in the hot seat also

I can live with you not liking it, and I can live with the attention it will get if Elleran flips scum somewhere down the line. But I'm not the only one who thinks Elleran is town, I'm just the only one who offered a solution that could work for the whole town.

But andrew, if you won't die if we lynch you, why does it seem like you're getting nervous?

[RobCapone]

I like that response zed, You stand by your convictions

[Elleran]

I like that response zed, You stand by your convictions

Yeah, like I said. Zed says her opinions and stand by it. That is much more useful than Shotty or Darox's seemingly random posts. That is the reason why I feel that Zed is not scum.

Also, where's Furcolow? Did I miss his V/LA somewhere?

[FakeGod]

Vote Count 2.20

Elleran (3): Llamarble, andrew94, don_johnson
RobCapone (1): Furcolow
andrew94 (3): Zed, Elleran, RobCapone

Not Voting: lewarcher82, Darox

With 9 players, it takes 5 votes to lynch someone.

The deadline is Jan. 7th, 2011!

[andrew94]

But andrew, if you won't die if we lynch you, why does it seem like you're getting nervous?

we have a mislynch today. wasting it is bad?

yea and i like your physocology of 'why you getting nervous'. standard question by scum to justify their vote.


@someone what happened to 'andrew had no pressure when he claimed, believe' etc

[Darox]

Vote: Zed

Scum.

[Furcolow]

i'm on page 39ish, i'll have to catch up somewhat tomorrow

[Zed]

No, andrew, I don't need to know why you are getting nervous to justify my vote. I already justifed my vote, I think lynching you is the best action to take. But you avoiding my question is a little scumish, isn't it?

And why would anyone believe you because you claimed with no pressure? The only reason to claim like that is for towncred really, so that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[lewarcher82]

@zed: I think andrew is referring to a specific post of yours...

Interesting move, Darox, I was thinking about it as well, and I may agree with your vote, later I will explain why and cast my vote.

@DJ: I am full of work, dunno if I will be able to collect my critics to Llama's activity. However, what bother(ed/s) me was(is) the fact that he was strong supporter of shotty's lynch, and he basically exhumed my case on Elleran after shotty's flip.

[don_johnson]

no worries. i'll go back and look. i am slowly coming around to this game. i don't recall it being the way you are saying it is, but if its is, then i will certainly give it some thought. more later.

[Darox]

Interesting move, Darox, I was thinking about it as well, and I may agree with your vote, later I will explain why and cast my vote.

Oh boy this doesn't fill me with warm happy vibes at all.

[RobCapone]

Interesting move, Darox, I was thinking about it as well, and I may agree with your vote, later I will explain why and cast my vote.

Oh boy this doesn't fill me with warm happy vibes at all.

I totally agree with this, he better have a damn good explanation when he does post.

Darox - do you think we will learn more from a Zed lynch than we would from an Andrew lynch? if yes, Why do you think so?

[Elleran]

@Rob: I know that the question is addressed to Darox, but I wish to speak my opinions on the question about Zed/Andrew lynch. I don't know whether you are asking Darox exclusively, so I'll remain silent until you allow me.

[RobCapone]

@Rob: I know that the question is addressed to Darox, but I wish to speak my opinions on the question about Zed/Andrew lynch. I don't know whether you are asking Darox exclusively, so I'll remain silent until you allow me.

if you want to chime in i won't hold it against you

[Furcolow]

Invite don err invite Rob umvote! Unvote vote furcolow

reasoning being townie suicide because of my role being a good lynch in case of a player who may be town dying. Lynch me for the town, trust me. Lynch me so Rob won't win as scum in case or lynch Rob. I am blue wot&a voting handicap.

[Elleran]

@Rob: I know that the question is addressed to Darox, but I wish to speak my opinions on the question about Zed/Andrew lynch. I don't know whether you are asking Darox exclusively, so I'll remain silent until you allow me.

if you want to chime in i won't hold it against you

Alrighty then.

My thoughts on a Zed vs Andrew lynch are pretty simple.

I believe Andrew to be the better lynch for today. First, simply, there have been more interactions with Andrew. This means that his lynch and his resulting flip (if he were to die) would be more informative than Zed's flip.

Second, because Andrew claimed a role and his name already, lynching him can not only confirm (or disprove) his role but it can also either confirm Andrew as a town who will be no matter what be alive for tomorrow or kill a scum which is always good.

[Elleran]

Invite don err invite Rob umvote! Unvote vote furcolow

reasoning being townie suicide because of my role being a good lynch in case of a player who may be town dying. Lynch me for the town, trust me. Lynch me so Rob won't win as scum in case or lynch Rob. I am blue wot&a voting handicap.

Uhh... Can you clarify this? I cannot read this post.

[andrew94]

err elleran, the problem is that it will be mylo 2morrow if you lynch me.


and clarify that post furcolow

[Darox]

Interesting move, Darox, I was thinking about it as well, and I may agree with your vote, later I will explain why and cast my vote.

Oh boy this doesn't fill me with warm happy vibes at all.

I totally agree with this, he better have a damn good explanation when he does post.

Darox - do you think we will learn more from a Zed lynch than we would from an Andrew lynch? if yes, Why do you think so?

Zed, which is why I am voting her.

I don't particularly doubt Andrew at this point. Even if we did get a flip for him, rather than just a short blurb saying he didn't die, I think lynching Zed would be more productive.

[Llamarble]

@Furc:What?

I very strongly dislike all of this "We should lynch Andrew and not Elleran or Zed because setup reasons,"
Since the setup reasons being mentioned are absolutely terrible and the strongest advocates are turboscummy.
Scum love when they think they can get away with using strategic reasoning to avoid getting lynched,
since the next day they can say "oh, that was just strategy!"
Same goes for Zed's defense of Elleran on the basis of "don't lynch a claimed PR."
Strategic reasoning should only be used when something else is _Clearly_ better than just lynching the scummiest player.
Example: Lynching Andrew in mylo or no lynching in standard mylo.
Otherwise it's essentially always best to lynch the scummiest player.
In this particular case, the strategic situation actually makes it _significantly worse_ than normal to lynch Andrewtown than a normal townie.

Allow me to explain how bad what Lew suggested and Elleran, Zed, and Rob are voting for is:
They want us to lynch a player who isn't among the scummiest and then if we're wrong give the scum two straight NKs (one today and one tomorrow after we no-lynch in mylo).
The scum would even get to kill Andrew, since they can shoot him repeatedly after we no-lynch in mylo (lynching in mylo is bad), so we don't even get a confirmed town out of it.

Being on track to mylo is only good if we have something good to do in mylo (Andrew lynch) or have a good chance of the scum NK failing, or can make an extra town NK.
We would be using our mylo-useful action up today, the scum are unlikely to fail their NK (since if Andrew is town then he and the GCs are probably the extent of our kill prevention and a scumGC could make that moot), and if we have our own NK it would be equally good and more informative to lynch someone else today and let the vig test Andrew's innocence. Therefore there is no way lynching Andrew today is positive unless he is scum, but he is not the scummiest player.
The players (Elleran especially, since Elleran professed a "sure" belief in Andrew's innocence before despite claiming a role which can actually use "sure" meaningfully) trying to use his role as an (awful) excuse to lynch him are far scummier than he is.

I believe Elleran is scum. We should lynch him so there are less scum.
It looks like Zed or Darox but probably not both are Elleranbuddies.
I'm leaning strongly toward Zed after a reread. Darox is creeping toward redemption.
On a reread of her, she offers to hammer Elleran while he's at L-1, saying he's the best lynch (specifically because she "likes llamarble's case" and finds him too trusting) right before Elleran's claim and then after a couple people unvote she does a 180 and says she believes his claim. I think she figured he was a doomed buddy and readied a bussing hammer vote, then decided there was hope and changed around. Next she's for my lynch for no reason other than my continuing to believe Elleran is scum after his claim. She says my logic doesn't have particular holes but she doesn't agree with it after having said she agreed with a case based on several of the same points before. Then she changes her vote to Andrew when he becomes the most promising nonElleran/Zed target. She also invokes the deadline to push that terribly reasoned lynch. She also voted for the ivy lynch for incredibly weak reasons, if any at all. Early day 1 she said she said Elleran didn't seem scummy.
I think she is lurkerscum.
I have no idea where Elleran gets this "stands by her opinions" vibe since she has said almost nothing and yet has still managed to go back and forth all over.

Then the third scum would be a GC, DJ, or Lewarcher (Andrew seems doubtful unless bus mode is activated).
Lewarcher might be contemplating a Zed bus or simply a Zed vote. He did come up with this Andrewvote business too.
I need to read DJ more, but if he's scum he's bussing Elleran pretty convincingly.

The deadline is coming in a couple of days.
We should lynch Elleran.

[Furcolow]

Invite don err invite Rob umvote! Unvote vote furcolow

reasoning being townie suicide because of my role being a good lynch in case of a player who may be town dying. Lynch me for the town, trust me. Lynch me so Rob won't win as scum in case or lynch Rob. I am blue wot&a voting handicap.

Uhh... Can you clarify this? I cannot read this post.

although i would lynch andrew i would rather lynch myself or rob
noone will lynch rob, so why not lynch me
our ability should not even matter unless everyone nameclaims, and i will not be willing to send anyone to check anyone unless it is me checking rob otherwise

that is the only way i will remain not voting myself and willing to lynch andrew for his idiocy

[Furcolow]

llamarble you are providing no reasoning
i see you as scum with rob
you have polarized zed and darox with elleran while i see the connections between you and rob
i dont see darox with elleran or zed with elleran as scum if you are scum, so you've made your flip nice to me
definitely willing to lynch you for information