Newbie 1080 -- Game over

[Hiraki]

Alright. I've made my conclusions.

Unvote

Brundi is making newbietown mistakes. If he's scum, then GJ on the cover, because you're really making me doubt myself. For the moment though, we need better pressure on Jack.

Vote: Jack

But I think I am going to place my Vote:martini I don't know if any of you have seen it but it looks like he is lurking. Tell me if I am wrong, that is scummy.

Alright so you're going to place a vote on someone, but you're asking if your scumtell is a legitimate scumtell?

Is something wrong here?

[Shift]

Decent post from Brundi, but still the best place for a vote in my opinion. Jack is a close second.

[theplague42]

Gah couldn't resist.

Jack's post is definitely strange, but it's just as easily pegged as newbie as brundibar's posts are. Difference is that brundibar has made a lot more bad posts.

[Hiraki]

Gah couldn't resist.

Jack's post is definitely strange, but it's just as easily pegged as newbie as brundibar's posts are. Difference is that brundibar has made a lot more bad posts.

But um. Just because one newbie makes more bad posts than the other newbie doesn't mean that the newbie making more bad posts is scum.

Defense noted.

[theplague42]

Then how else do you find scum? Basically, you're implying that scum make fewer mistakes/bad posts than town. Since both newbie scum and town are equally likely to make more mistakes, that's also implying that even experienced town make more mistakes than scum.

Or am I missing something?

[Does Bo Know]

I'm finding it hard to separate what's scummy from brundibar and what's newbie from brundibar. I'm going to let it go for now, and try to focus on other players for possibilities.

I don't like Jack's post. He explains his vote after we find him suspicious for not doing so earlier, he votes martini for lurking and asks if it's a scumtell (as Hikari basically stated earlier), and he attacks Plague's reason for voting brundibar (even though Plague's vote on brundibar was reasonable, just no broken down). I really don't see that as newbie as brundibar, like Plague suggests, but just mistakes that townies usually wouldn't make

For those reasons, I'm placing a

vote on Jack Forman

.

I'm gonna need to read these recent posts at least 3 more times to fully understand what's going on right now, though. I'll get to that later.

[Shift]

Jack ISO-5 posts

Iso#1=Confirming
Iso#2=Fluff (Where he lives, etc.)
Iso#3=More fluff, RVS vote (Note: Fluff fully acceptable, still RVS)
Iso#4

I didn't give a reason cus i thought that everyone knew that we are in the RVS stage and I voted Shift just to put pressure on him. Witch you said in your post #53

L-2 pressure just because someone didn't post in a day and a half? Odd.

So therefore I was just saying I found him being suspicious cus he was not posting.

Lurking in the RVS is suspicious?

First off are you guys really worried about a bandwagon this early in the game? And I don't see anything random about my post... I said hello to a new member of the group.... I respond to a vote that some one placed on me cus of my name spelling(RVS) and gave them a reason for why I did it that way... And lastly i placed my vote(Rvs) to apply pressure.

What I see in this entire post: "i voted for pressure because Shift hadn't posted since the day started, it was suspicious"

Mhmmmmmm.

Iso#5:

I placed my vote on Shift to get him to talk some more by putting him at L-2, but now he is posting so I am going to take my vote back for now.

Again? Something new, please.

But I think I am going to place my Vote:martini I don't know if any of you have seen it but it looks like he is lurking. Tell me if I am wrong, that is scummy.

Here we go again. More lurkervoting.

We are still in the RVS for the most part and Brundibar is most likely trying to get people to talk just like everyone else is doing. So you have very little evidence to vote Brundibar, but you vote him anyways. Why is it wrong for him to do it but it is ok for you to vote that way? You said you have use this before as scum, so since you are doing it again does this mean you are scum again?

It's pretty clear we're pretty much out of the RVS, and your defense of Brundi is not really helping from what I see. And unlike Brundi, we've got complete reason to vote him. His last post was the only good one he's made all game, and even then it doesn't really give off townvibes, just sincere. Maf don't have to pull reasoning out of nowhere, believe it or not. theplague and I gave plenty of reason to vote him, and your accusation of him with this horrible base is what puts you at #2 on my scumdar currently. Here's what's going on, essentially.

theplague says voting without evidence is often used by scum, gives evidence through his vote -> Jack accuses theplague of not giving evidence the same way, defending Brundi at the same time, accusation is obviously false as plague and I have supplied plenty. Brundi supplied no good reasons at all. -> Jack, ironically, does the same thing plague accused Brundi of (correctly) and Jack accused plague of (incorrectly). He's attacking plague for giving the fact that he's seen maf vote with no evidence before and accusing plague of giving no evidence, while giving none himself. Completely hypocritical statement. Why not accuse Brundi if they're doing the exact same thing? And after this push on plague I'd be expecting a plague vote, not a lurkervote.

VOTE: Jack Forman

That's L-1, and I'm happy with my #2 FoS getting lynched definitely. Could be better, but not much better.

[Hiraki]

I like this wagon a lot. Claim please.

[Does Bo Know]

Jack's already on L-1?

Unvote

. I don't wanna risk a hammer.

Jack, give reasons why we shouldn't vote you. If your reasons don't please me, I'll simply put a vote back on you.

Ninja'd by Hikari! Argh...but still. Please give valid reasons why we should lynch you right now.

[brundibar]

Jack's already on L-1?

Unvote

. I don't wanna risk a hammer.

Jack, give reasons why we shouldn't vote you. If your reasons don't please me, I'll simply put a vote back on you.

Ninja'd by Hikari! Argh...but still. Please give valid reasons why we should lynch you right now.

So maybe this is completely bad logic, but it seems to me that Bo might be pulling his vote off Jack if they are both scum, and Bo is trying to protect Jack now that it looks like he might actually get lynched. He may have put his vote in early to take some suspicion off of himself, but now that it's getting serious he doesn't want his fellow scum lynched.

[Hiraki]

It's bad logic. It was L-1.

[Does Bo Know]

I also just realized it's Hiraki, not Hikari.

But yes, as Hiraki stated, it's bad logic. L-1 this early in a game is a terrible stance, since one person can instantly hammer Jack and he wouldn't have a chance to defend himself. And if Jack can't defend himself, my vote goes back on.

[Quilford]

Brundibar:

Jack's already on L-1?

Unvote

. I don't wanna risk a hammer.

Jack, give reasons why we shouldn't vote you. If your reasons don't please me, I'll simply put a vote back on you.

Ninja'd by Hikari! Argh...but still. Please give valid reasons why we should lynch you right now.

So maybe this is completely bad logic, but it seems to me that Bo might be pulling his vote off Jack if they are both scum, and Bo is trying to protect Jack now that it looks like he might actually get lynched. He may have put his vote in early to take some suspicion off of himself, but now that it's getting serious he doesn't want his fellow scum lynched.

...

Okay, I know this is your first game online, ever. But you've been here since the 5th. You've read a couple of other games. Surely you would've realized from reading those games that unvoting at L-1 is a perfectly legitimate thing to do? Surely you've browsed the wiki, and found out the definitions of common terms such as "bussed"? And surely you've read Hiraki's "IC Notes" post? In which he points out that it is always a good idea to unvote at L-1:

This goes to both town and scum, an easy way to get town-cred is to unvote, and allow the person to claim at L-2.

Your post is, once again, a flimsy attempt to push suspicion off yourself and onto somebody else. You're not even confident in posting it. In addition, you seem to be backpedaling hard (see the post linked above for an example). And all that is the tip of the iceberg, but most of the other stuff I'm worried about people are questioning already.

FoS: Brundibar

Everyone:

Could you provide us with a list of your top three scum candidates in order from most to least scummy? Mine:

brundibar

Jack Forman

Martini

Keeping my vote where it is until Jack posts.

[Quilford]

@Nobody Special: Could we please have a dead player QuickTopic? Just in advance.

[martini]

So maybe this is completely bad logic, but it seems to me that Bo might be pulling his vote off Jack if they are both scum, and Bo is trying to protect Jack now that it looks like he might actually get lynched. He may have put his vote in early to take some suspicion off of himself, but now that it's getting serious he doesn't want his fellow scum lynched.

This sounds to me like like "Oh look, I think I found a reason Bo is suspicious, but just blame it on bad logic if I'm wrong"

But um. Just because one newbie makes more bad posts than the other newbie doesn't mean that the newbie making more bad posts is scum.

Defense noted.

Indeed, it doesn't necessarily make the newbie scum. It does, however, make it more likely. You seem to be implying that a newbie making less bad posts is more likely scum, which confuses me.
So, do you still think brundibar is scum? Because from post 100 it looks like you just did an 180.

I would like some explanation from jack about his post, though.

and brundibar, what do you think about jack?

as far as scum goes I think brundibar, jack and (less so) hiraki are suspicious, but I would like to see how they respond.

[Does Bo Know]

I believe that Hiraki means that if Newbie A makes more newbie posts than Newbie B, that doesn't mean that Newbie A is scum. By "bad", I'm under the assumption that means "newbie." Perhaps it would've been better to use different words, Plague/Hiraki?

[brundibar]

So maybe this is completely bad logic, but it seems to me that Bo might be pulling his vote off Jack if they are both scum, and Bo is trying to protect Jack now that it looks like he might actually get lynched. He may have put his vote in early to take some suspicion off of himself, but now that it's getting serious he doesn't want his fellow scum lynched.

This sounds to me like like "Oh look, I think I found a reason Bo is suspicious, but just blame it on bad logic if I'm wrong"

It was more of a "It looks slightly suspicious to me, what do you guys think?" type of thought than a "Let's try and put blame on Bo!" thing.

I think Shift brings up a lot of good points about Jack, but I'm weary of voting for him at this point if it will put him at L-1 this early in the day.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.05

Jack Forman - 3 - Quilford, Hiraki, Shift
brundibar - 1 - theplague42
martini - 1 - Jack Forman

Not Voting: martini, [Moonstruck], brundibar, Does Bo Know

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline: April 8.

V/LA: ...

@Nobody Special: Could we please have a dead player QuickTopic? Just in advance.

Sure. Do you anticipate being dead?

[martini]

I believe that Hiraki means that if Newbie A makes more newbie posts than Newbie B, that doesn't mean that Newbie A is scum. By "bad", I'm under the assumption that means "newbie." Perhaps it would've been better to use different words, Plague/Hiraki?

Hmm, okay then, that seems reasonable. I would like one of them to confirm that, though.

It was more of a "It looks slightly suspicious to me, what do you guys think?" type of thought than a "Let's try and put blame on Bo!" thing.

Okay, but watch out with how you word these kind of things as they can be easily misinterpreted

I think Shift brings up a lot of good points about Jack, but I'm weary of voting for him at this point if it will put him at L-1 this early in the day.

sounds good, we don't want to quicklynch him.

[Hiraki]

I believe that Hiraki means that if Newbie A makes more newbie posts than Newbie B, that doesn't mean that Newbie A is scum. By "bad", I'm under the assumption that means "newbie." Perhaps it would've been better to use different words, Plague/Hiraki?

I don't see newbie posts. I just see bad posts.

[Hiraki]

So, do you still think brundibar is scum? Because from post 100 it looks like you just did an 180.

EWBOP(Edit By Way of Posting): No he's town. It was newbie rage. There's a possibility that he's scum, but we're not not lynching him today.

[Jack Forman]

First off I am tired of you guys saying my first few post were fluff when I was answering questions that people had posted in #16- Hiraki asked about experience and #24- the plague asked about time zones and number of post.

We are still in the RVS for the most part and Brundibar is most likely trying to get people to talk just like everyone else is doing. So you have very little evidence to vote Brundibar, but you vote him anyways. Why is it wrong for him to do it but it is ok for you to vote that way? You said you have use this before as scum, so since you are doing it again does this mean you are scum again?

My vote is 100% serious, and chances are that it's not changing anytime soon. Someone else will have to seriously mess up for my vote to go anywhere else today, or any day brundi is alive. He is being entirely hypocritical, has been throwing out the most random votes as one of his 3-4 FoS's while putting most of the pressure (flawed) on the others, and for the most part not helping town in anyway at all. I am dead serious when I say we've caught scum on Page 3. Minor suspicion goes to Jack if he's arguing that there's no more reason to vote Brundi than anyone Brundi is voting.

Shift I was not questioning you vote on Brundi, I was trying to tell the plague that Brundi vote was most likely RSV. I was not defending Brundi either, just saying his vote was RSV, you all made good points against Brundi I didn't feel the need to restate the points you guys had already made.
"It's pretty clear we're pretty much out of the RVS" is what you said in post#106, so are we or are we not done with RSV?? RSV is used to get more info out of people, witch is what everyone has been doing. Voting for people that are not posting is a way to apply pressure so we can get more info. That is what I was doing. So I am not saying that Brundi is not acting scummy, I was just trying to look at other people that I thought were being odd.

Alright. I've made my conclusions.

Unvote

Brundi is making newbietown mistakes. If he's scum, then GJ on the cover, because you're really making me doubt myself. For the moment though, we need better pressure on Jack.

Vote: Jack

But I think I am going to place my Vote:martini I don't know if any of you have seen it but it looks like he is lurking. Tell me if I am wrong, that is scummy.

Alright so you're going to place a vote on someone, but you're asking if your scumtell is a legitimate scumtell?

I was not asking if it was a scum tell I know it is a scum tell, I was trying to ask if any of you were seeing the same thing about him that I was, witch was scum lurking.

I will have more to say when I get back from taking my cat to the vet.

[Hiraki]

Fine then. You didn't have any other scummy reads? Lurking is quite a weak tell.

[theplague42]

Top Suspects

brundibar
Jack Forman

These two are pretty equally suspicious. I don't see newbie town in brundibar's posts, but I'm rethinking my view on Jack especially with his last couple posts.

Quilford and Hiraki are both town. Null or weak tells on the rest.

That unvote by DBK (my imposed abbreviation for Does Bo Know) is often a good idea, but I don't think it's necessary at this point. No scum would be stupid enough to hammer this early, and it's not LyLo or anything. It's not scummy, just unnecessary IMO.

As for Jack/brundi, I'm perfectly willing to fill up this wagon and get some reactions. In light of that, I'm going to

Vote: Jack Forman

and put him back to L-1. I'd like a claim.

[theplague42]

EWBOP(Edit By Way of Posting): No he's town. It was newbie rage. There's a possibility that he's scum,

but we're not not lynching him today.

So then we

are

lynching him?

In all seriousness, defense noted OMGUS-style.