Charlie wrote:Verbrosity is scummy.
Conciceness is pro town.
Hate to tell you guys, but Charlie's not completely wrong, here. Just a little mistaken.
Verbosity is anti-town. Unfortunately, I am one of the most verbose players on the site; everyone knows nobody Walls like I do. It's not something I'm exactly proud of; it's part of who I am. And even though I attempt to be concise (which I know is pro-town), I am really, REALLY bad at it.
It's not "scummy". It's not a scum-tell. It's anti-town, in that if you wall too much, it's not exactly helpful for the town. So, Charlie--while wrong in thinking it's scummy--was at least on the right thought pattern.
(Please don't ask me to explain the difference between Scummy, Scum-Tells, and Anti-Town. Just realize that the three are NOT one and the same. Everyone in every game does something scummy, some players are always anti-town, etc.)
To those doubting Charlie is scum:
Tell me, who makes sense as a buddy for Charlie?
If you think Charlie's scum, what team is Charlie on?
Who are his buddies?
Can you answer that?
Can you tell me who Charlie's one or two (depending on which team) buddies have been?
...No?
...Yeah, I thought not.
Simply put, Charlie's town because he makes no freakin' sense as being scum on EITHER team.
Bad-town, ironically anti-town, perhaps quite scummy town...
...But town, nonetheless.
Zepher wrote:If somebody is scummy, and a good portion of people agree with that, then how is it helpful to the town to try to push for a different wagon?
Because scummy != scum. C-worl has been scummy, but is pretty much confirmed town. Tclaw was wagoned to L-1 for being scummy, yet is pretty much confirmed town. Kise and Reckamonic have both had wagons on 'em 'cause they've both done scummy things, but they're still pretty much confirmed town.
Chronopie has been scummy. Yes. Is he scum? ...Possibly. But not probably. Sure, he's, like, my # 4 suspect or so. Which, indeed, means that he's more likely scum than most of the players alive.
...But he's not even close to likely enough for me to want him dead above all others. Above T-Bone, above Nacho, above Pine. All three of those I'd rather have dead before Chronopie.
It's helpful to push another wagon, because Chronopie is a weak wagon, full of weak suspicions, full of people semi-agreeing with people who made a half-case against Chronopie, a case they semi-knew wasn't too strong in the first place.
Charlie's even worse that way.
It's helpful to push another wagon, because this other wagon (T-Bone) is actually on scum.
Charlie's a bit of an idiot, but he's idiot-town.
Chrono's possible scum, but not extremely probable scum.
Neither should be the lynch, today.
tclawren - 3 (implosion, ConSpiracy, Reckamonic)
^Implosion has posted that he's preoccupied, but there's no excuses from these other two. Chronopie was correct when he mentioned in a game with two factions, having a two-person neighborhood means both neighbors are town. I've even seen it in previous Large Normal games, so can back this up. THIS WAGON NEEDS TO DIE, YESTERDAY!
Chronopie - 3 (gorilla, MrZepher, tclawren)
^I will not support a lynch on Chronopie. These votes pretty much confirm Chronopie can't be a Werewolf, since Gorilla AND Zepher (both Werewolf suspects) are on him. My guess is that they're legitimately scumhunting and honestly think that Chronopie is a member of the other scum faction. Which--while possible--is not likely enough for me to support it.
Charlie - 3 (T-Bone, Kise, Powerrox93)
^Seriously. There's no town motivation in this wagon. Charlie might be bad town, but he's still town. This is painful to anyone who reads the interactions Charlie has with other people. I remember my read on Charlie, now. I remember what I saw in him:
I saw town.
That was my strong read. It wasn't a strong scumread. No, it was one of my strongest town-reads. Not very helpful town, admittedly, but still town, nonetheless.
mastin2 - 2 (Charlie, Pine)
^Charlie's an idiot, and Pine's scum.
T-Bone - 2 (mastin2, C-Worl)
^Winning wagon, here.
MrZepher - 1 (Nachomamma8)
^My guess is that Nacho's legitimately scumhunting here and thinks that Zepher is a werewolf.
Not voting - 2 (singersigner, Chronopie)
^These people need a vote.
Now, if you don't mind, I've got work to do.
