Mini Normal 1133 - Mafia in Venice

[lewarcher82]

Thanks RC, since this was my first time as mod, I really appreciate what you wrote

[RedCoyote]

I mean it! This game was short, but it was fun. It was really exhilarating to get the double scumkill at least.

Gosh, you know, I love Mafia so much. I just wish I wasn't so bad at it. XD

[AGar]

Holy fuck, I did it?

I DID IT! WHEEEEEE!

I thought I was so screwed going into D2. Then the mass-claim actually worked perfectly in my favor.

I'll post more later, but right now I need to sleep.

[mozamis]

WELL PLAYED AGAR! A tour de force! I thought we had lost for sure, but you were awesome

[lewarcher82]

SIDENOTE: [in case the mafia qt will be revealed, I need to make one thing clear: even though on night 2 AGar first wrote he would kill ICE, he then PM'd me with his final decision, so his night kill was Erratus Apathos. So don't jump on your chairs, all was done according to the rules and no mistake was made by anyone: Errathus, and not ICE, was the night kill AGar submitted ]

[ICEninja]

Man so much went well for AGar. He was truly screwed going in to day 2, really. He decided to change the kill to Erratus away from me, who was protected, and then the mass claim...oh man. Looking at my "plan", I could have decided to inspect 1 of any 4 people. Had I chosen someone not AGar, town would have ASSUREDLY won. It would have gone exactly the same way as it did for Ythan, maemuki, or Space Pope.

Then with the 50/50 I had left, I chose the wrong lynch. Had everything, starting day 3, been completely randomized (and a good amount of it was), then AGar had a 1/8 chance of success. Some of that belongs to you man, but you got lucky and you know it.

I definitely played my role correctly, but I did a poor job of it. Part of it was luck, part of it was complacency. I didn't think it was possible for scum to have a role blocker, Godfather, AND a miller all. It just seemed like too much to mess with a cop than would be realistic.

I suppose I should have been wary when learning that Exilon was not a 1 shot vig. He wasn't even a compulsive vig, which means that town had 3 very strong power roles, so scum, I suppose, needed something to balance.

That being said, AGar managed to avoid suspicion from virtually everyone for virtually the entire game. I read his ISO, and simply couldn't find much to lynch him with, and there was plenty against Red. So you played well, and deserve a (lucky) win.

I agree with Red's sentiments for the mod, the game ran very smoothly. Thank you for modding.

Props again to Exilon for nailing the role blocker on night 1, that was vicious. Props again to Necessary Evil for saving me night 1. That was a great move. I wish I played my roll with as much success as you two did.

[Exilon]

Yeah, true, agar got a bit lucky, but not that much. the main problem with nailing scum day 1 /night 1 is that we are then left with very few options (we only get to analyze day 1 connections). On hindsight, I don't think the massclaim was that much of a great idea, specially considered that we relied TOO MUCH on the faith that there wasn't a godfather.
Not only did I call the godfather, though, I also called Agar on the dead QT, ah!
This was probably my best town game so far. Nailing scum day 1 and hitting scum while a vig was very good. suffice to say, though, pappums made that choise too easy
Props for everyone for their play, although there were a few facepalms, namely Klazam and, to an extent, Moz.
Also felt like Ythan was a bit more quiet and calm than usually, which, I have to say, raised some flags.
Lewarcher was a verygood mod =) everything went smoothly!

thanks everyone!

[Necessary Evil]

Holy fuck, I did it?

I DID IT! WHEEEEEE!

I thought I was so screwed going into D2. Then the mass-claim actually worked perfectly in my favor.

I'll post more later, but right now I need to sleep.

Alright. Sweet dreams, you bastard!

I don't think there was much we could have done. We just got outplayed.

[Erratus Apathos]

The doc should have protected the vig instead of the cop after massclaim, the vig is a better role even if the godfather is NK-immune.

Oh well. Come from behind victories are always enjoyable, even when you're on the other side.

[ICEninja]

The doc should have protected the vig instead of the cop after massclaim, the vig is a better role even if the godfather is NK-immune.

I touched on this earlier. Scum's only real hope of taking the game home was, honestly, to have that vig killed.

[Ythan]

Also felt like Ythan was a bit more quiet and calm than usually, which, I have to say, raised some flags.

This game had a great lineup! Thanks everyone for a good one.

And good effort Coyote.

[Necessary Evil]

The doc should have protected the vig instead of the cop after massclaim, the vig is a better role even if the godfather is NK-immune.

Oh well. Come from behind victories are always enjoyable, even when you're on the other side.

I thought I should have protected Ythan on night 3. I don't see vigs as all that valuable to town since they kill town players most of the time. How would a vig have been a threat to the mafia then?

[Ythan]

To say that vigs in general usually kill townies is not compelling. Especially to a vig.

[pappums rat]

hot damn, you are the man agar. damn well played, especially after the epic failure for us scums that was day 1. im not even going to count this as a win for me, posting twice and getting my sorry ass vigged is in no way a win.

[Erratus Apathos]

The doc should have protected the vig instead of the cop after massclaim, the vig is a better role even if the godfather is NK-immune.

Oh well. Come from behind victories are always enjoyable, even when you're on the other side.

I thought I should have protected Ythan on night 3. I don't see vigs as all that valuable to town since they kill town players most of the time. How would a vig have been a threat to the mafia then?

They kill suspicious town players, the ones you were going to lynch anyways. It's like having an extra lynch every night.

[Necessary Evil]

The doc should have protected the vig instead of the cop after massclaim, the vig is a better role even if the godfather is NK-immune.

Oh well. Come from behind victories are always enjoyable, even when you're on the other side.

I thought I should have protected Ythan on night 3. I don't see vigs as all that valuable to town since they kill town players most of the time. How would a vig have been a threat to the mafia then?

They kill suspicious town players, the ones you were going to lynch anyways. It's like having an extra lynch every night.

Yes, that's true. That's pretty much how I play a vig. Exilon's shots were practically perfect, so I probably should have valued him higher. I'm just saying that vig is a swingy role and can wreck the town pretty easily in the wrong hands. I'm still not getting why a vig was so detrimental to scum in that situation, though.

[Necessary Evil]

He can't even shoot on night 4.

[ICEninja]

He wouldn't have been alive by the end of night 4 though.

[ICEninja]

Actually if you saved him, yes he could have shot. With Exilon saved, AGar "cleared", we would have lynched Ythan with myself, Exilon, and NE still alive with Red. NE would have been night killed for sure after the doc save. That would leave myself, AGar, Exilon, and Red. Exilon can shoot either Red or AGar, and we're lylo with 2 actually confirmed town. For example, Exilon could have shot Red, and I would have lynched AGar over Exilon for incredibly obvious reasons. It wasn't an SK, and with the possibility of a Godfather, I would have definitely lynched AGar. I'm almost positive Exilon would have gone with it, as well.

That's yet another thing that went just right for scum haha.

[ICEninja]

Not that I'm blaming you, Evil, it was more my fault than yours. I'm just saying.

[Ythan]

In general, not accounting for the skill of the player who gets it, vig just ads a bit of randomness to the game and thus favors the weaker side. But a good vig should favor town.

[AGar]

@MOD: You can release the QT, I'm fine with it.

Ice, stop trying to upplay the luck factoring into this. Yeah, I got lucky with a few things - the massclaim broke in my favor and Exilon shooting Maemuki and not myself that night are the two big ones - but to be honest, this is probably one of the few scum games I considered a lost cause at D2 (LOST: S1 is the only other one that comes to mind... and that was lulz). I was staring down a 9:1 situation at best, with at least one doc out there, a likely cop and a killer who obviously knew what he was doing. You try playing that out as scum, then tell me how much luck goes into it.

You made the mistake of playing all of your cards on D3, and I took huge advantage of that. Red would have likely died the next night had you not proposed the massclaim. He's a player I know to be capable of excellent scumhunting and I was honestly worried about him coming around to my D1 bus. The town made the mistake as a collective of not forcing discussion on Days 4 and 5 when it was crucial to get information. I capitalized on that by remaining relatively silent and not having to commit myself to any reads, allowing my flexibility going into LYLO. Had I had to put down reads, it would've been tough to make a stretch towards RC-scum to actually put a vote down in LYLO. NE was almost predictably going to protect you to his grave, especially with you casting potential doubt on Exi as a potential SK.

TL;DR: Yes, there was a luck factor. But there were several moves I was able to capitalize on in order to propel town on the wrong track.

[lewarcher82]

Mafia QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/mpK2iakmTbA

[mozamis]

Yeah I'm not sure luck had much to do with it. No one suspected agar all game, and when all's said and done, that must be to his credit.

[AGar]

Oh, btw, Lew. Excellent job with this game.