NY129-Mafia on Werewolf Island! (Game Over)

[Lowell]

vote tclaw

Maybe this time it will take off.

@c-worl- Not sure what jin was doing, but FTR I don't necessarily see engaging him afterwards as particularly scummy.

[DemonHybrid]

Minor rule change:

#4 has been changed to the following, to be more specific:

"4. Don't talk in real life about the game (meaning face-to-face, off-site communication, through any Instant Messenger clients or through e-mails, etc...basically, keep all talk about this game IN this thread.)"

No rule has been broken by anyone; a potential loophole was just brought to my attention.

[Nobody Special]

ConSpiracy, 3 scum teams is impossible...

No it isn't.

I know! Let's ask the mod!

@Mod:

Is it possible that this game includes more than two teams of anti-town factions?

[DemonHybrid]

According to the Normal guidelines, it states that in Normal games, there cannot be more than "two teams of anti-town factions and one Serial Killer" at a complete maximum. Minimally, there must be "at least one anti-town faction of two players". This game does not break Normal game guidelines, once again.

Normal game guidelines can be found here.

[Pine]

Well shit. Looks like I was just plain

wrong

.

UNVOTE: T-Bone

I need to re-evaluate things.

[Pine]

Wait, that doesn't actually rule out a Town-neutral party. Still need to re-evaluate, but unvote stands for nkw

[Chronopie]

Wow, just wow.

Since I last looked at the thread: Kise obvfakes a DK. Jind claims Werewolf?!? (Nice Pick Kise.), Gives us a line about Eastside Werewolves.
OP had flavour of

"Torn to Shreds and Shot Night 0!"

and has a red for mafia colour, as well as Purple 3P. So either "Shot" is SK and there's no Mafia, or Jind was BS'ing, as normal rules allow only two teams + SK max.
Jind gets mod-killed for claiming that his team has a watcher. (Or was it for a different reason?)

--

While I would rather have kept Jind around a little longer, to see who he incriminated as a buddy, Dead scum is dead.

--

Seeing as the VC was reset:
VOTE: C-worl

[C-Worl]

I'm gonna just state all the actions involving jindori that I read, I might mention possible outcomes but I'll attempt to withhold my opinions, just so everyone will have this post as a reference.

Jindori started the game by saying he wouldn't vote, then Cain voted him, and Jindori quickly voted Cain. This could have been a quick gambit to distance early in case one flipped (like Jindori just did) or jindori might've jumped because he though Cain was eastside or some shit. Either way it's worth noting.

He then hopped on my bandwagon which is meh. I did post scummy at the beginning so he may have just figured I was eastside. (Or maybe I'm westside and I'm trying to distance) either way feel free to view it as you please.

tclawren's original vote was on jindori, not really sure how to interpret it, I already thought tc was antitown sooo, this could've just been more distancing, especially since he announced from the beginning that the vote wouldn't stay. Or it could be just a rvs/semi gut read as he described it. Feel free to decide for yourself.

Nobody Special was the first to defend jindori by callin him a newb, this was right after tc's vote. Which could be seen as a wolfslip defending his partner.

It's right after NS says this that tc unvotes for jindori, which I think is also worth noting.

Cain also unvoted Jindori attributing Jindori's newness as a possible factor for it.

Nacho's first list listed jindori as scum.

Jindori offers justification for his vote on Nero Cain well after everyone else had moved on to deciding between Pine and myself.

I then defend jindori for being a newb. Nobody Special quickly points out that he had done the same thing on previous pages.

Jindori talks about jumping on the Pine wagon but comments on how quickly it built up. He states that he thinks team work was involved in it's build up. He then proceeds to vote for Pine before anyone else posts.

RayFrost mentions jindori among the list of names that were not-good-posting.

Jindori jumps on T-Bone for what he perceived as a thirdpartyslip. He may have assumed T-Bone was EastSide. He then unvotes after the clusterfuck of arguing concerning that. Shift then argued Jin's case after Jin's unvote and Conspiracy defended Jin's case after Jin's unvote. More arguing continues between the 4 over this, which appeared as useless at first but honestly, is a bit eye opening now.

RayFrost says Jin is now goodposting but still in the wrong (about T-Bone)

Ray then gets involved in the argument, Shift labels Jin as misguided town.

I then vote for Jin. RF defends Jin. Jin votes me. Quote war begins.

T-Bone tells Jin not to rolefish.

NS once again defends Jin's newbness, this time for comparing him to a puppy.

Implosion also calls Jin obvtown. RF includes jin in his list o' townies.

Jin labels me as certain scum and announces kr0b as his only other scum read. Mentions bristep, nacho, and pine (considers pine townish)

Lowell points out jin acting like a novice in the beginning and then later points out jin's inane speculating of the setup. Wraps up by labeling jin newbtown.

List of town(since everyone seems to be listing)

RayFrost
Pine
Chronopie
gorrilla
shift
conspiracy

mafia

C worl
Krob

suspicious

T bone
tclawren
nacho

the rest are unkown

^ Had to quote this in it's entirety.

Zepher labels Jin newbtown but describes his play style as a future liability. I agree in a pretty mean way. Pine roughly agrees while calling jindori inexperienced.

I label jindori as newbtown when asked for reads on the wagons.

Jin notes my case on tc for having new information on it. He also asks me to make cases for Nacho and RF. Later he notes that my case on tc has made him think.

Kise notes that he originally thought of Jin as a good vote but he doesn't remember why. This actually leads to an argument between them involving jin's townreads going after each other. Jin tells us to look at Kise before lynching me.

T-Bone tells me and jindori to post less. Jin defends mine and his posts as being productive (with the exclusion of my personal insults)

After some arguing with Kise and me pointing out a flaw in Jin's logic he posts that Pine doesn't seem scummy, snake and kr0b do, he's starting to doubt whether I'm mafia.

Raud calls jin on being suspicious. Jin notes Raud for seeming town and says Snake would be a better lynch than me.

Jin calls TC impatient.

In #496 Jin finally votes Snake.

Cain comments on Jin being new but sees his vote on t-bone as opportunistic. Jin argues since t-bone didn't have a wagon.

Jin posts an argument to T-Bone, I'm having trouble understanding so I'll just quote it.

SLAMMA HAMMA!

Now seriously, where's our prophet to come and speak for us? He decree there shalt not be thyme hammer or he shall smite thyne hammer insertion in thy rear orifices.

Pretty lame to bring C-Worl this close to a lynch. C-Worl if you are town why are you voting? And if your plan is to lure scum by bringing yourself to L-1, why are you announcing it? Only town will hammer now.

If you're town you should unvote. Not unvoting is an admission of guilt.

sorry to split this in two posts. this is just a more detailed version of my last post which i rushed.

@tbone if only town would hammer why did you not hammer down on him. You also seem to be pushing hard for someone else to vote him. I don't think this a townie thing to do trying to lure and bait someone into looking scummy. Cause if he rolls town you can claim the guy he voted him was scum, if he rolls scum mafia werewolf sk or just a general bastard you will just claim you were right. That post put you in a good postion anyway cworl roles. fos @ tbone
If you really believed this you would voted him yourself that he was scum.

btw i still think cworl is a vanilla ville. This is my last defence of cworl i can't really be stuffed after this and pine will lynch him anyway.

Then, well, shit gets real. Kise provokes Jin into a claim and instead of fake claiming, Jin actually claims being wolf. After which, Kise drops suspicion of Jindori.

Pine and Tc are the first two to post, basically trying to figure out wtf just happened.

This inspires Tc to unvote, Pine initially goes after Jin, Tc finally votes jin. Jin continues to announce suspicion of Tc after confirming his wolf alignment. Then, Pine unvotes and starts going after Tc, this comes after Jin suggests that they might be masoned to each other. RF also suggests leaving jin alive. Jin foses T-Bone stated that he sees him as East Side. Raud votes jin. Pwerox votes jin. Jin votes t-bone. Eldrich then mentions the jindori case but then deflects with a case on me. Note, he never once stated a suspicion of me until the jindori claim, and I was still the biggest wagon at the time of the jindori claim.

Pine switches from TC to T-Bone, following Jin's lead.Gorilla votes for jin. Jin and T-Bone argue. Jin votes for himself.

Mod kills Jin confirming his claim.

The rest you can interpret from there.

[RaudhrGarm]

Plus more than 9000 town points for C-Worl after that post. Pretty much summarises a lot of what has happened.

[Chronopie]

Plus more than 9000 town points for C-Worl after that post. Pretty much summarises a lot of what has happened.

This.

UNVOTE: C-worl

hmm, I'll withhold my Vote for now.

[C-Worl]

Also, as for Eldrich's argument. Vtoing claimed antitown also helps find the rest of their faction. Anyone in jin's faction should have been smart enough to bus the wagon after Jin opened his mouth. Therefore we could look at those who voted him. Also, we also get to see who defended against his wagon (I believe that would be you)

[tclawren]

OK, a lot has happened but my mind is still running around in circles, so give me a little bit more to comment on everything. However there is a little thing I do want to say now since my mind is pretty settled on it right now.

RE: people wanting Jin alive another day, especially Kise, Pine, and EL.

EL: Has solid logical reasoning behind his actions. His "defense" made sense and was pro-town.

Pine: ...hmmm... The biggest supporter of the idea that the WSW weren't anti-town. He was trying to convince us of this for pages. I'm leaning scum. I will reread his iso later.

Kise: His posts didn't make a lot of sense last night... his reasoning seemed to be similar to Pine's with a little bit of remorse sprinkled in. He's also not a werewolf. He might be maf though, haven't made up my mind yet.

[Eldritch Lord]

Also, as for Eldritch's argument. Vtoing claimed antitown also helps find the rest of their faction. Anyone in jin's faction should have been smart enough to bus the wagon after Jin opened his mouth. Therefore we could look at those who voted him. Also, we also get to see who defended against his wagon (I believe that would be you)

False comparison and straw-man. I said we should keep him alive for a day, not that nobody should vote for him. I did not "defend against his wagon," all I did was post my personal reasoning in order to reinforce the suggestion that the most logical course of action for town would be to leave him alive for the day.

The line,

"Anyone in jin's faction should have been smart enough to bus the wagon after Jin opened his mouth"

doesn't even need explanation for why its poor logic, I think if you re-read it you'll see what I'm getting at here.

Your other post is a summary, but doesn't really address my concern with the way you initially defended yourself. You gain town points for it, but my vote will stand, though there are others I have scum-reads on, my read on you remains among the strongest and I think there's a lot more to be learned through your death than anyone else's.

[C-Worl]

My other post wasn't about me at all. It was meant to be a summary of everything involving jin. Meaning it wasn't supposed to address your concerns with how I initially defended myself. Also, you're ignoring the fact that I pointed out how I wasn't suspicious in your eyes until the jindori stuff blew up. And also how I was the biggest wagon at the time. Also, considering your points on me were posted by others, I feel no need to answer you about them considering that they are not your own ideas.

[Eldritch Lord]

My other post wasn't about me at all. It was meant to be a summary of everything involving jin. Meaning it wasn't supposed to address your concerns with how I initially defended myself. Also, you're ignoring the fact that I pointed out how I wasn't suspicious in your eyes until the jindori stuff blew up. And also how I was the biggest wagon at the time. Also, considering your points on me were posted by others, I feel no need to answer you about them considering that they are not your own ideas.

They are my impressions, my case was made against you in my first "real" post in the game (my second, after the one in which I acknowledge that I am replacing in) so you've been suspicious in my eyes ever since I joined the game. The points I've made about your inability to defend yourself and your scum-like admissions of defeat and appeals to emotion have been pointed out by other players, which is why you should address them (even if it means giving meta examples of your playstyle), because

those opinions are

not

mine alone

. (Though they are my collective read on you, in ISO -- my method of catching up in games I replace into involves reading each player in ISO and trying my best to ignore posts which

interpret

the actions of other players, and then review the case I build

including

the interpretations of other players...so the read is more or less

ALL

me minus information I deem to recently brought to light to repeat or reasoning which is voided by a more intelligent/observant player's response.)

[Pine]

Summaries without posting much new information are fantastic ways for scum to make it look like they're contributing without actually helping. The fact that the recounting of several pages is somewhat biased and retold in the manner that best serves C-Worl Doesnt help. Taking advantage of the fact that some (lazy) players will skim the last few pages but read his version of what happened makes it downright scummy.

-9000 town points to Raud for supporting the scum tactic.

VOTE: C-Worl Still a good lynch. Parking it here until I make up my mind about T-Bone after full reread.

[Eldritch Lord]

Interesting, Pine, that you would call out Raud for giving C-Worl credit for his "contribution" but not me. I don't like it when people buddy up to me. #MinorPost

[Kise]

Dude, of course I was going to support jindori. He claimed within 2-3 minutes of me faking the DK and made a concise post, which told me he had this on his mind a long time ago and didn't just make it up. And, in appreciation for... well, tricking him like that... I wanted to keep him alive and let the eastside group (I'm now not sure if it's more wolves or mafia, who knows) decide what to do with him instead of using our lynch on him.

HE DID NOT CLAIM THE NEED TO KILL TOWN. He said he needed to survive though... And he fucking flips goon to boot, so now I know he's not a hunter like he claimed. In that case, I, UNLIKE YOU PINE, don't sympathize for the westside since it's quite clear NOW that they were a mafia group all along.

So, sorry to everyone - mainly jindori because... anyway. But I am sorry to the rest of you for not believing he was scum. Goon = obvscum to me now. So we can confirm that this is a normal game. I was tripping anyway because I forgot that hunter is the same thing as lyncher, and that isn't a role for normal games..... although Jebus got away with putting a lyncher and cult in a game one year.

RayFrost is obvpartner... think about it: Jindori lists him as the top town read very early on. Then when RF claims PGO, jindori says he thought he was a watcher all of a sudden. I of course theorized that they said this in a QT so I questioned jindori. But his continued, "RF is not with me, he's the crazy gunman" and eventual "we haz wolf watcher" pretty much make it evident that Ray INDEED was planning a watcher fake claim... Or IS the watcher and that's why jindori thought he should've/would've/could've claimed town watcher instead of town PGO.

Vote: RayFrost

Cam is VT FFS. But for future reference, DO NOT SELF VOTE. You look town as hell for it combined with my experience playing with you, but self-voting plays against your win condition. (I'm thinking jindori's wolf watcher claim is what sealed his modkill) So, yeah, Cam's town. Let's get obvbuddy #2. I thought Conspiracy was obvbuddy #1 but who knows. I'm more sure of RF.

[Kise]

I don't even know how to react to this shit.

Jindori: were ou being honest or joking in your post?

Here, he's trying to coach jindori in thread so he can save face. No way was jindori joking at that point. Due to RF coaching in thread, it's possible that scum cannot daytalk.

I suggest we leave indori alive for a night or two. Tcwalren's scummy, but c-worl and snakeplissken are scum.

Guys, please decide between these two. They are both scum, but I have no certainty that they are mafia or otherwise.

Let jindori live 2 nights, and also decide on lynching either c-worl or snake...

[Pine]

@EL: Your support wasn't unconditional, and you sensibly pointed out that it was a summary and didn't actually answer any questions. Raud practically creamed his pants, his support was so effusive.

[Pine]

@Mod

: Once and for all, according to your understanding of the Normal game parameters, would the Town-neutral wolf pack adhere to the rules alongside two anti-Town scum groups?

Like I said, in any Normal

at maximum

, there can be two anti-town factions and a serial killer in one game; one anti-town faction with at least 2 players in it

at minimum

, and anything in between. Nothing else is allowed in a Normal game.

[Kise]

Pine, jindori flipped Goon.

....

GOON. Not survivor, not lyncher, not hunter, not neutral. GOON.

[Chronopie]

@Kise: If the west side ww's needed to outlast the east side w/e, a kill might have helped them do it. QED: Goon can still be neutral.

ofc I don't believe it myself, I say he was scum, and BS'ing on it. w/e.

[Kise]

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Goon

The wiki won't even let us know what Goon is - It redirects to mafia. There's no such thing as a town goon, just like there's no such thing as vanilla mafioso.

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE COUNT

Day 1 Vote Count (#27)

Pine - 3 (T-Bone, C-Worl, RaudhrGarm)
C-Worl - 3 (Eldritch Lord, ConSpiracy, Pine)
tclawren - 2 (Nero Cain, Lowell)
RayFrost - 1 (Kise)

Not voting - 14 (kr0b, RayFrost, SnakePlissken, Lucresia, gorilla, Nachomamma8, Nobody Special, Chronopie, Shift, implosion, MrZepher, Seraphim, tclawren, Powerrox93)

MrZepher is V/LA on the weekends (Saturday and Sunday).
Powerrox93 will be V/LA April 8th-9th.
SnakePlissken will be V/LA until Monday, April 4th.
Lucresia will be V/LA until Monday, April 4th.

Please let me know if the votecount is wrong.

The deadline for Day 1 is April 24th, 3:00 PM EDT. With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch and 12 to No Lynch.