Mini 1088: Cookie Thief Mafia (Game Over)

[RobCapone]

unvote

last thing I need is mafia bandwagon somebody while I am sleeping, I will wait for others to post but for right now Furc is on my shitlist because he fucked the GCs over last night.

I can't imagine how he is going to spin this one.

[FakeGod]

Vote Count 3.1

Elleran (1): Llamarble

Not Voting: Furcolow, andrew94, Elleran, don_johnson, Darox, RobCapone

With 7 players, it takes 4 votes to lynch someone.

[Elleran]

WOW.

Hold on, let me vent,

[vent]

STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID MAFIA. STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID ME. STUPID

STUPID

STUPID

WIFOM TO THE MAX.

[/vent]

[Elleran]

So I name investigated lewarcher, which doesn't matter anymore since he is dead. Now there's a stupid WIFOM all over town. The reason why I investigated lewarcher was to confirm his townieness. He and Llamarble (imo) are the players in this game who I had a very cautious view of. By the way they were arguing, it seemed to me that it was impossible for both of them to be scum. I was caught between investigating between the two but decided on lewarcher for 2 reasons.

First reason was that I thought Llarmarble to be a scum. Although counter-intuitive, I decided NOT to investigated him because of this very reason. Even if had I investigated him, it would have only led to him denying his 'outrageous' name that I revealed and would have (again) pushed for my lynch, claiming that my result had been faked.

Second reason was that by investigating lewarcher (who I believed to be town), I could claim his name and gain his trust. Since we were planning on claiming today anyway, me claiming his name for him and him confirming it would not have been harmful to town in any form. Since I did not believe lewarcher to be scum and thus I did not believe that he would deny his own name that I would tell him, I believed investigating lewarcher to be a better and more reliable way to catch scum tonight.

Had lewarcher survived tonight, this would have been the case:
Elleran - town
Darox - town
lewarcher - town

and would have left the following
Llarmarble - ?
Andrew - ?
Furc/Rob - town/? or ?/town
Don - ?

Since neither of the GC would have died, it would have left one of the others dead, leading to the conclusion that 2 who are not in GC to be confirmed scum with 1 of the GCs a scum.

Unfortunately, this was not the case. Now, to me, there is only one optimal action.

Scenario 1: Llamarble's claim is true. In this scenario, Llamarble's proposed strategy is reasonable. However, to me, this is IMPOSSIBLE. His claim and my claim are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. If he is indeed a cop, that means I am automatically scum. Of the four that are on his "I don't know his alignment" list, both Darox and I are on the list. That means unless both of the GC are scums (which we are in an unanimous agreement that this is not the case), this only leaves 2 possible scums. This is IMPOSSIBLE. So in this case, if Llamarble is truly a cop, then I am scum who have fake claimed. Period. No denial.

Llamarble, confirm that this logic is correct.

Scenario 2: My claim and alignment detection on Darox is true. In this scenario, the four above in my own list are probably scum. Of the four, Llarmarble has just claimed a role that is strictly mutually exclusive to mine. This leaves him scum with a fake claim for the same reason as why I am scum in scenario 1.

Thus, I have come to the conclusion that either me or Llarmarble should be lynched today NO MATTER WHAT. To the rest of you who understand my logic above, it is not possible for one of us not to be scum, thus the chance of catching scum by lynching one of us is 50%. Please do not build a case against anyone else other than against one of us. That will not only waste time, but it will also detract away from the maximum discussion time.

Today is the day that either the game ends or the game continues.

I now know that Llarmarble is scum. I know this as much as Llamarble knows that I am scum. (or I guess he wants to make me look scum as possible.)

VOTE: Llarmarble

Bravo, Llarmarble. Your scum abilities are impressive. Alas, I have caught you at last.

[andrew94]

llarmarble, how the hell can we 100% trust u. you should have cc'ed yesterday so we lynch one of u, then the other

elleran, since u said that we are either lynching you or llarmarble today....
so i can say bullshit right

[RobCapone]

Furc's refusal to provide a name is definitely putting him on the scum list

We have to pick between llamar or elleran as scum, both claims are believable

Lol Andrew, how are you going to decide which PR is lying?

[Darox]

Hey everybody. So we're doing the massclaim, good, I support that.
However, the nature of my power means I want to be the last person to claim. Think of it like a watcher.

I notice that none of the dead have had their role revealed, just their name and alignment. This screws things up slightly for town.

[Elleran]

So how are we going to do this mass claim? I know Darox is town, so I support him going last if he insists.

Someone start the popcorn (if we are using that method). Or rather, I will start it.

I am

Extraordinary Eli

. I am a

JOAT

with 3 abilities: alignment detection, name detection, and a variant on watcher.

Rob Capone, you claim next.

P.S. to the GC, did you guys name-cop anyone last night? Don't reveal who or what the person's name is yet, but I want to know whether you actually spied anyone or not.

[RobCapone]

I am

Cute Clara

I am

Governor

I have the ability to give my cookie to somebody who has been lynched to save them, I must post in twilight for it to work.

and clearly you didn't read because furclow caused us to stalemate because he did not tell me who he submitted, we have to submit the same name

Andrew you are next

[Elleran]

@Rob: oops, you're right. I missed that part and I didn't read that. Still, we can't get distracted by Furc today.

@MOD: Look at your vote count. Where's Rob?

Fixed. -mod

[Llamarble]

I find Rob's claim extremely sketchy.
I can't imagine a situation where any town player should ever sacrifice themself for another player before their flip.

[Llamarble]

I guess if he were trying to save somebody important he had namecopped a self sacrifice could confirm his namecop-ees as town?
If Angry Angela was a vig (probably 1shot given the town investigative power) she might be worth keeping around for an extra night??
Self sacrificing governor is still a really really weird role though.

[Llamarble]

And now the longer post I was working on:

The logic Elleran described above is the reason I stated that he is confirmed scum, so yes I confirm it's correct.

I seriously considered counterclaiming yesterday, but didn't for several reasons.
Reason 1 is the most important.

1. I thought I would be able to get Elleran lynched without counterclaiming. This would give me a better chance of avoiding a roleblock or NK or other scum shenanigans. I believed this because Lewarcher, DJ, Rob, Furcolow, and Andrew expressed willingness to vote him at different times and the main counterwagon on Andrew was founded on logic that did not make sense, so I figured come deadlinetime I would get my Elleran lynch. I also was able to present a much stronger case against Elleran than anyone presented against any other players. Unfortunately Zed looked like an Elleranbuddy and got some votes shortly before the deadline and then claimed a must-lynch-this-player ability, and lynching someone other than Elleran was better than nolynching.

2. I didn't and don't think there's a doctor. GCs + Andrew are plenty of NK reducing townpower, and the cop + doctor combo is typically considered too strong. That means I'd have simply died last night after trading for a scum.

3. I wasn't sure it would actually help me get Elleran lynched. Since things seemed to be moving toward an Elleran lynch, I didn't want to change the game/break the momentum by making my claim, as that would also give Elleran something to yell at. As it was, he presented no case against me other than me tunneling him, which just made him an easier scum to lynch.


I tend to think Andrew is town and Darox is scum and a GC is scum with Elleran.
The strongest counterwagon before the Zed one yesterday was against Andrew.
Then when that one was failing the Darox-pushed one on Zed actually stopped my Elleranlynch.
Darox was also the primary pusher behind the Shotty "lynch."

Elleran was the primary wagon yesterday until the Andrew/Zed wagons arose as counterwagons.
If one player looks like the day's lynch, and then another wagon rises up shortly before the deadline instead, it's likely a scumdriven counterwagon to protect a player.
Elleran wasn't actually on that wagon, but he helped it forward by saying Zed was town with no logical backing.
The fact that the strongest case yesterday was mine against Elleran but it didn't get him lynched also makes it more likely he is scum, since scum are harder to lynch by virtue of having some of the voters as allies.

Now Elleran is claiming that the namecheck he was going to perform to prove himself conveniently died last night.

I have presented mountains and mountains of evidence for Elleran being scum, whereas he has justified none of his actions with scumhunting-logic and has instead given out unsupported reads. Now we have reached a situation where it is clear to all that one of us is scum. And one wrong vote can wreck us.

Sorry Andrew, I can't 100% prove I'm town until we've lynched Elleran; the whole town has to vote Elleran based on reads / the greater strength of my case in order for us to not lose today.

Darox's watcher claim is interesting; it makes a JOAT even less plausible; cop(me)/watcher(Darox)/namecop(GCs) makes much more sense than watcher/namecop/(watchernamecopcop). Particularly without a doctor and with all the things that mislead (harold, GCs, Elleranlaptopusingability).

A scum with all Elleran's abilities would make a lot of sense though; it would make PR hunting a good deal easier (watcher, namefinder) and could help find townies with funny investigation status(i.e. Andrew or the GCs).

[Elleran]

@Llamarble: Your counterclaim logic is just as legitimate/bogus as my justification for my reason why I investigated lewarcher last night. Since you are scum, had I had investigated you, you would even add "making up names to prevent lynch" to your list by simply denying that the name is real. Plus, just because some of our abilities overlap doesn't mean your claim is a direct counterclaim against mine.

Literally, your logic is just as solid as mine.

[Llamarble]

Now Elleran is just trying to put himself on an equal footing with me in town's eyes.
He still has yet to give scumhunting logic for lynching me. Instead he just defends and defends and says oh look it's 50-50, hoping to get a townie to vote me so the scumteam can quickhammer.

It's true my claim is not a direct counterclaim, since cop and JOAT are not incredibly rare as a combo, but in this case cop/investigative JOAT/GCs seemed like too much town investigative power to me, particularly given claimed protective power from Andrew and the roleblock aspect of the GCpower. And the overlap isn't just with me, it's overlap with both me and the GCs (and now apparently Darox), which was a lot to believe given how scummy Elleran already was.

[Furcolow]

Well just want to relate I am Pretty sure furc is scum now

He didn't want to take my suggestions
He said he wanted to investigate me but I told him I already claimed my name and wasn't wasting an investigation to check and verify I'm telling the truth especially since furc wouldn't claim his name
He accused me of wanting to force a stalemate and he was going to investigate whoever he wanted
I said fine but tell me who cause we had to submit the same name
He never posts again so I don't know who to submit

Fuck you scum

vote: furc

admission of non submittal
non compliant scum
i sent in an action, you didn't
ad hominem

vote: rob

wait, no

unvote;
vote: elleran

zed being lynched kept me from losing my vote, i misread my role pm.
if the mafia had killed zed, though, i would have lost my vote

[Llamarble]

Furc's last makes sense, and him voting Elleran here makes me think it's more likely he's town, particularly after Rob's weird claim.
Having the hated townie cause the voteloss by being NKed means the town will never have both the vote-handicap and the easy lynch come into play.

[Furcolow]

pro-town hi-five?!
*goes for hi-five*

[Furcolow]

wait, my name is furco

low

*low five*

[RobCapone]

admission of non submittal
non compliant scum
i sent in an action, you didn't
ad hominem

vote: rob

wait, no

unvote;
vote: elleran

zed being lynched kept me from losing my vote, i misread my role pm.
if the mafia had killed zed, though, i would have lost my vote

1. you still miss the point that WE ARE SUPPOSED TO SEND IN THE SAME FUCKING NAME so if you don't tell me who to submit, we will stalemate
2. how was I non-compliant when you never told me who to send in?
3. I actually did send in a name, I sent in you to go check lewarcher but you sent in somebody else's name, if you would have told me who that was I could have done the same

Furc - did you post in the QT who you were going to send in an action on (AFTER I told you that I was not going to allow you to waste an investigation on somebody who had already claimed a name) ? yes or no

Llmarble - I don't die, I actually have an extra cookie that I can give, reading back I wasn't as clear in my post I should have said I give A cookie not MY cookie

[RobCapone]

ok so reading through again I think the scum team is Furc, elleran, and Don

Vote: Elleran

[andrew94]

claim survivor

sup

[Darox]

claim survivor

sup

Full claim, thanks.

[RobCapone]

unvote

Wait, 3rd party?

[andrew94]

test completed: results

darox = scum
rob = unsure

darox asked for a full claim, indicating his scared etc

im just odd olivia, no-alignment on check, 2extra lives
tyvm