NY129-Mafia on Werewolf Island! (Game Over)

C-Worl · Post Post #1525 (ISO) » Sun May 01, 2011 6:37 pm

There are plenty of players who were on the wagon. What Mastin's saying is that there have to be atleast 1-2 scum on the wagons. Yes he was on the wagons but he's obviously going to rule himself out. He also ruled out several others whom he believed to be town. What you're doing T-Bone is called mudslinging (I think) Not everyone on a 10 person wagon can be scum, he's pointing out the ones that he believes are scum.

ISO · Post Post #1526 (ISO) » Sun May 01, 2011 6:40 pm

I realize that C-Worl and that's totally not the point.

C-Worl · Post Post #1527 (ISO) » Sun May 01, 2011 6:41 pm

mastin2 wrote: and point out a contradiction I just spotted in Gorilla's posts. (See if you can find it, first.)

Unvoting Powerrox bc no one else is but then voting Chronopie when no one else is?

C-Worl · Post Post #1528 (ISO) » Sun May 01, 2011 6:41 pm

T-Bone wrote:I realize that C-Worl and that's totally not the point.

Then what is the point?

C-Worl · Post Post #1529 (ISO) » Sun May 01, 2011 6:50 pm

... Just read Chronopie's ISO. 62 pages. He has 22 posts. He's just...

UNVOTE: TCLawren

VOTE: Chronopie

62 pages and hasn't done a damn thing to help. He tried to slide in unnoticed and vote Pine and he got caught. Tries to argue his way out of it and the argument sucked. Setup speculation which only distracts + complaining that the thread wasn't moving when he's only posted 17 times up to that point. CHRONOPIE NEEDS TO DIE!

mastin2 · Post Post #1530 (ISO) » Sun May 01, 2011 7:09 pm

Spoiler: T-Bone's Post Stuff

Gorilla wrote:mastin trying to connect me to jindori + pine is bunk, if you really think a scum player, even a newbscum player is going to put their entire team in a townlist then :/ is all I have to say in response. It's just as possible you'll see no real connections between jindori and his teammates when all is said and done.

Gorilla wrote:jindori listed kr0b as mafia. Not really feeling him as a potential partner.

A-hem. "We can't use anything Jindori says when it implicates me as scum, but we CAN use anything Jindori says when it implicates someone ELSE as scum!" That's essentially what Gorilla just said to me. HUGE contradiction, and EXTREMELY scummy.

For the record?

The Mod wrote:tclawren - 6 (implosion, ConSpiracy, Pine, C-Worl, Reckamonic, Chronopie) L-3

This wagon needs to die. Quickly.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got some effing reading to do.

I think I've conclusively shown my stances hold solid. (Heck, when I get caught up, I might go through the trouble of making cases on 'em. Nacho since you people have ignored that scum for too long, T-Bone since you can't seem to see the simple fact that he IS scum, and Gorilla because there's no current support there. Pine, eh, kinda explains itself, that read.

If you're not convinced by the time I've done the other three, I suppose I'd make one for Pine as well.)

Pine · Post Post #1531 (ISO) » Sun May 01, 2011 7:12 pm

C-Worl wrote:
T-Bone wrote:I realize that C-Worl and that's totally not the point.

Then what is the point?

The point is that he

manipulated

the VCA to cast guilt upon others, while not even mentioning that he also looks guilty by the same VCA. Town players would have mentioned it and ruled themselves out, but allowed other Townies to make an unbiased judgment.

Screw this.

Unvote

VOTE: Mastin2

mastin2 · Post Post #1532 (ISO) » Sun May 01, 2011 7:20 pm

Fine. TL;DR of why I haven't done the VCA?

Because I'm saving it.

FOR AFTER I

GET FREAKIN CAUGHT UP IN THE THREAD!

VCA is my greatest weapon. I've used it WHEN it implicated me. (First game as Calcifer. With those two scumteams. It was a Large Normal. I was doing VCA, and pointed out very accurately where the scum on the wagons were placed--I used it as evidence against other players, but if people read the posts carefully, they would've realized that the VCA actually was me essentially giving them my entire scumteam.

) I wrote a Guide on how to use it.

I save it for after I've gotten caught up, after I've established reads.

For one simple reason:

Reads gotten from VCA are rarely correct. Reads gotten from the thread, which are backed up by VCA are almost always correct.

The accusation of me not using it when it'd implicate me is BS. Since
-I'd use it anyway
-And I WILL use it. WHEN I FREAKIN NEED TO.
Now

stop distracting me!

I need to get work done on this game, and this BS argument on me about VCA has slowed that down.

(Know what? I'm going to ignore posts made by my scumreads. Since I know Pine is aware I am easily distracted, and might be trying to divert my attention from my read because he knows that it'll delay me.)

MrZepher · Post Post #1533 (ISO) » Sun May 01, 2011 7:26 pm

^Laid shit down.

/Just saying.

gorilla · Post Post #1534 (ISO) » Sun May 01, 2011 7:31 pm

C-Worl wrote:
mastin2 wrote: and point out a contradiction I just spotted in Gorilla's posts. (See if you can find it, first.)

Unvoting Powerrox bc no one else is but then voting Chronopie when no one else is?

I unvoted him because I didn't think I had a strong case. I do think I have a good point against Chronopie, and realized other players, including mrzepher, who I have a town read on, have expressed suspicion of him but it hasn't stuck around, so I figured I ought to try to start a wagon there. Yes, I changed my mind. I don't care how it makes me look. I think Chronopie is scum, I'm going to vote him.

gorilla · Post Post #1535 (ISO) » Sun May 01, 2011 7:37 pm

mastin2 wrote:
Gorilla wrote:jindori listed kr0b as mafia. Not really feeling him as a potential partner.
A-hem. "We can't use anything Jindori says when it implicates me as scum, but we CAN use anything Jindori says when it implicates someone ELSE as scum!" That's essentially what Gorilla just said to me. HUGE contradiction, and EXTREMELY scummy.

Nah actually I was implicating kr0b as not scummy on the basis of that. Theory being that newbie scum does not try to get their partners lynched. Same time, they aren't necessarily going to be listing their teammates as town because they want to avoid having connections between them and their scumbuddies. Not the same thing.

mastin2 · Post Post #1536 (ISO) » Sun May 01, 2011 7:58 pm

Now where did I leave off before I got distracted?

Ah, yes. Page 35.

The Mod wrote:SnakePlissken - 6 (implosion,
RaudhrGarm
,
Kise
, T-Bone, gorilla, MrZepher)

By now, the Snake wagon has grown to the point where it needs 2 scum, one from each faction. But no more.
This suggests
-T-Bone is one faction of scum.
-Gorilla is the other.
-Implosion, Kise, and Zepher are all town.

On to fourty.

mastin2 · Post Post #1537 (ISO) » Sun May 01, 2011 8:32 pm

Bussing.

The Mod wrote:SnakePlissken - 12 (
RaudhrGarm
,
Kise
, T-Bone, gorilla, MrZepher,
C-Worl
,
Lowell
, Nero Cain, ConSpiracy,
tclawren
, Nachomamma8,
Eldritch Lord
)

Lynch wagon. Since the last time I did my analysis, only thing changed is that now there should be 1-2 more scum on than before. Nacho's one of them.

To my knowledge, the whole extent of Pine's Lowell suspicion rests in a single post. Which is never followed through on...until I express suspicion on Pine. (Then again, still have a little under twenty pages of catch-up.)

Know what this is? The classic "buddy and two townies" scum list: scum lists their scumbuddy along with two other people not on their team as their choice for scum.

It's quite the clever strategy. (I picked it up from ZazieR when Zazie was coaching Haylen, in the Vengeful I modded.)

It's also incredibly obvious once you know to look for it.
Which I do.

On to 45. After which, I might retire for the night; I'm losing my coherence.

RaudhrGarm - 5 (

tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl

, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8)
^Guess what? We've finally got scum on this wagon. Four, can be all town. (Even if kinda doubtful.) Five, scum. Guaranteed.

By the end of 45, there's like three or four votes extra, but I'm too tired to figure out the exact number and who it is, and don't want to go to the next page (since if I do, I'll compulsively read it all) despite it almost-certainly having a votecount there. But it does seem like Garm has extra scum. And I know who.

Posting. I need to sleep before I continue, sorry.

ISO · Post Post #1538 (ISO) » Mon May 02, 2011 2:44 am

T-Bone is one of those rare individuals where it'd be shorter to list the amount of TOWN things he's done. I've seen his posts, and they're so scummy I can't believe he is still alive.

Yes this is very true. I can give you another meta since you love them so much. T-Bone always looks scummy. Ask Nacho, it's what allowed him to win our latest newbie game because no one would listen to T-Bone because he acts 'scummy'. As town I don't need to try to look town. Only scum need to try to look town.

The point is that he manipulated the VCA to cast guilt upon others, while not even mentioning that he also looks guilty by the same VCA. Town players would have mentioned it and ruled themselves out, but allowed other Townies to make an unbiased judgment.

Screw this.

Unvote
VOTE: Mastin2

Nice way to play into his hands Pine.

Fine. TL;DR of why I haven't done the VCA?

Because I'm saving it.

FOR AFTER I GET FREAKIN CAUGHT UP IN THE THREAD!

Hold on there cowboy, you read way past the VCA that I commented on you not doing and that's what I had a problem with. Nice of you to finally go back to it.

#1532. I know you're interested in meta, but defending your own meta is meaningless to the game. Any good mafia player has the same meta whether they are town or scum, and this doesn't tell me anything other than "Oh please stop attacking me this is how I play!"

(Know what? I'm going to ignore posts made by my scumreads. Since I know Pine is aware I am easily distracted, and might be trying to divert my attention from my read because he knows that it'll delay me.)

Absolutely. Ignore me as I continue to let you know where you're going wrong. This sounds like someone is giving up.

Continue to see what you want to see Mastin. Just as you can pull examples to support your wild theory the rest of us can pull examples to show you why you're wrong. Of course I bet you'll be the first to say "what you're pointing out is crap because you are scumz lol" so maybe I'm wasting my time with you. As long as you don't lead a mislynch, I'm okay with your 'meta'.

Charlie · Post Post #1539 (ISO) » Mon May 02, 2011 4:44 am

VOTE: mastin2

DemonHybrid · Post Post #1540 (ISO) » Mon May 02, 2011 5:10 am

VOTE COUNT

Day 3 Vote Count (#9)

tclawren - 4 (implosion, ConSpiracy, Reckamonic, Chronopie)
Charlie - 3 (T-Bone, Kise, Powerrox93)
Chronopie - 3 (gorilla, MrZepher, C-Worl)
MrZepher - 2 (Nachomamma8, tclawren)
mastin2 - 2 (Pine, Charlie)

Not voting - 2 (singersigner, mastin2)

As a reminder, keep in mind that ANY AND ALL prods do not go away after various game phases. If you need to be prodded and you have two prods, I will start looking for a replacement.

singersigner will be prodded on May 5th at Midnight, EDT.
ConSpiracy is V/LA from Monday, May 2nd to Thursday, May 5th.
Powerrox93 is V/LA from Thursday, May 12 to Sunday, May 15.

If I am missing anything this votecount, let me know.

Deadline is May 17th, 9:00 PM EDT. With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch and 8 to No Lynch.

tclawren · Post Post #1541 (ISO) » Mon May 02, 2011 7:15 am

T-Bone is flailing so bad right now. If there wasn't a wagon on Chronopie I would vote for him.
VOTE: Chronopie

C-Worl · Post Post #1542 (ISO) » Mon May 02, 2011 7:49 am

tclawren wrote:T-Bone is flailing so bad right now. If there wasn't a wagon on Chronopie I would vote for him.
VOTE: Chronopie

?

mastin2 · Post Post #1543 (ISO) » Mon May 02, 2011 7:53 am

Resuming from 46.

RaudhrGarm - 7 (

tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl

, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8, gorilla, T-Bone) L-3
^Huh? Coulda sworn that there were more on this wagon. Ah, well. Still contains 2-3 scum.

Which--in this case--is Nacho, Gorilla, and T-Bone.

RaudhrGarm - 8 (

tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl

, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8, gorilla, T-Bone, Pine) L-2
^Two scum from each faction! And look, they think they're spread out between two townies, when ironically, it's a solid block of scum! Other faction, Werewolf, Other faction, Werewolf!

tclawren - 6 (

Kise

,

Lowell, Eldritch Lord

, singersigner,

RaudhrGarm

,

Nacho,

)
^Oh, look, we've got scum!

RaudhrGarm - 6 (

tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl

, gorilla, T-Bone,

quadz08

) L-4
tclawren - 6 (

Kise

,

Lowell, Eldritch Lord

, singersigner,

RaudhrGarm

, Nachomamma8) L-4
^A more formal votecount. Between these wagons, we get four scum, two on each. Gorilla and T-Bone, Garm (technically) and Nacho.

Singer wrote:While I understand the logic behind saying this, bad play is bad play. Sometimes it just looks scummy, and now it's our job to figure out which is which (way to go).

This reminds me of active-lurking-scum-singer in a newbie game.

For the record? This was horrible reasoning:
If the town directs the SK kills, then they're essentially killing people who would have been lynched the next day: if they hit town, that's no different from a town mislynch. Horribad logic. The only time to lynch a SK is when 1: it's too close to lylo, or 2: they go off of their chain and kill someone they were not supposed to.

Otherwise, leashing the SK and directing the kills is effectively an extra town lynch.

I never saw anyone go,

Raud: Please Kill...

I saw some people whisper, "Raud's intending to kill these people, who I think are town." I never saw people actually DIRECTING the SK. Lots of debate, some fears of Raud killing the wrong person...
...But nobody suggesting who he SHOULD kill.
WTH, people. I'll be reading more into this debate, 'cause I'm clearly seeing scum speaking, here.

Powerrox93 · Post Post #1544 (ISO) » Mon May 02, 2011 7:56 am

tclawren wrote:T-Bone is flailing so bad right now. If there wasn't a wagon on Chronopie I would vote for him.
VOTE: Chronopie

This post generated only "?" in my head. Self-contradiction within just one post. Really scummy, but Charlie is pretty scummy as well now

tclawren · Post Post #1545 (ISO) » Mon May 02, 2011 7:58 am

*sigh*

I find T-bone scummy. I find Chronopie scummy (look to earlier in the day). T-bone has no wagon. Chronopie does. Vote goes to Chronopie.

mastin2 · Post Post #1546 (ISO) » Mon May 02, 2011 8:29 am

Like this. "Directing the SK can never go right! They'll always shoot wrong!" (No more so than the town. Heck, I've seen SKs who single-handedly wiped out almost the entire scumteam: the town kept mislynching and probably would've lost had it not been for the most-generous SK who shot almost every single scum. True, I've also seen SKs hit town, when they were being directed...but those targets were people who would've been mislynched, anyway, within a day or two.)

This. Oh so much this.

Pine: 3 (Kise, RaudhrGarm, C-Worl)

Sad. Not that they made this. That it didn't go through. It really shoulda. (If everyone had done this, like rational people should've, then Garm didn't need to be lynched. But noooooo, the scum were AFRAID of it...)

RaudhrGarm - 8 (

tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl

, gorilla, T-Bone,

quadz08, Lowell

, Pine) L-2
Gorilla, T-Bone, and Pine are the only people on this wagon who aren't pretty much confirmed town.

Kise wrote:SingSing is looking like scum all a sudden, why are you pushing buttons?

Valid.

Casual attitude from singer really is looking bad.

RaudhrGarm - 9 (

tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl

, gorilla, T-Bone,

quadz08, Lowell

, Pine, Chronopie) L-1
^To be honest, I'm not too fond of how few scum there are on here. Three. I'd expect one more. Might be Chrono.

Wants to lynch SK:

C-Worl
,
quadz
, gorilla,
lowell
,
powerrox
, T-Bone, Pine,
Reckmon, TC
, Chronopie

As Garm stated, this list contains serious scum. I see three. It's possible there's a fourth.

RaudhrGarm - 9 (

tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl

, gorilla, T-Bone,

Lowell

, Pine, Chronopie,

RaudhrGarm

) L-1
^Backs this up quite nicely.

Getting rid of a second lynch is totally town, too!

Linked, because this is among the most scummy reactions to the claim there is, ignoring the obvious logic behind letting the SK live on a leash. Number of kills at night is irrelevant. If you do the math, Garm acting as a second lynch actually SAVES lives.

Garm kept alive:
One town-choice death during the day.
One town-choice death during the night.
Two scum-choice dead during the night.

End result: two obv-town dead, two suspects dead.
Repeat.
Four obv-town dead, four suspects dead.

Garm killed:
One town-choice dead during the day.
Two scum-choice dead during the night.
End result: two obv-town dead, one suspect dead.
Repeat.
Four obv-town dead, and only two suspects dead.

Essentially, Garm could've doubled our efficiency.

Gorilla's Charlie vote looked bad. However...

T-Bone wrote:^^reason?

Might be "why are you voting for my buddy?"

:goodposting:

That's through 54. I think I can get caught up in one final sweep.

mastin2 · Post Post #1547 (ISO) » Mon May 02, 2011 9:02 am

Scumz.

Remember when I first came into the game, and thought that Gorilla wasn't a good lynch? It was because of this. Gorilla's correct about the speed of the wagon being alarming. Jumping ahead to the votecount:
Charlie - 4.5 (

Kise

, ConSpiracy,

C-Worl, Powerrox93

,

Gorilla

)
This might be evidence of Conspiracy scum, but I'm not sold on this wagon having more than one scum. (Gorilla.)

C-Worl - 2 (

Reckamonic

, MrZepher,

Lowell

, Pine)
^Guess who the scum here is?

Blatant bandwagoning.

LFT. (QFT, only linked.

)

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and guess that C-worl being able to guess the code means it has something to do with their combined off-site experience, something common there which MSers don't know about.

Irony.

tclawren - 5 (implosion, ConSpiracy, Pine,

C-Worl, Reckamonic

) L-4
^Guess where the scum are? No more than two at this point, but I have this sneaking suspicion it's only one. Anyone want to venture a guess as to who?

Scumz.

Hey mafias or werewolves, will you kill Charlie tonight? kthx...

Nah, we can just leave Charlie to the SKOHWAITNOWECAN'TCAUSEYOULYNCHEDHIM!

Liking this post.

Tclaw's scumlist wrote:gorilla
T-Bone
Nachomamma8
Chronopie
MrZepher

Upon review, remarkably accurate.

tclawren - 8 (implosion, ConSpiracy, Pine,

C-Worl, Reckamonic

, Chronopie, MrZepher,

Kise

) L-1
^I'm really concerned, now. I've only got one scumread on this wagon; I'd expect at least two.

This is through 59. I don't think there's not much more to comment on from there which I haven't done already.

Reckamonic · Post Post #1548 (ISO) » Mon May 02, 2011 9:17 am

V/LA, shit has gone down and needs to be worked out.

Noted.

mastin2 · Post Post #1549 (ISO) » Mon May 02, 2011 9:22 am

I can't decide if this is bussing, going after an easy mislynch, or a combination of the two (bussing an easily-lynched partner). Also, note how T-Bone is selectively scum-hunting.
He rules out kr0b/Charlie being a member of the other scumteam, and mentions specifically the werewolves.

T-Bone wrote:#1532. I know you're interested in meta, but defending your own meta is meaningless to the game.

I'm not defending my meta as being town. I'm pointing out that you're attacking my playstyle, things I do every game which are quite null. And anyone who's played with me will observe that every scumtell you listed against me is just my style. (Unfortunately, it would appear two of the people who could most back me up--Pine and Nacho--are scum, so they probably won't.)

Also, T-Bone's reliance on Nacho is a clear link between 'em.

This sounds like someone is giving up.

Nope. Just was waiting until I had finished my read (which I have, now) before paying attention to the people clearly trying to distract me.

The Mod wrote:tclawren - 4 (implosion, ConSpiracy, Reckamonic, Chronopie)
Charlie - 3 (T-Bone, Kise, Powerrox93)
Chronopie - 3 (gorilla, MrZepher, C-Worl)
MrZepher - 2 (Nachomamma8, tclawren)
mastin2 - 2 (Pine, Charlie)

By Lorthia, you guys suck. All of these wagons are Horribad.

TClaw--might as well be confirmed-town.
Zepher--very-doubtfully scum.
Me--obviously not scum.

Charlie&Chrono: Admittedly?
It's possible either are.
Possible. But I am not confident enough in either of them to be the fourth scum to lay down a vote. Instead, let's get some real scum lynched.

Vote: T-Bone

.

There. Now we have a winning wagon!