NY129-Mafia on Werewolf Island! (Game Over)

[ConSpiracy]

Meta, can be a very powerful tool. Voting someone off it during late RVS is highly acceptable. Complaining about how annoying we are is alright since I'll admit I can be an ass most of the time.

Most of the time *cough*

This was an overreaction to a post from Pine that didn't actually look bad. Pine made valid points to try and wake me up but that didn't stop Conspiracy from essentially starting the Pine wagon. It's also a fun note that NS quickly followed Conspiracy by voting Pine with little info of his own.

Yes, pines reasoning was bad. You are trying to make me scummy by saying things that are stupid.

Was Pie's vote suspicious? Very. Does it make him Pine's buddy? No. Especially since your reason for voting Pine was full of holes. Also, fun to note that this is the second time he called for Frost to join his Pine wagon.

Yes it was suspicious and yes it seemed like a wonderful bus vote. Especially since my reason to vote Pine has been better than your vote for any one.

This is laughable considering how full of holes the T-Bone case was.

"
This is laughable because you didn't even understand what the post was about.

1.

How is T-Bone annoying?

2.

What does the other game have to do with this one?

3.

Why do you want to vote Chrono instead of Pine considering Pine still had more votes than Chrono?

4.

Why does T-Bone voting Chrono change your mind?

5.

What does that last line have anything to do with this game?

1. Calling us out for quicklynching and not readiing the thread.
2. He was rude to us in that game too.
3. Because I didn't really like the players that were hopping on the Pine train
4. I don't like following T-Bone, that may give him a good feeling.
5. That we need 13 to lynch, didn't you get that?

You've posted 6 times by the time you post this. Lurkers never help. At least spam gives us something to work on. You're basically giving town bad advice.

Because only you and jindori are posting, it is very hard to get any reads on anybody else. Spammers are even worse than lurkers.

Conspiracy will you stop lurking, prod dodging, and make a case on someone?

Will you stop spamming, making other people harder to read and make a good case on someone?

Anyway, that's Conspiracy, all 7 posts of him and people actually get onto me for lack of content?

Anyway, that's C-worl, 1.000.000 post of him like this and he still doesn't understand why there is a wagon on hiim?

I think I am taking back the thing about T-bone. I can be an ass, too, apparently.

And finally a wagon that I like very much:
UNVOTE: Pine
VOTE: SnakePlissken
I laugh at self-metaiing.

[DemonHybrid]

bristep123 prodded.

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE COUNT

Day 1 Vote Count (#17)

C-Worl - 9 (RayFrost, Seraphim, SnakePlissken, Eldritch Lord, Lucresia, tclawren, jindori, Chronopie, MrZepher) L-4
SnakePlissken - 4 (Shift, Kise, Nobody Special, ConSpiracy)
Pine - 3 (bristep123, Nachomamma8, Nero Cain)
Chronopie - 2 (T-Bone, kr0b)
tclawren - 2 (Lowell, C-Worl)
Lucresia - 1 (implosion)
kr0b - 1 (Pine)

Not voting - 2 (gorilla, RaudhrGarm)

Seraphim is V/LA until Saturday, April 2nd.
Nero Cain is V/LA for a few days (unspecified amount of time).
implosion is V/LA from 3/28 until 4/1.
MrZepher is V/LA on the weekends (Saturday and Sunday).
gorilla is V/LA until April 1st.

Those coming off of V/LA will have a 1 day leeway before I prod them.

Pick up the activity, everyone =(

The deadline for Day 1 is April 15th, 10:00 AM EDT. With 24 alive, it takes 13 to lynch and 12 to No Lynch.

[MrZepher]

Conspiracy will you stop lurking, prod dodging, and make a case on someone?

Will you stop spamming, making other people harder to read and make a good case on someone?

The first thing that I thought when I read this: If C-Worl is scum, a good thing to do would be to make it harder for reads on other people to be made. Then C-Worl has the advantage by being to exaggerate small things into "scum-tells".

Take that as you will.

Also, Snake's post 383 was just bad... I also fail to see how your next post justified what you said in any acceptable way.

[RaudhrGarm]

jindori

: First this:

i am thinking of jumping on the pine ban wagon but it strikes me as odd how fast the pine ban wagon built up votes so fast seems like some team work was involved maybe from the other scum.

Then a mere five minutes later this:

unvote c worl vote pine

why doesn't the bold butten work all the time it fraustrates me.

It looks like he saw a quickly forming bandwagon and made the compulsory "this is scum" post, before recognising possible team-mates on the wagon. Another

suspicious read.

Snake:

Hard to get a read on him, he's only made 6 posts. That said his vote on C-Worl is ridiculous. Slightly

scummy

reading at the moment.

tclawren:

I've got a

town

read off tclaw here, but as it's early, it could be wrong.

kr0b:

I'd vote for him just to see if he is scum or not. If so, this post pretty much clears up the case on C-Worl and Pine.
This post as well is suspicious as he criticises Pie for hopping on a wagon and not justifying his jump when he has done similarly...

I'd say scum.

[tclawren]

The only thing I really find scummy about Snake is his last post, where he says he plays the same every game. Which is silly. But that just might be arrogance on his part.

The "werewolf" claim is totally just reading comprehension fail for me, not necessarily scummy. Also, he's totally having connectivity issues right now, just check his recent posts. Nearly all of his recent posts have been in this game.

So to recap he is lurking. WHICH IS NOT SCUMMY. Only

active lurking

is scummy.

[jindori]

jindori

: First this:

i am thinking of jumping on the pine ban wagon but it strikes me as odd how fast the pine ban wagon built up votes so fast seems like some team work was involved maybe from the other scum.

Then a mere five minutes later this:

unvote c worl vote pine

why doesn't the bold butten work all the time it fraustrates me.

It looks like he saw a quickly forming bandwagon and made the compulsory "this is scum" post, before recognising possible team-mates on the wagon. Another suspicious read.

If you have a read of the the first post properly i pointed out that i thought pine was still scum at the time and other scum refers to the other team cause there are two teams.

[jindori]

Sorry bout hitting the submit was supposed to hit preview

Anyway tell me this if you were scum and your team all jumped on a wagon that everyone looked as scum would you even mention the possiblity that scum jumped on the wagon and then vote it yourself???

Also i was the first one to mention that pines wagon might be scummy because it built up to fast. post 149

[RayFrost]

So to recap he is lurking. WHICH IS NOT SCUMMY. Only

active lurking

is scummy.

No.

/not enough energy to explain this considering that I have just woken up

[DemonHybrid]

Lowell prodded. This is his 2nd prod out of 3.

[Eldritch Lord]

I'm still reading and catching up, this is a really long D1. I don't remember days being this long, but its been a while since I've played. There is an incoming analysis that I'll drop either tonight or tomorrow afternoon. Sorry for the delay boys, EL is on it.

[jindori]

The only thing I really find scummy about Snake is his last post, where he says he plays the same every game. Which is silly. But that just might be arrogance on his part.

The "werewolf" claim is totally just reading comprehension fail for me, not necessarily scummy. Also, he's totally having connectivity issues right now, just check his recent posts. Nearly all of his recent posts have been in this game.

So to recap he is lurking. WHICH IS NOT SCUMMY. Only

active lurking

is scummy.

Just noticed why did he say werewolf instead of scum seems like his telling us his role.

[tclawren]

The only thing I really find scummy about Snake is his last post, where he says he plays the same every game. Which is silly. But that just might be arrogance on his part.

The "werewolf" claim is totally just reading comprehension fail for me, not necessarily scummy. Also, he's totally having connectivity issues right now, just check his recent posts. Nearly all of his recent posts have been in this game.

So to recap he is lurking. WHICH IS NOT SCUMMY. Only

active lurking

is scummy.

Just noticed why did he say werewolf instead of scum seems like his telling us his role.

/facepalm

I thought I was being super clear that I was talking about the part where Snake says the exact same thing you are saying right now about C-Worl. Snake specifically calls C-Worl a werewolf because C-Worl used the term "CLAN".

[jindori]

Lol to tell the truth i just skim through the posts since theres that many. But i think your right i don't see how clan is a werewolf term but snake is still a bit suspicious through if you ask me.

[implosion]

Wallpost.

@Implosion: If you would still like comprehensive reasoning from me, I will be happy to provide it. PEdit: As I was writing this, C-Worl posted again, and it turns out I do have some original comments. What C-Worl is doing right now is scrambling. He's panicked and grasping at anything and everything that might be a lifeline. Instead of calmly reasoning his way out of a hole (which I regard as the proper Town response,) he's calling people on minor crap (see his lame case against Chronopie) and splitting hairs.

I disagree. I see C-worl's actions at this point as those of a townie, thinking they're going to be lynched, fighting and trying to give reads. Frankly, the more I look at C-Worl, the less I agree with the case on him.

If you're scum, you need to stay alive. If you're town, you need to find scum. Staying alive for scum is a necessity, it is not so for town. This is a fat until lylo / mylo where the two goals are equivalent. You could be a NK immune sane cop, an it'll still be more important to find scum than it is to stay alive. The fact you suspect me over something like this is kinda hilarious, by the by.

If you're a NK immune bulletproof cop, I think giving a shit whether you live or die would definitely be appropriate. Sure, the primary goal of a townie is to find scum. But first of all, if you're a power role, staying alive can help significantly with that primary goal... and second of all, being mislynched undeniably hurts the town. The method in which C-Worl may die right now is through lynching. C-Worl giving a shit whether or not he is lynched makes sense as town (it makes sense as scum too).

I agree with Ray's townlist, except possibly NS.

273- implosion catches up, votes a "random lurker" [-, ?]

I assume the minus means you don't like this? I didn't like any of the main wagons, so my vote was unlikely to have any strong lynch-causing effect, so I utilized it for pressure on a lurker. I can't vote for multiple lurkers, so I voted for the first one I happened to type.

Also @Pine and all who may doubt Ray is town: If Ray is scum he is playing terribly. In a setup with confirmed opposing scumteams, you cannot stand out as scum. You have to appear simultaneously town-ish to not get lynched but not too town-ish to get NK-ed. And by the looks of it Ray will probably get NK-ed eventually since he is really pushing this game for the town.

Pure WIFOM. And nothing else.

I don't see how this is WIFOM. WIFOM is one of the most misapplied terms in the mafia vocabulary - please explain how you see it as this. The argument actually appears valid. However, there are two legitimate flaws. First of all, if this is RayFrost's meta and he plays abnormally, he will appear scummy and be lynched. And second of all, it's conceivable in a multiball game that a scum faction (or both, who knows) could have a doctor. If this were the case, they wouldn't have to worry about having RF be nightkilled even if he appears towny. It's even possible that RF could be trying to attract the attention of a town doctor (I've done a similar thing as SK before, but that was in an epicmafia game I remember).

Now, that last sentence of mine actually

was

wifom. A person could be acting townish to attract protection - they could be acting townish because they are town - they could be doing it to look like town. These are all possibilities, so we use occam's razor and see that if a person is acting like town then they are most likely town.

I'm still undecided on whether RF is as huge of a townread as everyone else appears to think.

C-worl's scum. He can't change his desperately frustrated play. He's desperate and frustrated. I can understand: I get frustrated when people figure out I'm scum, too.

Is desperate, frustrated play

unique

to scum? No. In the case of at least many people on MS, if there is a large wagon on you on day one, you will become frustrated and in some cases desperate. After that, you have to look towards motivations, and I don't see scum motivations from C-Worl.

Yes, I'm blatantly defending C-Worl. I don't think he's mafia. Deal with it.

I have concluded that C-Worl should be today's lynch, and Chronopie should be who we go after tomorrow. I see scum team.

Don't try to call scumteams. Focus on one person at a time. Look at their flip. Use their flip to divine other players' alignments.

Trying to call the whole scumteam (or scumbuddies) on day one is bad.

...

Raud is town

...

Snake wagon > C-Worl wagon. C-Worl is town. Snake reads null-leaning-scum to me.

In order to put my vote somewhere useful:

Unvote, Vote: Snake

[Pine]

I can admit that I'm falling prey to a bit of tunnel vision on C-Worl, bolstered by personal dislike of him and his methods.

Regarding the question about WIFOM from tclawren: Saying "Oh, scum wouldn't do this" or "Town wouldn't do this" is always WIFOM, though perhaps our definitions differ. In a game this large, it is VERY likely that there's a Doctor, or at least some kind of protective role. It would behoove scum of -either- affiliation to be the local super-Townie, not only to gain protection, but also to deny that protection to their intended victim. Just because the WIFOM isn't obvious doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[jindori]

I think everyone gets tunnel vision about cworl. I mean my argument with him made me think he was scum but it's hard to tell the diffrence between a troll villy and scum. Snake would be the better lynch through. Also i think i know what the important news rayfrost wants to tell us is. But i rather he said it so i know if wrong or right, i geuss it has something to do with his role.

Also raudergramn sounds like town, but rauds a sub and the person raud subbed was alot. So we don't have alot to work on, whilte the reverse is true for raud. But the way raud is generally active off the bat points me towards town.

I noticed there's a lot of WIFOM going around and i think i am a guilty of of this in some my posts to. So i think we should try to stick to hard facts now to determine things.

[jindori]

Unvote Cworl

[Nachomamma8]

I am lurking until Saturday. I have not gotten any sleep at all so nothing I'm gonna say will make sense anyways, so saving catchup tiem until then.

[jindori]

Also do you guys mind if i just call scum mafia. I'm used to the teams being called italian mafia and french candian mafia(probally a american idea the last one) it gets really confusing having to switch back and forth termonology.

[Nachomamma8]

dude i don't care. you can call the scum bastards for all i care.

[C-Worl]

Busy day yesterday, school now, I will get caught back up afterward.

PS, I skimmed the thread why is everyone voting for Snake?

[jindori]

Something to do with his vote on you it's pretty much confused me i don't know which role is which.

[kr0b]

Hey, sorry about the lack of activity. My internet disappeared for another four or five days (again)...

I'll catch up some point today providing it doesn't cut out again.

Mod: In case it does cut out again you may want to replace me. If it does I'll send a PM using my phone.

Noted. Just let me know if need be.

[gorilla]

hello friends

have survived my school week and am now catching up on the thread

making this post in case anyone wants to say anything to me specifically, ask me questions or just lavish me with attention