Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[PokerFace]

I think those were both mod errors by khan, starbuck. Given fonz previously voted nacho/DGB during that day not sure why CKD double voting error occured but he was already revealed as bomber so I don't see him as having any crazy double vote

Howmany scum do you guys think are left and or should mass claim be now? Fonz don't claim your roleblock before others claim

[Kublai Khan]

Mod: You haven't included Kmd in the Dead List in the 1st post.

Fixed.

- ckd's showing up on the werewolf555 bandwagon and in Players not voting. I figure this to be a mod error.

Mod: Can you clarify?

My mistake, curiouskarmadog should have been removed from the "not voting" group after he voted for werewolf555. Vote Counts have been fixed. Sorry for the confusion!

[Starbuck]

It's ok. Thanks for clearing it up. =)

[iamausername]

Final Day 3 Vote Count

inHimshallibe

- 6 - RedCoyote, iamausername,

yabbaguy

,

Kmd4390

, SpyreX/Fate, PokerFace

Final Day 4 Vote Count

Kmd4390

- 5 - iamausername, RedCoyote,

DrippingGoofball

, PokerFace, The Fonz

Yeah, I really doubt we've had town lynches the last couple of days with no scum at all on them. And given a) Cyberbob tunneling on RedCoyote come hell or high water; b) PokerFace constantly trying to draw attention to Cyberbob and CKD's distancing when Cyberbob was being wagoned yesterday, and c) I know my own alignment; Poker seems by far the better candidate.

VOTE: PokerFace

Other fun facts; most of the wagons I've started in this game have ultimately led to lynches, all of which have been town. This didn't happen with Cyberbob yesterday, and he turned out to be scum. It also didn't happen with SpyreX the day before. Definitely going to go back and re-examine how that one fell apart.

Now, we're massclaiming today, right?

[PokerFace]

I believe iamuser, me, red, and the fonz said we should mass claim today. Fate might have said we should too which would be majority. If you guys want me to go first I will. Fonz should obv go last. We can do popcorn or random or whatever after me if thats what you all want.

still I ain't normally played 21 player normal games so can you tell me the avg number of scum you would expect for this game type?

[Korlash]

hey look at that, bob actually flipped scum. Let me check something before I say something stupid... hmm hmmm... There's red throwing a monkey wrench into my idealistic retro memories of past days... But, no offense, I don't care about you here.

Vote: Iam

He votes Bob on a "lolz nice try" after I call him on his constant townie slaying, then ends up spearheading us to another town death.* Now he comes out with two candidates and picks Poker over Red... Just looking at his evidence given makes Red the better candidate yet he votes poker? The only question is are you bussing your buddy again for more cred?

*Disclaimer: I have not actually checked how much effort he had put into the KMD wagon so for all I know this is another Gorrad issue where he wasn't one of the pushers, just one of the sideline people...

Other fun facts; most of the wagons I've started in this game have ultimately led to lynches, all of which have been town. This didn't happen with Cyberbob yesterday, and he turned out to be scum. It also didn't happen with SpyreX the day before. Definitely going to go back and re-examine how that one fell apart.

Ha ha ha... You outright admit you voted Bob to make up for your constant townie killing. I hate when I'm right, it happens so rarely I have no idea how to act... I'll just eat a cookie...

and did you just admit Spy is scum?Before i jump to conclusions and start basking in the knowledge both of you are scum, did you mean when you started a wagon on spy or when spy started a wagon on Bob? I did a quick looksie through the vote counts and didn't see either one so it had to be relatively short and it could take me a while to figure out your meaning on my own.

[PokerFace]

Something to note. This is a bit far in advance but should game and things last that long

V/la June 2-6

[RedCoyote]

Don't make me choose between PF and username, Korlash.

Fonz, it's looking even worse for you now that you're absent.

[Fate]

Just gone done with finals and moving into a new place...cept mothers day week is hell at work so Monday is when ill get backto readin this thread.

[The Fonz]

- iamausername and RedCoyote are on every single lynch.

Not looking good RC, not looking good at all...

- The Fonz on both the KMD and DGB wagons. If he's claimed double voter and I haven't seen it, I apologize. I plan to read over his posts in a bit.

No, mod error, I clearly unvoted DGB to vote KMD due to deadline.

Now, we're massclaiming today, right?

If so, we need to agree beforehand that the vig claims vanilla.

Fonz, it's looking even worse for you now that you're absent.

Yeah, because only scum have fucking job interviews. I mean, I don't get what looked bad in the first place. Your post reads like a scum who killed DGB so he could say 'Look Fonz did it!'

[PokerFace]

Did some research and it seems 4 scum is standard. Here is what I think

weathers attack on me when dutch was under pressure combined with dutch actually being town makes starbuck town. Don't see weather/ojanen scum defending a townie from me. Dutch being town pretty much cleared ojanen in my mind. I was scum with ojanen once and she was not one to defend town then

Fonz is cleared by logic i gave at end of last day. if he was scum there would have been 2 deaths at day 3 start. The scum anti would have blocked xtoxm and killed him and then CKD died. But since we had 3 deaths with no case also on the table, Fonz is clear

Ruling that out we got:
If Fate is scum korlash is not (I said why I think this before)
If IAM is scum Fate is too (Why else would he unvote SpyreX when me and korlash went at him?)
Red can be scum with anyone (nothing destroys or locks him as being connected to anyone)
Korlash could only be scum with Red (Korlash and Red sounds like a good gut possibility)

Xtoxm obv went to Fate or Korlash

I think I'd like either a dead fate or a dead korlash and hopefully vig will shoot the other should we lynch wrong that way we get a scum no matter what. I'll pick between the two of them later

[PokerFace]

Well actually all that leaves as possible would be

Fate & Red
IAM & Fate
Red & Korlash

Iam & korlash (then why iam unvote spyre?)

Red & Iam (then why did IAM unvote SpyreX?)

Korlash & Fate (Yay that didn't happen and i said why)

That really narows it down.

if Fate/SpyreX is scum then that clears Korlash and means red or iam needs to die
if Fate is town then its Red and Korlash together

I think I'm going to vote fate, gonna double check one thing though

@Fonz would you expect 4 or 5 scum in this game type?

[PokerFace]

and i fail at tags

@Fonz would you expect 4 or 5 scum in this game type?

[RedCoyote]

No, the logic, Fonz-man, is why aren't you dead?

Vote: The Fonz

Our claimed "Town Roleblocker" did not slip through 3 nightkills in succession. That's a pretty huge freaking liability for the scumteam. I was just barely willing to give him the fact that yabba and nocase (allegedly) were killed over him just due to the fact that they were both fairly heavily looked upon as town by most of us. DGB was not. Killing DGB seemingly at random as a VT over a Roleblocker? A Roleblocker that undoubtedly could stop one of their nightkills through scumhunting and with growing statistical probability? A Roleblocker that forced out our Hider? A Roleblocker that has done next to nothing in terms of scumhunting? A Roleblocker that is living on borrowed time thanks to his claim and his claim alone?

No, no, no, no, no!

Fonz has to die.

[Korlash]

Red, You're wrong. The logic, and I'm not saying I agree with it, does not point toward Fonz, but toward Iam. Fonz has the added benefit of not only being an outed power role (One quite frankly I see no reason scum should fear in the slightest) so living casts doubt on him, but a lot of the living players do have suspicions of him, even if they are not strong. Every night he lives increases these suspicions and damages his credibility towards leading the rest of the town.

Iam on the other hand is almost universally accepted as town, short of me and a tangential hypothetical presented by Poker. Not only that, but his credibility towards leading the town seems unwavered even after two straight up failures on his part. If he is town, leaving him alive not only reduces the scum pool by an almost assured one, but allows a favored townie to remain in the game. While his track record doesn't speak highly of him so far, the fact remains it would only take a lucky guess by him to effectively string up a scum. He is by far a bigger threat then some silly little role blocker.

And of course, all of this is stupid logic because any smart scum is looking for the vig. That is literally the one townie who is saving our asses right now and scum's greatest threat. (seeing as how they already run the lynches... Sorry, blatant speculation on my part... Don't let my hatred of Iam and his scum buddies distract you...) Killing Fonz would be stupid and a pointless kill, and killing a townie Iam would be dumb unless the scum actually thought he was the vig, which while possible applies to everyone so it's null.

Not only are you wrong with your logic but it's faulty due to the presence of the proverbial vig.

Now... can we please get to hanging Iam?

*Disclaimer: This argument has taken liberties in assuming both a townie Fonz and a townie Iam simply to make a point. That belief is not shared by Korlash or Korlash affiliates and is a registered trademark of Stupid Ideas for Stupid People, a "learning" company based mostly out of Ted's basement... Is that the type of company you want to agree with? I don't think so...

[RedCoyote]

Yeah, that's a good point about the Vig.

Still, I wouldn't say that "a lot" of players have suspicions on him. Really I think DGB was the only one seriously throwing any suspicion his way. Fate briefly mentioned it, but I shot it down (yesterday).

username, what do you have to say about this? I mean, Korlash is raising some good points here. Not to excuse myself of responsibility, but you were the primary reason the wagon got shifted to Kmd over Cyberbob yesterday. That's a pretty clearcut case of potential scum motivated maneuvering.

[Korlash]

Like i said they aren't necessarily 'strong', but I know there are a number of people here who can honestly say "I have a moderate suspicion of Antihero's slot". No one has been highly public of him because it has been impossible to even start a wagon, much less talk about lynching him. I don't think a lot of us here are actually into wasting their own time. (I know I know... shut up...)

As for the KMD wagon, my short term memory is nil it seems and I find myself lacking the time (or interest I guess) into actually looking it up. Could you give a brief explanation of how he was 'the primary reason'? If this is true this would be the third lynch in a row that he has arguably been the biggest driving force behind.

[RedCoyote]

Before this post, the vote count was this. After that post the vote count was this.

This is what makes me most receptive to your suggestion that username is scum, but I undoubtedly carry some of the weight having been on both inHim and Kmd's wagons myself. Under that context, I can easily see how username can be town.

Fonz is a completely different issue altogether though.

[Korlash]

The increased votes had nothing to do with Iam's post... Nothing at all. And Iam didn't even do anything. with both Chev and Inhim it was "bam" case + research = scum. With KMD it was "bingo + small meta = scum" not even close. Your vote and Nacho's were unreliant on Iam, in fact you seemed against joining him, saying you didn't want to abandon the Cyber wagon... yet you seemed rather quick to do so...

Given the first three votes I would say you were the most primary among them hands down. Nacho would follow a close second and Iam wouldn't even register short of the first vote and minor suggestive evidence.

And considering both Inhim and KMD flipped town I would think after removing yourself from the equation Iam would stand out as the most possible scum influence. instead we find another one of these "woe is me" crap you've been pulling for a while now...

Unvote:, Vote: Red

god that's hard to do... But too little of what you say is adding up, and this constant downtrodden and beaten attitude you keep throwing out screams of you trying to slink into the back of things...

[RedCoyote]

What the heck! Korlash! I thought we were friends to the end. D:

This isn't woe is me, man. I'm stating exactly the issue I have with username and asking for his response to it. Hell, I even stated pretty plainly that I am

not

without blame for the Kmd lynch.

[Korlash]

That's the point. "I'm not without blame" "My scum reads haven't panned out" "I have bared my naked soul" seriously that one was a little creepy.

You seem to be quick to affirm your wrongness whenever possible. A trait of the guilty. It's a deflection, I freely admit being bad so I can't be.

If you want an example, just look at your last three posts. Everyone of them included a jab at yourself, claiming you need to take responsibility or are to blame. Why do you constantly feel the need to tell us this?

And me and Poker have been friends for as long as I can remember and even he hasn't been spared this game... it's nothing personal, friend.

[RedCoyote]

No, Korlash, that's honesty. I've been straight up for the whole game. I am taking some blame because I am due some blame. That's what's fair. It's not a ploy to get you to see me as town. I'm trying to earn town points in spite of my shortcomings as a scumhunter. I'm not ashamed to say that I haven't been 100% on target here. Heck, I sold out my only accurate scumread in favor of Kmd. Kmd who, earlier, I swore up and down was a townie. Me, you, and Fate are all town. Okay, well, maybe I can't get you to agree that Fate is town, but the point is that Fonz is scummy mcscum. If there's a scum buddy after him, then I'm guessing it's one of username or PF.

Does that do anything for you at all? Fonz + username or Fonz + PF?

[iamausername]

Now he comes out with two candidates and picks Poker over Red... Just looking at his evidence given makes Red the better candidate yet he votes poker?

Wait what? Cyberbob attacked RedCoyote constantly, and (unlike when he attacked CKD), this has carried a pretty strong risk of getting RedCoyote lynched at certain points in the game.

PokerFace fought against the Cyberbob wagon yesterday, constantly drawing attention to the distancing between Cyberbob and CKD in an effort to 'prove' that Cyberbob was not scum with CKD.

Which part of this is better evidence against Red than against Poker?

Now, we're massclaiming today, right?

If so, we need to agree beforehand that the vig claims vanilla.

Point. Most power roles, I think that sharing whatever information they have is more important than keeping hidden at this point, but with the vig, we already have the information they provide. So, yeah, this.

Fonz has the added benefit of not only being an outed power role (One quite frankly I see no reason scum should fear in the slightest)

Read this game and then tell me scum have nothing to fear from a town roleblocker.

I don't really have a point here, because I'm pretty sure you're right about the vig being their priority, hence The Fonz's continued survival. Mostly I just want more people to read that game, because it's amazing.

username, what do you have to say about this? I mean, Korlash is raising some good points here. Not to excuse myself of responsibility, but you were the primary reason the wagon got shifted to Kmd over Cyberbob yesterday. That's a pretty clearcut case of potential scum motivated maneuvering.

I don't really have anything to say about it. I unvoted Cyberbob and voted KMD. That's a fact. At the time, I thought it was the right decision, and I was wrong. If you want me to give a more thorough account for why I thought it was the right decision, I guess I could do that, but I prefer not to get hung up defending myself when I could be devoting that effort to finding scum instead.

---

I know that Red and I stand out for being on every single lynching wagon in this game, but let's please not forget PokerFace has also been on every lynching wagon except the first day, when he abstained from voting entirely because he wasn't fully caught up after replacing in. It's easy to forget this fact, because he never made a significant contribution to pushing any of these wagons, he's always been a late voter riding on everyone else's case.

And let's also not ignore the significance of the wagons that didn't reach a lynch. On Day One, before Gorrad and werewolf took the limelight, there was a wagon on Chevre that grew to six votes, starting with Seraphim here, then farside here, then four more from DGB, nocase, inhim and Jerbs starting here.

Katsuki (now PokerFace) joins here. Xalxe joins here. Then Cyberbob joins here.

Here is the pertinent point:

If you believe PokerFace is town, then you believe that on Day One a townie received votes from eight different players, and was constantly the lead wagon of the day, for a full ten pages (covering four days of real time) before a single member of the scum team became interested in joining it.

D2, PokerFace sits his vote on Dutch one for most of the day before switching at the last minute to finish off Chevre.

D3, he sits his vote on SpyreX for most of the day, before switching at the last minute to finish off inhim. Another notable thing about this day is that for a pretty long time, SpyreX and RedCoyote were tied as the lead wagons, and RedCoyote refused to vote SpyreX for this entire period. This day strongly suggests that RedCoyote is not scum with anyone but Fate.

D4, PokerFace sits his vote on no one at all for most of the day, before eventually switching to finish off KMD. What do you think he'll do today?

I'll just say this again:

If you believe PokerFace is town, then you believe that on Day One a townie received votes from eight different players, and was constantly the lead wagon of the day, for a full ten pages (covering four days of real time) before a single member of the scum team became interested in joining it.

[The Fonz]

Town roleblockers are risk/reward. If they're onto the scum, they can be effective, but then, scum won't send someone who the RB suspects to do the kill anyway. Add in the fact that I thought Bob was scum ONLY IF DGB WAS, and DGB ends up dead town... yeah.

Vote: Pokerface

The above argument is compelling, despite my meta feelings on Kats.

[Kublai Khan]

Day 5 Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 4

"Let us be grateful to the people who makes use happy. They are the charming gardeners who make our souls blossom."

- Marcel Proust

PokerFace

- 2 - iamausername, The Fonz

RedCoyote

- 1 - Korlash

The Fonz

- 1 - RedCoyote

Players not voting:

Starbuck, PokerFace, Fate

Notes/Prods

:
- Deadline Secret
- PokerFace will be V/LA June 2-6