Oldy Mafia (Game Over, who won?)

[inHimshallibe]

MBL, you never really gave me a town/scum verdict on Gurgi. Just some leanings both ways.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Explain this discrepancy, MBL:

CES, anything besides inHim's Yos vote bother you about him? You were fine with his D1 play, and so was I to some extent, or I'd have jumped on his wagon at the end of yesterday.

CES has been pretty lazy but wanted inHim dead at deadline yesterday and again today.

[Lord Gurgi]

If I ignore what you say, you call me scum for ignoring what you said. If I listen to what you say, you call me scum for listening to what you say.

[inHimshallibe]

If I ignore what you say, you call me scum for ignoring what you said. If I listen to what you say, you call me scum for listening to what you say.

It's the fact you feel the need to respond to me that is what's so damning.

[Lord Gurgi]

I voice my frustration. I don't make a habit of ignoring people when very shortly I won't have to.

[inHimshallibe]

Let me try and be clearer: whenever I think someone could be Town or I'm just leaning, I talk with them and ask them questions to try and form opinions about the game. When I'm talking with scum, it's to expose said scum to the rest of the Town. Perhaps this is where you get the crazed tinfoil persona from: I've already made a decision on a lot of people and tend to just flat out ignore questions or opinions about me that come from people I don't particularly feel are Town. I just don't care what they think about me; me and that bloc of Town are on our way to winning. I guess, if anything, I should care more about the inevitable nebulous group that we will face. I also get really upset when people don't think I'm Town.

I voice my frustration. I don't make a habit of ignoring people when very shortly I won't have to.

Hm. This almost sounds genuine, and dumb. I'll go on record and say again that this will IMMENSELY unsatisfying if you are town.

[inHimshallibe]

Glork is troubling me. There, I said it.

[Lord Gurgi]

So then why are you going through the trouble of explaining this to me?

Why haven't you done any last post type thing?

[Glork]

[quote="MBL']Glork said he's conflicted on inHim and bizarrely added CTD to his scumlist.[/quote]Nah, inHim's town... he's just caught up in some awkward interactions with the known scums.

My addition of CTD probably looks bizarre, but it's because he is playing bizarrely. His questioning of whether I "know" who the scums are, just because I referred to Yosscum and Shanscum as "known scum" doesn't really make any sense. I bluntly and factually state that people are scum all the time... I'd say easily in 80% of the games I play. CTD

knows

this, and I know he knows this, so I'm trying to figure out what in Glork's name has caused him that *this* time is different. IIRC, he had some suspicions of me during D1, so I'm wondering if it's a case of confirmation bias, but I'd really like an explanation on this one and tbh, I've been pretty underwhelmed by CTD's play thus far.

[Glork]

Glork is troubling me. There, I said it.

I'll bite. Why?

[inHimshallibe]

So then why are you going through the trouble of explaining this to me?

Why haven't you done any last post type thing?

That first paragraph was more to the general populace, FTR.

I'll trade you unvotes. We can even call each other Town. Kind of like a ceasefire, 'cause that last post of yours rang so genuine that I'm very heavily starting to doubt my read.

[inHimshallibe]

Glork is troubling me. There, I said it.

I'll bite. Why?

Well, you finally called me Town throughout this Purgatory of mine, so it makes me feel a little better.

Is Yosarian the only scum on my wagon? 'Cause, that'd be weird.

[Glork]

That would be weird. HH has been under my radar all game. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've gotten any strong reading on him one way or another, so I'll add him to the list of people I need to look at overnight. CDB and Porochaz are still decent scum candidates, especially in the event that CTD is not scum.

I have no interest in killng Gurgi, CES, or Chamber. Oh, and MBL is still town, even though he's going to hammer you.

[inHimshallibe]

That is to say, Glork, I thought you were ready to vote me on several occasions without really saying all that much.

unvote
vote: Yosarian2

Dammit, Gurgi.

[MrBuddyLee]

Explain this discrepancy, MBL:

CES, anything besides inHim's Yos vote bother you about him? You were fine with his D1 play, and so was I to some extent, or I'd have jumped on his wagon at the end of yesterday.

CES has been pretty lazy but wanted inHim dead at deadline yesterday and again today.

You didn't mention inHim until you voted him, so I imagine you were somewhat fine with him up until that point yesterday. You were willing to lynch him though, particularly over me as the other option at the time--you put him at 5-4 inHim/MBL I think and you only switched to Mert when it was 7-4 Mert/inHim and likely the only viable lynch. The more recent comment was in the context of showing people's clear intent. You're one of the people being clear about who you want lynched today, and there's another evidence point from yesterday to suggest that you're probably not scum if inHim comes up scum.

[inHimshallibe]

If you'll give me tonight, I'll do a massive last post. It'll be like a chain smoker in front of the firing squad.

[MrBuddyLee]

My addition of CTD probably looks bizarre, but it's because he is playing bizarrely. His questioning of whether I "know" who the scums are, just because I referred to Yosscum and Shanscum as "known scum" doesn't really make any sense. I bluntly and factually state that people are scum all the time... I'd say easily in 80% of the games I play. CTD

knows

this, and I know he knows this, so I'm trying to figure out what in Glork's name has caused him that *this* time is different. IIRC, he had some suspicions of me during D1, so I'm wondering if it's a case of confirmation bias, but I'd really like an explanation on this one and tbh, I've been pretty underwhelmed by CTD's play thus far.

Yes, I was talking more about the specific context of your FOS--he just seemed to be asking you to clarify that you thought Yos and Shanba were the obvscum. I just iso'd CTD and he has not really driven the case on Yos nor defended inHim stridently. I'll paste the post I was starting to make here:


Obviously not everyone who is NOT pushing cases they believe in right now is scum. But part of mafia is figuring out WHY people aren't pushing those cases.

CTD, you're voting Yos and think inHim is likely town. You've given nearly no defense of inHim in the past three weeks other than "he's not playing this the way scum would." You think DGB is more likely scum than Yos. You think they're a likely scumpair together. You're not making the case, and you seem to be satisfied with the clock running out on inHim instead of pushing Yos by rereading him and making a more solid case. Why?

Shanba, you unvoted to consider whether or not Yos is scum. You didn't take any time to defend inHim but you don't think he's scum. You don't appear to have an alternative suspect to Yos should you decide magically that he is now townish. Maaaaybe Ythill but you've hedged that. Maaaaaybe Flameaxe for lurking but you hedged that. You've defended me, Glork, inHim, chamber, CTD. You left DGB off but later said you have a townread on her. You say CDB is a scumread because he's lurked and because CTD's case is good. You say the blindspot on Flameaxe is sinister and that people who were on CDB's wagon should read up on Flameaxe. My paranoia says one is scum and one is town and you know which is which. You have Huck as lurking scum. It feels like you're going after the lurkers, and Yos. You definitely need to clarify your thoughts on Yos now before the day ends.

[Ythill]

Hey, I overslept and have to rush to get to work on time. Though I skimmed for vote changes, I haven't read anything since my last post and don't intend to hammer until I do so.

See y'all in about ten hours...

[Yosarian2]

Well... I do have a bit of a bone to pick with Yos now.

I answered his question about what I accomplished out of my claim. I answered, on my cell phone no less. Do you realize how painful cell phone posting is? And Yos ignores it, choosing to only pick up where his detractors start arguing again. From the tone of his previous posts, if I had explained myself, he would unvote. But with the heat coming in on him, oh, let's just put inHim over in the corner and let him get deadline lynched. I guess, Gurgi, that this is also textbook scum survivalism in action?

unvote
vote: Yosarian2

Lame.

The reason I asked was because it soudned like what you figured out, based on your absurldly risky gambit, was that my play on Ecto day 1 made sense and that you probably shouldn't have been voting me. It sounded like that was what you got out of your claim. And yet, within 12 hours or so, you were attacking me again, for a pretty terrible reason.

I'm asking because I really don't believe that you did that whole fakeclaim just to "ask me a question about Ecto" or whatever, because you don't seem to really care about the answer to that question at all now. If you were a town and did some kind of crazy gambit to get information, you should be over-eager to share that information right now, especally with you at the edge of death here, but instead, you'd actually rather vote me for asking you the question then you would explain what you learned from your gambit.

It's becoming increasingly clear it wasn't an information gambit at all; it was a desperate attempt to stay alive, one you re-thought a little while later, and you're now lying about your motives for it. That dosn't 100% prove that you're scum, you could be a townie who is trying to lie your way out of a lynch, but that seems pretty unlikely at this point.

Someone should hammer InHim now. I don't like putting this off any farther, the closer we get to the deadline before we hammer the higher risk something stupid happens and we just fail to lynch completely.

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: inHim

[CrashTextDummie]

Happy new year, everyone.

My addition of CTD probably looks bizarre, but it's because he is playing bizarrely. His questioning of whether I "know" who the scums are, just because I referred to Yosscum and Shanscum as "known scum" doesn't really make any sense. I bluntly and factually state that people are scum all the time... I'd say easily in 80% of the games I play. CTD knows this, and I know he knows this, so I'm trying to figure out what in Glork's name has caused him that *this* time is different. IIRC, he had some suspicions of me during D1, so I'm wondering if it's a case of confirmation bias, but I'd really like an explanation on this one and tbh, I've been pretty underwhelmed by CTD's play thus far.

The term "known scum" is very clearly defined as "players who have cardflipped scum". There are none in this game so far. I took issue with your statement because in my mind, it's not the same as bluntly and factually stating that someone is scum (i.e. "you are scum"). It's, at the very least, a distortion of the facts, particularly when the scumminess of your supposed "known scum" is in dispute (we may agree on Yos, but I vehemently disagree with you on Shanba). Furthermore, I took issue because "association with known scum" is a tell that carries a considerable amount of weight. You using it here fallaciously, to weakly support the inHim wagon in a way that keeps your hands clean if he's lynched as town and gives you an opening of attack against your "known scum" if he's lynched as scum rubs me the wrong way.

As for my "bizarre" question: I don't actually think that you'd make a slip of this magnitude, but I reserve the right to call and question you on your bullshit, thank you very much. There is no known scum except to the scum. It's a perfectly valid question to ask.

I think your overreaction to this is hilarious. Last I knew, you had no reason to suspect me, and now I've made it into your top three. Please explain how bizarre = scum in this case. At least you've been pretty consistent about the being underwhelmed with my play part. You've called me terrible and lazy, and yet your attack against Yos is piggybacking off my argument and you've admitted yourself that the laziness-accusation was uncalled for. Your entire conduct towards me is way, way below par.

CTD, you're voting Yos and think inHim is likely town. You've given nearly no defense of inHim in the past three weeks other than "he's not playing this the way scum would." You think DGB is more likely scum than Yos. You think they're a likely scumpair together. You're not making the case, and you seem to be satisfied with the clock running out on inHim instead of pushing Yos by rereading him and making a more solid case. Why?

Short answer: Lack of time.
Long answer:
1. I have resigned myself to let the DGB thing play out. I don't think she's played anything like a vig, even a gambity one, but a good night's sleep should bring some clarity.
2. You should know my meta. I don't spend my time defending people unless I'm absoutely convinced of their innocence or I think their lynch puts the town in immediate jeopardy of losing. I fight undesireable wagons by pushing stronger ones. I've done plenty of leg work on the Yos wagon, I think it's stronger than the inHim wagon, but I doubt I could have shifted momentum. If I had the time, I probably would have tried to start a new one, likely on Glork.
3. I won't exactly shed a tear if inHim is lynched. His recent antics (the nurse-claim, the vote-hopping) have been unsavory, and while I still think he's more likely town than scum, I wouldn't bet on it anymore. His wagon is a lot more solid than the Mert-wagon was, at least, and should give us plenty to work with in any case.

[Patrick]

Final Votecount

Yosarian2 (4) -- Glork, CrashTextDummie, Ythill, inHimshallibe
inHimshallibe (8) -- ChannelDelibird, Lord Gurgi, Cogito Ergo Sum, chamber, HackerHuck, Yosarian2, Porochaz, MrBuddyLee
Lord Gurgi (1) -- DrippingGoofball

Not voting: Ether, Shanba
15 alive, 8 to lynch

-------------------------------------

inHimshallibe - Vanilla Townie - lynched day 2

With that, night 2 falls. You have 72 hours to send me your actions.

[Patrick]

Day 3 dawns with another couple of people dead:

DrippingGoofball - Vanilla Townie - killed night 2
Yosarian2 - Vanilla Townie - killed night 2

Day 3 is deadlined for the 21st of January. It won't be extended unless two or more people are being replaced in the run up to deadline. 12 alive, 7 to lynch.

[Ether]

vote: HackerHuck

[Porochaz]

K I am currently out of town at the funeral, so Im V/LA for a few days then I will post the rest later.