NY129-Mafia on Werewolf Island! (Game Over)

[quadz08]

I think he meant the werewolves know the other werewolves, and the mafia knows the other mafia.

[singersigner]

Oh yeah, on second thoughts (i.e. re-reading the shitstorm that occured earlier)

I've come to the conclusion that Pine is misguided town

. UNVOTE: Pine

Sorry, a bit busy. I will aim to get on later, but I do think we need to draw the big lurkers out.

@Reck:

I've wanted Pine lynched since the jin affair

, but decided that Snake was a slightly better lynch than Pine after a while. However, with no better choice, I think I will

VOTE: Pine

Contradiction found. I want a lynch.

First post you say that Pine is town.

Second post you say that you've always wanted Pine dead.

How is this not a contradiction?

Misrep.

The second quote very explicitly says SINCE THE JIN AFFAIR (he even bolded it himself), which from my understanding, came after his initial "misguided town" read. The fact that tcl is ignoring Roud's explanation and trying to push it as some huge contradiction is beyond me, and in my opinion, super scummy.

[Reckamonic]

The thing is, they're both scum anyways.
So does the order really matter?

[Reckamonic]

I think he meant the werewolves know the other werewolves, and the mafia knows the other mafia.

ah, that would make sense <_<;

[quadz08]

@singer: .... derp. Good point, dearest.

[tclawren]

Oh yeah, on second thoughts (i.e. re-reading the shitstorm that occured earlier)

I've come to the conclusion that Pine is misguided town

. UNVOTE: Pine

Sorry, a bit busy. I will aim to get on later, but I do think we need to draw the big lurkers out.

@Reck:

I've wanted Pine lynched since the jin affair

, but decided that Snake was a slightly better lynch than Pine after a while. However, with no better choice, I think I will

VOTE: Pine

Contradiction found. I want a lynch.

First post you say that Pine is town.

Second post you say that you've always wanted Pine dead.

How is this not a contradiction?

Misrep.

The second quote very explicitly says SINCE THE JIN AFFAIR (he even bolded it himself), which from my understanding, came after his initial "misguided town" read. The fact that tcl is ignoring Roud's explanation and trying to push it as some huge contradiction is beyond me, and in my opinion, super scummy.

The jin shit went down about 5 pages before the first post. Try again.

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE COUNT

Day 2 Vote Count (#5)

RaudhrGarm - 5 (tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8)
tclawren - 4 (Kise, Lowell, Eldritch Lord, singersigner)
ConSpiracy - 1 (Powerrox93)
Kise - 1 (Pine)
Pine - 1 (RaudhrGarm)

Not voting - 7 (Charlie, gorilla, T-Bone, Chronopie, implosion, MrZepher, quadz08)

T-Bone is V/LA until Monday, April 18th.
MrZepher is V/LA until Monday, April 18th.

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to lynch and 10 to No Lynch. Deadline is May 7th, 2011 at 5:00 PM EDT.

[singersigner]

I'ma need quotes from both of you. Don't make me do your homework for you.

[tclawren]

Jin's modkill post. #625
Raud votes Pine. #663
Raud rereads and declares Pine misguided town. #768
Raud says he has

always wanted

a pine lynch. Post#1081


That's the timeline. Any other questions?

[RaudhrGarm]

Nope, I said that I wanted one, not always wanted. Derp. Unfortunately I don't see him being lynched today either. UNVOTE: Pine

Oh, and before you go back to one of my earlier posts where I said I thought you were town, let me make this clear:
Opinions can change.
Reads of people can change.
VOTE: tclawren

[implosion]

~wallpost~

@Kise: I want a full claim and your actions last night now.

Kise is still probably town.

vote kise

So, you're voting someone who claimed in a very vague manner (at least IMO) to be a killing role who was killing Reck, and who - more importantly - has a history of gambiting (see: jindori) for not having killed Reck? Frankly, I'm pretty sure Kise is town. This looks like Kise's town play to me.

Obvious would be that he actually is Vig and was role-blocked by scum because they foresaw it being pushed by some members of the town. Which would mean that they could kill two birds with one stone (free lynch and removal of a serious threat).

Or it could just be a gambit. A roleblocker is possible too, but meh.

Now, all this said, Kise should claim whether or not he is a killing role in a non-gambitty way. The confusion that he's causing is obfuscating his alignment, and (IMO) distracting from other, better lynch candidates. Well, at least for me. And actually, he might not have claimed to be a killing role vaguely, I might just remember it like that because he's already been gambiting.

Fair enough. Oh, and was anybody else intrigued by Nero Cain's decision to laugh at Eldritch's hammer of Snake? Seemed a little out of place.

NC flipped town.

Alternatively, scum-Kise could just do nothing and claim on D2 to have visited him, causing us to lynch Reck on D2. If Reck is PGO and Kise Town, we lose a Town PR.

Um, forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't it usually bad if town power roles die for no reason and nothing is gained whatsoever from their death?

Also, I just thought of something.

@Reckamonic: what's your kill flavor?

.... what? You don't want to lynch the person who you think is an SK? You realize that an SK is anti-town, yes? Therefore leaving an SK alive is BAD? I don't think town should trust an SK to do a vig's job, ever, and that's the only reason I can think of that you wouldn't want to lynch someone you think is an SK. If we pick someone who's a mafioso or a werewolf, then fine, leave the SK. But if he's the biggest read you have? You vote the shit out of him. Period.

After this, you proceed to vote CS. Why, exactly, does CS saying this make him more likely to be scum than town? Sure, wanting to leave a serial killer alive is nonsensical because they have their own agenda. But why would scum be more likely to say something like this than town?

Why should we trust that the SK is doing a vig's work? SK's is antitown, and you want to keep them alive for the reason to compensate for a lost of town PR's?! Yes the SK can hit mafia/werewolves but have you forgotten that it can hit town as well?! The risks is so high that making a gamble like this isn't worth it.

Woo. Good job sheeping flawed reasoning.

FoS

- and same question to you as to quadz.

The horror... the horror.

Substantive post is substantive.

hi

conspiracy's post is a dumb post but not convincingly a scum post

speculating on wtf Kise meant before kise has posted is dumb

am a bit lost, but pine, tclawren, and powerrux are all pretty scummy imo

anyway have work to do, later

:goodposting:

Kise said he was going to visit Reck, who is claimed PGO. If both were Town scum would have no reason to RB Kise. Scum would have just let Kise go in for the kill and the two of them would have cross killed each other. Therefore by both of them being alive there's only two scenarios I see.

Flaw - if both are town, they might want to roleblock Kise because A, he's unpredictable and B, he's a claimed killing role and RBing him would cause chaos.

@Chrono's math: tl;dr but you're town.

My opinion on whether to lynch the SK or not: we don't know if they're an SK or not. Why lynch them if they aren't suspicious for another reason? Even if there was a semiconfirmed SK, I honestly would be neutral on whether or not to kill them. It can be argued both ways, and depends on both whether the SK is going after scum and whether they'd be accurate at hitting scum.

VOTE: Powerrox
I really, really hate his one post so far today. It screams scum to me.

tclaw wagon might be good. Ambivalent about Raud, will develop that read through the day.

[Powerrox93]

@implosion: I'm so freaking tiered of not being able to say my opinion for the reason that someone said the thing I was going to say while I was sleeping!

[quadz08]

@Reck:

I've wanted Pine lynched since the jin affair

, but decided that Snake was a slightly better lynch than Pine after a while. However, with no better choice, I think I will

VOTE: Pine

Nope, I said that I wanted one, not always wanted.

Derp. Unfortunately I don't see him being lynched today either. UNVOTE: Pine

Oh, and before you go back to one of my earlier posts where I said I thought you were town, let me make this clear:
Opinions can change.
Reads of people can change.
VOTE: tclawren

Raud. Dude. Come ON.

@TC: thanks for the research. Timeline is appreciated for clarity's sake.

After this, you proceed to vote CS. Why, exactly, does CS saying this make him more likely to be scum than town? Sure, wanting to leave a serial killer alive is nonsensical because they have their own agenda. But why would scum be more likely to say something like this than town?

My earlier thought process (the one I was utilizing when that post was made) made me think it would be bad for town to leave an SK alive. Therefore, saying that we should leave the SK alive was a scummy thing to say.

[gorilla]

Lynch everyone who is not town aligned

that should be the most discussion the SK gets today

imp that post of mine was objectively pretty weak, if you agree with my reads, cool, but otherwise it just looks like you are trying to buddy me

VOTE: RaudhrGarm

reads & opinions can change, yes, but you still haven't offered any reasons for why your read changed and saying you've wanted him lynched since "the jin affair" completely ignores that you wrote him off as town at one point. to me it really looks like you're squirming right now. you need to justify your reads changing or i'm going to assume you're BSing and get you lynched

[Charlie]

Read up to page 11.

[T-Bone]

Jin's modkill post. #625
Raud votes Pine. #663
Raud rereads and declares Pine misguided town. #768
Raud says he has

always wanted

a pine lynch. Post#1081


That's the timeline. Any other questions?

This.

Vote: Ruadhrgarm

You'd be fine without #768. Saying that Pine is misguided town, well that reads to me as "I need to make an excuse to get on the Snake wagon".

[RaudhrGarm]

This, this andthis. He can't seem to make his mind up on who he wants to target. Clearly directs the post at me, yet when I answer it "nope, I'm talking to C-worl".

Also this for those of you who think I suddenly changed my thoughts on Pine. Then there's this which is what led to Pine wanting to get me lynched mainly. [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2953791] This comes[/url 6 posts after [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2952369]this[url/]. Wow, contradiction much?

Finally there's something un-Pine related that's been bugging me:

Mod: If two kill actions were targeted at the same player, would the flavor show both actions?

The only reason I can see for somebody asking this is if they had a killing role and had targeted one of the people who turned up dead. I.E. they're curious as to whether they were role-blocked or not.

FoS

:quadz08

[RaudhrGarm]

@T-Bone, the problem with that is that when I put my vote on Snake, his wagon had a massive one vote.

[ConSpiracy]

BTW, quadz and powerrox just earned a lot of scumpoints for this. They try to form an easy wagon without any substance.

Explain how what I did was scummy? I felt that saying Kise is the SK and then leaving him alive was an anti-town idea. Calling it "without substance" is also a misrep.

Soo, I wanted to answer this, when implosion ninja'd me with this. (I appreciate you helping me, but I have my own voice/posts you know)
Let's bring it up:

After this, you proceed to vote CS. Why, exactly, does CS saying this make him more likely to be scum than town? Sure, wanting to leave a serial killer alive is nonsensical because they have their own agenda. But why would scum be more likely to say something like this than town?

My earlier thought process (the one I was utilizing when that post was made) made me think it would be bad for town to leave an SK alive. Therefore, saying that we should leave the SK alive was a scummy thing to say.

I can barely see that as a reason to vote for someone. (Trying to get out of WIFOM as much as possible, but it has to be said anyway)
How the hell is leaving a SK alive scummy? Give me a not far stretched reason why I would keep a SK alive.

[T-Bone]

@T-Bone, the problem with that is that when I put my vote on Snake, his wagon had a massive one vote.

Not entirely true. At that point the votes had been reset. There were more on the Snake wagon before the Modkill.

[RaudhrGarm]

I had not been paying attention to the wagon at that point, if you remember I was on the jin one. The only other notable wagon I can remember at that point was the C-Worl one, which iirc was at L-1.

[Reckamonic]

Why do you care, Implosion?

[DemonHybrid]

I've been informed of something after speaking with my back-up mod.

If two killers target the same player, all kill flavors should be shown at the same time regardless of the time the action was sent, the type of kill, etc. since according to Natural Action Resolution, all kills happen simultaneously. In that light, multiple kill flavors would be shown and I retract my previous statement.

With that in mind, Night 1's flips do not need to be changed. Carry on.

[Eldritch Lord]

conspiracy's post is a dumb post but not convincingly a scum post

I read ConSpiracy's post the same way: Stupid as shit. But the people who jumped on it right off the bat are sticking out as scummier, to me, than his post.

It seems like a classic case of jumping on a stupid/easy post. Especially if you consider the wealth of other information available in a 45 page D2 game to vote somebody so quickly on a post as stupid as that, ignoring all your other reads, is scummy.

[Eldritch Lord]

The second quote very explicitly says SINCE THE JIN AFFAIR (he even bolded it himself), which from my understanding, came after his initial "misguided town" read. The fact that tcl is ignoring Roud's explanation and trying to push it as some huge contradiction is beyond me, and in my opinion, super scummy.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.