FishytheFish wrote:@Jahudo: have you looked in detail at the cases of BB and DLG on Llama? What do you think of them?
I've commented on some points but yes, I can go point by point for the record.
Bub's case on llarmable:
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302 says llarmable flip-flopped on Darla read.
I don't read much into it because replacements can have second-thoughts after reads and re-reads of ISOs. His posts looked more like a running commentary than solid stances. And I don't think llarmable directly called Darla scum or scummy in 277.
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339 says llarmable looks scared scum for writing in caps, and that llarmable is contradictory in calling his wagon a quicklynch while trying to quicklynch Bub.
I don't think CAPS is an alignment tell. Its a playstyle thing some people do situationally to their advantage, but I think they would do it as either alignment--Fate included. The quicklynch comments sound like hot air on both sides because they are viewing their wagons from their perspective only. Llarmable was already half-way to a lynch when he replaced in so I don't think people were piling on him in a hurry to get him lynched, but at the same time Llarmable responded like any townie should in his situation: defend the case against you and offer a better alternative through scumhunting.
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353 says Llarmable lied about his read-through timeline, and that he boosts about his content like cornered scum.
It looks like Bub has a point but I only read it as a lie/mistake. Llarmable had no reason to lie that I can see. The part about content is subjective coming from Bub, because most of it is an investigation he is against. As a neutral party I do see enough content that I could expect from a player replacing under these circumstances. I like that Llarmable pointed out the examples of people lining up lynches, or at least having suspects on the condition that so and so flips first (but alot of people did it so it might not be as reliable as the suspicion sounds). He also tries to be involved in other discussions like the Whisky lie/sarcasm, so there is content from llarmable. I don't see evidence of it being hollow or forced.
DLG case on llarmable:
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343 says llarmable flip-flopped on Daria because she hadn't done anything between his posts to warrant a flop, says he buys time for strategy, implies llarmable called bobs town for his stance on Bub, and tries to stall his wagon.
Llarmable did not re-think Daria based on current events, it looked clear that he was still reading past events and he talked about it that way in that post. I don't understand the "buying time" argument either because the earlier quote suggests llarmable saw the ender case but did not understand it. So it actually does make sense that he would take another look at the ender case if he was town or scum. The part about bobs is a valid point to think about. Llarmable is clearly forming his bobsnox read using the confidence he has that Bub is scum. It looks similar to the purpose behind "setting up mislynches on a single player's alignment", but the affect on bobs is less clear here. And finally the "stalling" argument is null because town would try anything to survive just like scum. Its a circumstantial tell only.
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396 uses the argument that ender also looked like scum.
Personally my read was incomplete when ender replaced out. He didn't defend against himself and I never got an answer for why he didn't re-vote Final Fires right away after learning he could without hammering. It bugged me, but I don't know if he actually had a reason or not because he never said. So he's still just a person of interest in my eyes.
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MoreWhisky wrote:Its been said before but ender made a mess of his role, he wasnt scum he was new to this. Llmarble doent deserve this wagon.
A wagon you've read through? Can you honestly say you know why people are voting llarmable for things llarmble has said/done?