130.Mirror Mafia - Game Over

[Ctorj49]

Also, I'm not a big typer. Being new to ms, I should let you know that off the bat. This is as long as my posts get.

okay

seeing as this is your first post since your RVS vote, care to share some of your thoughts and reads with us?

what are the 3 scummiest things you've seen so far?

Being new to the MS world (which is VERY different to the mafia games I'm used to participating), I find these 3 things suspicious though I will admit they are more culture-shock points on my end:
1. Listing a table to see who's scummiest. This is a game of wits and instinct. No math equation in the world will tell you who's scum. period.
2. Insisting someone is scum for sure ON DAY ONE WITH NO NIGHT ONE! Seriously, how can anyone be 100% sure?

I know that's only 2. That's what I got so far. Everything else is just trying to get a feel for people's playing styles.

[pappums rat]

^
People throw around accusations all the time, sometimes because they actually do think a person is scummy, and sometimes just to see how people will respond. There is nothing scummy about insisting someone is scum on Day 1.

[Tasky]

VOTECOUNT 1.7

Cecily (5/11): Twistedspoon, Thor665, Nocmen, Pine, Furcolow
Bub Bidderskins (4/11): evilpacman18, Magister Ludi, Ion67, farside22
Pine (3/11): Bub Bidderskins, Cecily, pappums rat
Twistedspoon (2/11): Caboose, flinter
Ctorj49 (2/11): Acronach, Zombeh-Pug
Acronach (1/11): Gollum
Gollum (1/11): Calcifer
pappums rat (1/11): Zdenek


Not Voting (2): TheJakalope, Ctorj49

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch.

Base-Time ends 29.04.2011, 22:00 CET

[Acronach]

Also, I'm not a big typer. Being new to ms, I should let you know that off the bat. This is as long as my posts get.

okay

seeing as this is your first post since your RVS vote, care to share some of your thoughts and reads with us?

what are the 3 scummiest things you've seen so far?

Being new to the MS world (which is VERY different to the mafia games I'm used to participating), I find these 3 things suspicious though I will admit they are more culture-shock points on my end:
1. Listing a table to see who's scummiest. This is a game of wits and instinct. No math equation in the world will tell you who's scum. period.
2. Insisting someone is scum for sure ON DAY ONE WITH NO NIGHT ONE! Seriously, how can anyone be 100% sure?

I know that's only 2. That's what I got so far. Everything else is just trying to get a feel for people's playing styles.

epicmafia? if so, could you link your profile please?

[Cecily]

I'm here. Long weekend and even longer day of homework today. I'll try and keep up and post something useful tomorrow.

[evilpacman18]

pappums rat is confirmed town. No scum replaces out with a wall of final opinions.

[Thor665]

I'm here. Long weekend and even longer day of homework today. I'll try and keep up and post something useful tomorrow.

Why ruin your perfect record now?

@evilpacman - that's an awfully simplistic way to look at it, however, I'll agree that slot is no longer in the bottom half of my reads. Confirmed though? Lol - no.

@Caboose
@flinter

What's up with that Twisted wagon? I've got a town read there, what's the scum case?

@Gollum - why are you still on Acro?

[Acronach]

I'm here. Long weekend and even longer day of homework today. I'll try and keep up and post something useful tomorrow.

@Gollum - why are you still on Acro?

this so hard

[Acronach]

hurrr, without the cecily quote

[flinter]

Thank you for only asking me one question, guys. But furcolow, if people are gone for 4 days, it would really be appreciated if you didn't type up walls

Needless to say, I skimmed most of the pages for now. I saw some anti lurker action, which seems great, but in my experience is also a great place for scum to hide. People who aren't here much aren't defending themselves. It can be proven, just by counting posts, but we all know there is no certain way by which you find scum. I should check who of the people on the acronach wagon are also voting because of lurking now.

I'd also like to add that Ludi's influence on the game is very small. His questions allowed him to sit back, and I would've been fine with that if his interpretation would actually result in a vote. Even if the questions themselves didn't give anything good, that should be the sign that you need to search somewhere else.

FoS Ludi

As for the question, Thor, I really didn't know why my vote was there anymore. I forgot about the game mostly. I had a scumread on Calcifer, which was about pacman's claim, but that was all that was left. When I reread the post, I know I followed someone (I would have to reread that) onto that wagon, who had spotted that Twisted used Evilpacman as an authority for his townieness, which is bad argumentation and clear manipulation.

More tomorrow (I hope), and goodnight.

[Magister Ludi]

Actually, it did help support my vote, which I explained in the second half of that post, so I don't understand you FOS.

There needs to be more action in this game. If no one is willing to lynch Bub, as his wagon has stalled out it appears, perhaps from Vla issues, I am willing to move. But does no one else see what I see?

[Nocmen]

I agree with Thor, and I'm willing to support a zdenek lynch today too.

[Furcolow]

Alright, Flinter, I'll stop making walls if you explain to me why it's not pro-town to do so.

[pappums rat]

Wall posts are not pro-town because they are hard to read and usually contain a lot of unnecessary stuff that can obscure the main point of the post. Many people will just skim wall posts as a result of this. It is best to say what you need to say in as few words as is necessary, and to be concise. Wall posts can also easily be used by scum to make it seem like they have more to say than they actually do.

[pappums rat]

confirm vote: pine

That is the second time today I have caught him lurking in this thread. He has had plenty of opportunity to get some opinions together. The only thing he has contributed at all was his cecily vote. I think he is avoiding this game. Wagon, ho!

[Zdenek]

<<<It would be far easier to list the things which Gollum has done that are town, rather than the quite extensive list of things making them scum. Seriously, look at Gollum's posts, and tell me, with a straight face, that it's pro-town play. I DARE you to.>>>

More than that: Gollum is confirmed scum by VCA; a Gollum-scum lynch would also create someone else who's confirmed town by VCA. And if SOMEHOW Gollum is town, said person would instead by confirmed-scum.
In other words, we get a guaranteed scum flip with Gollum, or the other person, and if we get the scum first, the other is confirmed-town.

Well, I agree that Gollum has been scummy, but he voted Acronach early, and has left his vote there and he also hasn't been active in almost a week, so I don't see how VCA confirms him as scum or how him flipping scum confirms anyone as town. Could you explain that last point please.

So, I'd prefer not explaining my reasons in more detail, but I'm quite convinced that Gollum, Zdenek, and Farside contains 2-3 scum, and that lynching them will give us the rest of the scumteam, regardless of their flip.

Assuming there are two scum in the group, then there are three scenarios.Who is the scum team in each case? It would be better if you would explain your reasons, but if you are still unwilling to do that, at least give us the names.

MrTrow's replacing out post was unhelpful. However, I mostly agree with pacman, that just doing something like this is fairly townie, so

Unvote

I continue to find Nocmen scummy. In addition to the things I have already pointed out, here he expresses concern about Calcifer:

Calcifer's post 132: A list of who he thinks is scum and town, with out reasoning behind much of that. But for a lot of it, I'm concerned due to the fact that many of them seem as repeats of the popular opinion at the time.

However despite these concerns he is willing to lynch me today for what appears to be no reason.

I'm willing to support a zdenek lynch today too.

Vote Nocmen

[flinter]

I'm at school, so no catchup post yet, but this is too much fun too pass. I think I might have some time later for that promised analysis of the acronach wagon and lurkervotes as that should be a quick job.

@furc: I was gone, so now I have to read up. And I really don't have time for walls which tell me little. It already helps if you have a concise conclusion (so I can skip the rest when I'm in a hurry), but it would be even better if you didn't post things in a long way when they can be short.

@Ludi. My excuses, I wasn't aware at that point that you were already on Bud. Read through your explanation of your table, saw a lot of words below it where keywords indicated that you weren't sure of anything, saw no vote and quickly skimmed the next post

Now to the fun part:

I agree with Thor, and I'm willing to support a zdenek lynch today too.

However despite these concerns he is willing to lynch me today for what appears to be no reason.

I'm willing to support a zdenek lynch today too.

Vote Nocmen

He misquoted Nocmen, quite intentionally. One can argue whether following someone is good play, but obviously there are reasons that Nocmen is following. By cutting exactly that part of the sentence off where Nocmen points to where the reasons are (in one of Thor's posts), Zdenek creates the illusion that Nocmen is an insane scum who votes people for no reason at all.

And then he votes Nocmen, who indicated he might vote Zdenek. I think the term pre-emptive OMGUS applies. (voting the person who said he would vote you, but didn't yet do it).

The spoon tried to make himself look town, but this is some obvious manipulation too.

vote Zdenek

[pappums rat]

Unvote
Vote: Zdenek

I saw Zdenek do that exact same thing as scum in Mini 1105, cutting off a person's quote like that to give it a different meaning than what it should have had. I am more confident that Zde is scum over Pine atm, but I still have my eye on Pine.

[farside22]

flinter: I get your point on ZD but I disagree. I find Nocmen not giving reason's and this is the second time I caught him just floating by without explain things. Buddying up to town is also a #1 scum tell in my book

I agree with Thor, and I'm willing to support a zdenek lynch today too.

What do you agree with and why.

unvote:
vote: Nocmen

[Calcifer]

I'm quite tired right now, but I should be awake in a couple of hours or so, hopefully back with a vengeance. Will give my thoughts on the game, in an interesting way--
By looking at the people being voted, and explaining why they do/don't make a good wagon, in multiple ways.

It'll be time-consuming, so I might not finish it today. But, oh, trust me, it'll be worth the wait.

In the mean time,

Unvote, Vote: Zdenek

. Looks like this'll get more support than a Gollum lynch. :/

[Zdenek]

Flinter, pappum's rat, show me the quote where Thor gives a reason for finding me suspicious.

[flinter]

Zdenek, you are completely right. Thor followed Calcifers read in stead of giving reasons.

It does seem like a technicality though, seen that you strawmanned Nocmen in quite an obvious way, followed by an OMGUS like vote. I find it quite telling that you don't reply to those accusations, but need to point out that "Thor never had reasons". Thor only had a preference for lynching you.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek, you are completely right. Thor followed Calcifers read in stead of giving reasons.

It does seem like a technicality though, seen that you strawmanned Nocmen in quite an obvious way, followed by an OMGUS like vote. I find it quite telling that you don't reply to those accusations, but need to point out that "Thor never had reasons". Thor only had a preference for lynching you.

There is no strawman here, I said that he appears to be voting me for no reason, which as far as I can tell is correct. Also, it is not OMGUS, since I've expressed suspicion of him before.

[Calcifer]

Alright. I'm more awake, now. (Note: I worked bottom-up on the list here.)
Cecily (5/11): Twistedspoon, Thor665, Nocmen, Pine, Furcolow <--Admittedly, this and Bub will be hard (since they're neither reads strong enough to be on the town-side of the spectrum), but I have to do it.
Bub Bidderskins (4/11): evilpacman18, Magister Ludi, Ion67, farside22 <--This, too.
Pine (3/11): Bub Bidderskins, Cecily, pappums rat <--I can explain in great detail why this is a bad wagon.
Twistedspoon (2/11): Caboose, flinter <--This one I definitely need to do, but it's not that high on my priority list.
Ctorj49 (2/11): Acronach, Zombeh-Pug <--This one I might still need to do. Will check with Bunnylover's (who replaced Zombeh) and Acro's votes to see.
Acronach (1/11): Gollum <--...Do I really even need to spell out why Acro's town to anyone? It's, uh, kinda incredibly obvious.
Gollum (1/11): Calcifer <--I promised I'd make the Gollum case; will work on it, but it'll take a while.
pappums rat (1/11): Zdenek <--For the record, Pappums rat replaced Trow, who I believe to be town. I believe Zdenek's vote has moved since then, so I won't explain why.


NAMES NOT LISTED WHICH I NEED:
-Farside22 <--Kinda low on my priority list; of the three, she's the weakest read.
-Nocmen. I, personally, don't have a good read on Nocmen. But at last check, Nacho does. So that means I'll have to play Devil's Advocate with this and explain why Nocmen is not our lynch.
-Zdenek. <--It's painfully obvious to me that he's scum, but it'll be my job to convince you.

And I begin.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Okay, my computer's fixed now and I'm back from V/LA. I'm getting caught up right now; expect some content this afternoon.