NY129-Mafia on Werewolf Island! (Game Over)

[DemonHybrid]

@ Mod - About that prod list, Nero is a friend, and is having internet issues and more than likely will not respond to the prod. He'll have it fixed hopefully in the next few days.

Noted, got that before.

@RF I am honored. I never make anyone's town list.

@The Game. I forget who it was (implosion I think) but someone asked the players who are on the big bandwagons why they jumped on without any discussion.

I also asked what those players DID to come to the conclusion that either C-Worl or Pine are scum. I'm not interested in what RayFrost did to convince anyone, I'm interested in what YOU did to convince yourself that you made the right vote.

That's what I am waiting for right now.

[Nobody Special]

Yikes, prod recieved. A bad start for me, will catch up.

Oh, please. This is normal for you and you know it.

[SnakePlissken]

Could have sworn I VLA'd over the weekend, anyway prod dodge.

[C-Worl]

4. Not giving a shit if you die or live.

No. Nooooo. No. Why would you say this. This is NOT a townie's job even if vanilla, you do NOT know what C-worl's role is if C-worl is town, please explain why not giving a shit if you live or die is a towntell in any way shape or form.

FoS Rayfrost

It is not town's job, true. Town's job is to find scum. Whether you live or die in the process is unimportant, hence not giving a shit if you live or die. Scum need to be worried about living because they are a minority and each member loss is a major blow to their capacity to both influence the game and win. A single townie is not that important. Roles are not such overly powerful things that people need to play a hyper-survival game.

If you're scum, you

need

to stay alive. If you're town, you

need

to find scum. Staying alive for scum is a necessity, it is not so for town. This is a fat until lylo / mylo where the two goals are equivalent. You could be a NK immune sane cop, an it'll still be more important to find scum than it is to stay alive. The fact you suspect me over something like this is kinda hilarious, by the by.

tl;dr: You're wrong, I'm right, we're both town, move along.

Wrong. If a townie gets lynched then it gives the scum a free night kill and in this case there's been so much sheeping by so many people that it'll be hard to judge who were the scum on the wagon. Also, it helps the scum build up the ratio. One mislynch is ok right? Well then what about the next and the next? If you're town you should care about if you live or die because dieing via mislynch hurts the town. Also, certain roles make this equally true. Like bomb where the hammer gets killed (can work both for and against town but usually against since most mafia would be stupid to hammer), or forms of beloved princess which causes the next day phase to be skipped. As T-Bone said, your vote is your most powerful weapon and staying alive to use it is equally powerful. Also, you can't catch scum if you're dead.

[C-Worl]

What C-Worl is doing right now is scrambling. He's panicked and grasping at anything and everything that might be a lifeline. Instead of calmly reasoning his way out of a hole (which I regard as the proper Town response,) he's calling people on minor crap (see his lame case against Chronopie) and splitting hairs.

Calling a case lame without reasoning isn't helpful. If you think it's lame point out why it's lame.

[Pine]

I don't think it has much merit, and the merit it does have is weak. Like I said, you're grasping at straws to avoid the noose. How was that not clear?

[C-Worl]

I thought it did have merit. He was being hypocritical and he was sheeping.

[Lowell]

From the top:

1-32- random votes
33- ray votes C-worl, says he has scum read [-, like to share?]
44- ray promises evidence
55- jindori acts like a novice, doesn't vote, then votes, etc.
58- jindori joins c-worl wagon, with reasons [+]
84- NS/C-worl lead with 3 votes each
88- tclawren votes jindori on "gut", promises to change vote next post [-, then why this one??]
92- tclawren, as promised, unvotes, votes T-Bone [-, b/c of RV?]
103- NS/C-worl lead with 4 votes each
144- pine/c-worl lead with 8 votes each (13 needed to lynch)
197- c-worl leads with 9 votes, pine has 6
199- ray continues his press on c-worl
208- shift defends t-bone's "slip" [+]
220- c-worl leads with 10 votes, pine has 5
228- jindori inanely speculates on setup
232- krob votes chrono for bandwagon vote on pine [-, opportunism, there are 9 others there as well!]
273- implosion catches up, votes a "random lurker" [-, ?]
278- c-worl leads w/ 10 votes

Caught up. First, some scum:

tclawren

- His two posts on page four (88 and 92) both go after low-hanging fruit. First a newbie, then a switch to someone who showed up just long enough to RV. Why pretend these are real reasons when clearly it's just him messing around.

krob

- same problem. 232 is a bad post, and I get the sense he's happy to not comment on the leading wagons.

t-bone

- I agree with those who say his "slip" was nothing. That said, his reaction was over-the-top and his general behavior isn't great.

c-worl

- Some of his earlier, 'jokier' posts had me convinced he was cool and casual in a town way. Now I'm thinking its affected, and lately I've been getting a "pissed off" vibe from him. If he were calm and town at first, he should be calm and town now. That he's less calm makes me think he's starting to worry about his safety.

Some town players:

ray

- driving force behind a major wagon as well as forward-moving force generally.

jindori

- I'm sold with his posts in the 220s that he is, in fact, newbie-town. I think he'd temper his overt curiosity if he were scum; instead he strikes me as someone unafraid of anything, with nothing to hide.

Digging a little deep for this vote, maybe, but let's see if I can't start something interesting before I jump on c-worl-wagon like a sheep.

vote tclawren

[Pine]

I'm not sold on Ray, Lowell. I've got nothing on him (discarding the RVS shenanigans,) and the fact that he's posted so much and in such volume without raising even a little bit of suspicion just strikes me as TOO clean. That said, I've been accused for the same thing while playing Town. I'm just...wary...of drinking the RayFrost kool-aid.

Nice to see someone else who got rubbed the wrong way by tclawren, and who can articulate said suspicion better than I can.

[jindori]

Now rereading all the posts, i missed some of bristep posts and the fact his post against was a rv. That agression could just be excitement. Cleared for the time bieng still hasn't made town yet through.

[jindori]

List of town(since everyone seems to be listing)

RayFrost
Pine
Chronopie
gorrilla
shift
conspiracy

mafia

C worl
Krob

suspicious

T bone
tclawren
nacho

the rest are unkown

[tclawren]

@Lowell:I voted in my first post because I feel that it is a pretty good idea to have your vote on someone at all times. Without using your vote then you've wasted the biggest pressuring tool you have.

And you can call me dense, but I wasn't sure if T-bone's vote was an RV or not. That's why I voted. Was a lame reason probably, but i wasn't completely sure yet.

Also @Pine and all who may doubt Ray is town: If Ray is scum he is playing terribly. In a setup with confirmed opposing scumteams, you cannot stand out as scum. You have to appear simultaneously town-ish to not get lynched but not too town-ish to get NK-ed. And by the looks of it Ray will probably get NK-ed eventually since he is really pushing this game for the town.

[Pine]

Also @Pine and all who may doubt Ray is town: If Ray is scum he is playing terribly. In a setup with confirmed opposing scumteams, you cannot stand out as scum. You have to appear simultaneously town-ish to not get lynched but not too town-ish to get NK-ed. And by the looks of it Ray will probably get NK-ed eventually since he is really pushing this game for the town.

Pure WIFOM. And nothing else.

[DemonHybrid]

Nachomamma8 prodded.

[RayFrost]

I'm not sold on Ray, Lowell. I've got nothing on him (discarding the RVS shenanigans,) and the fact that he's posted so much and in such volume without raising even a little bit of suspicion just strikes me as TOO clean. That said, I've been accused for the same thing while playing Town. I'm just...wary...of drinking the RayFrost kool-aid.

Nice to see someone else who got rubbed the wrong way by tclawren, and who can articulate said suspicion better than I can.

C-Worl suspected me.

Aside from that, there's no real reason to experience paranoia. There's a difference between seeing that I'm obv town and simply confirming me as town in your min. Doing ne is fine, doing the other is not. You should be wary of giving me a pass, but if you think my play's town then my play's town.

[RayFrost]

Wrong. If a townie gets lynched then it gives the scum a free night kill and in this case there's been so much sheeping by so many people that it'll be hard to judge who were the scum on the wagon. Also, it helps the scum build up the ratio. One mislynch is ok right? Well then what about the next and the next? If you're town you should care about if you live or die because dieing via mislynch hurts the town. Also, certain roles make this equally true. Like bomb where the hammer gets killed (can work both for and against town but usually against since most mafia would be stupid to hammer), or forms of beloved princess which causes the next day phase to be skipped. As T-Bone said, your vote is your most powerful weapon and staying alive to use it is equally powerful. Also, you can't catch scum if you're dead.

Scum don't get a "free NK" out of a mislynch. There is much value in mislynches even though we are trying to lynch scum due to the information given by the reasons and the like from the voters in the wagon. The key for a townie is to not worry so much about the fact they are going to die in comparison to worrying about

who on the wagon is scum

and pointing it out. You catch scum for the length of time in which you are alive without fear of persecution for you know that your life is not some crucial thing: the death of the scum is. Those that experience a fear of death early on are fools in thinking that they must stay alive for the town to have a victory. If you are scummy, keeping you around will deter the town from finding the actual scum, and the situation surrounding your lynch will provide a font of information.

Beloved is a role that should never exist. Bomb is something that is valuable, actually. It works like a pseudo vig in that town can also decide on who will hammer. If they refuse to do so, they confirm their own status as scum, allowing the lynch switch. Bomb is a neat role like that.

So yeah. I'm still right.

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE COUNT

Day 1 Vote Count (#12)

C-Worl - 9 (RayFrost, Seraphim, SnakePlissken, MaxKojote, Lucresia, [Moonstruck], Shift, tclawren, jindori) L-4
Pine - 5 (bristep123, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8, Chronopie, Nero Cain)
Chronopie - 3 (T-Bone, kr0b, C-Worl)
tclawren - 1 (Lowell)
implosion - 1 (gorilla)
Lucresia - 1 (implosion)
kr0b - 1 (Pine)

Not voting - 3 (MrZepher, Nobody Special, Kise)

Seraphim is V/LA until Saturday, April 2nd.
Nero Cain is V/LA for a few days (unspecified amount of time).
implosion is V/LA from 3/28 until 4/1.
MrZepher is V/LA on the weekends.

The deadline for Day 1 is April 15th, 10:00 AM EDT. With 24 alive, it takes 13 to lynch and 12 to No Lynch.

[RayFrost]

Would like to know when NS plans on voting. Same for kise.

Would like more nacho lucresia zepher kise gorilla posts.

[Nobody Special]

Would like to know when NS plans on voting.

Waiting for things to develop. We have time.

I'll vote when I'm damned good and ready, thankyewverymuch.

I disagree with tclawren that a vote is useless if it's not cast. I still have the power of threatening to vote, which may come quite in handy if a particular wagon gets to L-1.

[RayFrost]

What "things" are you waiting for at this point? Plenty of "things" have "developed" in the "time" that we "have" so far.

[Lucresia]

I would like to point out some valid information or provide something useful to the town, but so far I have not really had any thoughts that haven't already been said. There isn't much to go on so far, but I will post a few of my thoughts. Jindori seems like a hyperactive noob, but I don't get scum vibes off of him. I also feel ray is most definitely town. He is taking a lead on a lot of the discussion. I do not think Pine seems scummy at the moment, but I don't have a vibe either way with him right now. Chronopie does not seem scummy to me either. I want to hear more from Kise, as I am thinking his lurking and beginning posts that were not any help whatsoever are leaning him towards scum on my scale.

PEdit: As I was writing this, C-Worl posted again, and it turns out I do have some original comments. What C-Worl is doing right now is scrambling. He's panicked and grasping at anything and everything that might be a lifeline. Instead of calmly reasoning his way out of a hole (which I regard as the proper Town response,) he's calling people on minor crap (see his lame case against Chronopie) and splitting hairs.

I originally voted for him out of the headache I got from reading the first page or two of posts. I felt like I was in a general or trade channel in some sort of mmorpg chat with a bunch of trolls.

I am however still happy with my vote on c-worl. I agree with the quote above and I think his emotional response tO being voted on earlier pages was a last stitch effort to gain sympathy and lose a few votes off his bandwagon.

[jindori]

NS is holding out his vote for a hero bonnie tyler style.
(Jokes lol)

[MrZepher]

So let's see.... Here's my list of reads. I'm going to take some time to go through ISO's to solidify reasoning before I commit to a vote (not that a vote is concrete or anything...)
I'll also have my thoughts on them posted with my read if I have any. Sorry in advance for the longer post...

Scum

Chronopie - Def my top scum read. I don't like your reaction to your vote, and then calling C-Worl's reply later a chainsaw defense. Methinks you're trying to hard to deflect attention

C-Worl

- It seemed like you just gave up after your initial attempts to defend yourself failed, but then you started to pick up your scumdar. Will def ISO. For now I don't think the case currently on you is enough to justify a lynch just yet. For now you're potential scum.

kr0b

- Hmmmm... Potential scum only because you stick out for some reason.

Null

Pine - Willing to give benefit of the doubt on first post. I've skipped pages before, I've just had the decency to catch myself before I posted
tclawren
implosion
Lucresia
Nobody Special - Slightly suspicious, no reason to suspect anything yet
Kise - UMMMM. WHAT?

Town

MrZepher - A real hot commodity, total stud, def obv town. (but all jokes aside...)
RayFrost- Slightly suspicious, but overall town read is bigger. Seemingly biggest scum hunter (but we will see)
jindori- Def newbtown. I feel that his tendency to focus his attention with OMGUSy posts could make him a liability later in the game though.

In any case, I'll have more time tomorrow to make an actual vote and all that hip jazz.

[jindori]

@ Mr zephyr how could it make me a liability just curious.

[C-Worl]

BC you're an idiot. That's why it makes you a liability.