Mini 1150 - There Goes the Neighborhood - Game Over

[LimMePls]

Vote Count 2.7

GreyICE (2)

- Seacore, Setael

Packbat (3)

- kryptinen, Nachomamma8, Doombunny9

kryptinen (0)

-

Doombunny9 (0)

-

Setael (1)

- GreyICE

Powerrox93 (0)

-

Seacore (3)

- Packbat, Twistedspoon, AurorusVox

LlamaFluff (0)

-

Nachomamma8 (0)

-

Twistedspoon (0)

-

AurorusVox (1)

- LlamaFluff

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (1)

- Powerrox93

11 votes available, 6 votes needed for an arrest

1) All players are within the posting guidelines.

Deadline is May 20, ~11 am EDT

[Nachomamma8]

Also scumday... hard to believe three years.

Yup. You're old as shit.

How a Jedo/Grey lynch would give him more information about Set than a Set lynch is beyond me.

Could you link me to where Seacore said this?

At this point I'd be fine with either a Sea or a Pack lynch.

And you wouldn't be fine with a Set/Nacho/Llama/krypt/AV/Icey/Spoon/Powerrox lynch?

I also think you're scum here. So I see no real need to defend against your accusations.

>.>
Seacore, can you see the problem with this?

I'm cool with Set being the lynch today. I've said that, whatever wagon between you and her is bigger, I'll be on. Right now, you're on her wagon alone.

Why would you promise something like that? It seems limiting.

Maybe an example will make my point clearer. Say someone has a guilty result, outs it, and then gets NK'd the next night. Power here can't watch that player because he's restricted himself to ONLY his neighbours. That's perfect for a scum fakeclaim, isn't it?

A One-shot position mover flipped. PR is fairly close to confirmed town for me.

In that spirit, since it seems no one is willing to lynch Power today, can we at least give Kryptinen the rope?

Why? You haven't said anything on her lately...

[GreyICE]

Maybe an example will make my point clearer. Say someone has a guilty result, outs it, and then gets NK'd the next night. Power here can't watch that player because he's restricted himself to ONLY his neighbours. That's perfect for a scum fakeclaim, isn't it?

A One-shot position mover flipped. PR is fairly close to confirmed town for me.

He may be confirmed Watcher.
Confirmed role != Conf. town

That being said I don't read him as scummy anyway, so I think he's another dud wagon being pushed.

How a Jedo/Grey lynch would give him more information about Set than a Set lynch is beyond me.

Could you link me to where Seacore said this?

Set is scummy because of her actions. She's scummy because she uses any excuse to vote for somebody who she has claimed is scummy. Even when that person is a VIABLE LYNCH.

You are scummy, unfortunately for you, for the way Jedo's wagon grew and dissolved. Jumping onto what I view as the scummy wagon that failed as soon as I can and staying there for some time is exactly what I should be doing. Just because Set is bussing you doesn't make you town. My opinion is that Set has decided that Jedo is worth bussing because he was pretty useless and enough people found him suspicious. She's now trying like mad to link me to your inevitable scum flip to try and save herself.
It's unfortunate for you, because you're a little more competent than Jedo and she probably wouldn't want to bus YOU that hard, but that die has been cast.

I want to emphasise this so you can stop pretending it's a scum tell. Finding both Set and You scummy and voting You is not an accident. Get that Set wagon going, I'm all for anybody who doesn't find you scummy to vote for Set and if it gets into majority, I'll vote Set. (*waits for Set to start screaming that I'm trying to jump off the Jedo/GI wagon*)

Actually... why the fuck am I not voting Seacore? His ISO is humiliating.

edit: ninja'd by Doom. Read above,

I find Jedo/GI a suitable lynch on it's own.

I really think it'll flip scum. The fact that my two top scum reads have a clear relationship with each other only strengthens my read

Yes,

you are scummy because of the actions of other scum.

Town Jedo should have been the mis-lynch yesterday. It was easier to do, with no added guilt for the participants, than the Quar mislynch. Neither looked like a stronger town read, neither had soft-claimed PRs. So scum should have been happy to ride Town-Jedo to D1 mislynch.

But they didn't. That's because there was no Town Jedo, there's only Scum-Jedo. So yes, I'm sorry GI, you've been let down by your scum buddies. They've outted you. I can't work out who they all are, only Set seems super obvious. I'm guessing at least one other abandoned your wagon too. So I'll just be satisfied with lynching either you or Set today. Then when one of you flips scum, I'll lynch the other.

*sigh*
God I hope he's not town. Llama,

more reasoning for this town read.

Especially when he's derailing you from someone you ostenably think is scummy. STAT.

[Nachomamma8]

I take Kryp's failure to answer my questions to be a scumtell. Just look how long I had to pester him before I got a straight answer about his unvote.

I interpreted a lot of the trouble in you getting your answer to have to do with the language barrier. Do you disagree with that?

There's also his pressure on you for hammering 46 minutes before the deadline (?), and the complete reversal of his Jedo read. It seems ISO's have changed so you can't see the drastic shift from P1 to P2, but if you read him you should see the way it completely disintegrates and turns into a null read, with him explicitly positioning himself against the wagon.

I was the one pushing the Jedo wagon the most adamantly, and I'm pretty sure that you never questioned me on that.

I am aware that I may be biased due to my frustrations at having to work so hard to get an answer yesterday.

I will never take your krypt case seriously until you go "okay, I think that krypt is scum and I'm pushing her lynch because of that", and not "oh well i might just be lynchin her cuz she didn't answer my questions yesterday LOL".

Could people (Seacore and ICE) please keep the meta down? That kind of play restricts people.

Not quite sure what you're getting at here.

when the wagon fell apart in a way that I'd expect a scum wagon to fall apart.

Can you make this not ridiculously vague, please?

[Nachomamma8]

He may be confirmed Watcher.
Confirmed role != Conf. town

That being said I don't read him as scummy anyway, so I think he's another dud wagon being pushed.

It makes him confirmed town because of how he interacts with Wicked's role.
Both are fairly useless without the other.

[Nachomamma8]

1. I've already explained this. Pointing it out beforehand was the main thing that was later explained as "too scummy to be scum" and, if it was premeditated, that was clearly part of it.
2. The answer to your question is what I was referring to as obvious.

1.

Anyway, I see we have a failure to communicate. I put my vote down randomly, but I don't move it at the slightest whim or defense because I might have accidentally hit scum. krypt didn't give a good enough defense for me to move my vote. That's at least leaning scum. I believe I should leave it there as long as there is continued vote support before moving on to my next scum candidate, in this case Spoon. *shrug* If that's scummy, so be it.

My one remark is that if I saw someone else playing like this, I would think it is so obvscum as to be townie. (Unless I better understood their philosophy.)[/quote]
No, that's not what he was trying to explain away with the "too scummy to be scum" defense.

2. I know. I was asking why your answer was so obvious.

That was not said until after the post I'm talking about where Jedo pointed out that Krypt was at L-1 but didn't unvote. At that point the ONLY thing he had given as far as his read on Krypt was: "Meh. I don't see the scumminess of kryptinen. I actually understand where she's coming from, and I applaud the effort to get town discussing."

Yes, but he later explained the read. Why didn't you buy his explanation?

Even with good reasoning it was way too early to end D1, and the person would've been hammering with Jedo on the wagon who had a town read on Krypt.

But he didn't have a town read on krypt. He said that later.

Don't put words in my mouth. What I'm saying is that it was not an RVS bandwagon. The votes on Krypt were not random. That fact has no bearing on whether the reasoning for the votes was any good. I think Jedo and Seacore are scum, so what do you think I think of the Krypt wagon? (Or you could go back and read my posts since I've already covered this.)

I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm asking questions.
I also didn't ask what you thought of the krypt wagon. I didn't ask whether you thought the votes were strong or not.
I asked you if you thought the case on krypt was strong enough to get her lynched.

I didn't expect Seacore to stay on Jedo this long. I thought he would unvote and vote me, which would make sense since he was posting so many reasons to think I'm scum. I'm guessing he didn't because I called him on it.

So if he switches, he's caving to your pressure. If he doesn't, he's scared of you calling him out.

I'm not providing a full list of reads. Care to provide a reason why I should? The Power wagon was suspicious because I believe his claim and think scum would be motivated to mislynch a PR if anything about the claim is at all out of the ordinary. Thinking about it, I can see townies being suspicious of the claim so I'm less wary of AV and Packbat for it, but no it doesn't influence my read on Power because I believe his claim and still think he wouldn't have claimed the way he did if he's scum.

1) You probably haven't fleshed out your reads very well, so posting them would make you put more effort into finding scum outside of your little bubble.
2) You're not taking positions on non-Ice/Seacore anything. Providing reads and taking positions would allow me to separate you from a fencesitting scumbag.
3) You will promote discussion on scumreads that no one else is really looking at, and you might convince others that your townreads are town.

Okay, three good reasons for why you should. Now, give me three good reasons for why you shouldn't.

[GreyICE]

Setael is just... classic active lurking scum. I almost want to publish her posts and put them in a book.

The worst, by far, is her habit of just dropping questions and forgetting things. If we remove Jedo and (to a lesser extent) NS/Wicked points, Setael is just randomly asking questions.

She doesn't care at all about the answers.

For instance:

@Power - can you address this point? You can't write off Nacho's case as lurking. You said you would comment on the Krypt case and never did and you haven't said much about Jedo either. Plus, I agree with this point about your post 162.

He never responds. No followup.

In fact she rarely pushes much of anyone. He interactions are in a narrow cone - scum looking for mislynches, not town pushing the entire town. Despite this, she's suspicious of a vast number of people.

So basically, Nacho is the only one who moved from Jedo to Power that I don't find suspicious.

So basically, she's suspicious of:
Seacore
AV
Doombunny
Krypt
Quaroth

The only person she's not suspicious of is... the person we have to lynch the day before LyLo anyway?

Oh, and the catchup soons. The catchup soons. My lord, the catchup soons.
19th

I'm way behind. Will read up and post tonight.

TBF... does catch up... kinda:

Not quite caught up.

21st (next post)

Read my post again. "Him" in what you quoted is referring to Jedo, not Power.

And no, I'm not caught up. As I stated.

OK, caught up. The Quaroth case is solid, but I'd still prefer a Jedo lynch. I need to reread the attention shift from him to Power. Pretty sure scum had a hand in it.

Rides bandwagons to end of D1

==============Day 2================
April 30th

I'm not caught up. I'll try to post tonight.

Lots of whiny self-defense, then...

May 6th:

Will catch up and post today.

More defense.

I'm only caught up to that Nacho post. More later hopefully.

Setael is coasting BADLY.

[LlamaFluff]

@Grey - I just am a little stuck in a circle right now, I actually can completely see Sea-Set pairing at this point given the convo that I had with Sea last night. This is especially true if you are town. At the same time though, I just see zero motivation for Sea-scum to do what he did if AV is town, I mean, why argue someone who is stubborn on a scum read off them if you are scum and they are town? If its really Sea-Set-AV im going to laugh over it.

I could get behind a Set lynch, but want to think a second longer on Sea first.

unvote
Vote Set

[Nachomamma8]

Llama.
Are you forgetting something?

[Nachomamma8]

We're not doing Packbat because of what Wicked said in the QT

If Packbat doesn't do his reread by the deadline, I will get him lynched. There's absolutely no excuse for him being able to make all those posts and yet not being able to even start his reread. It's pathetic, and it's not the Packbat I'm used to. I know he's a capable player, and I know he has time to catch up. So, he's going to catch up or he's going to be dead.

[Doombunny9]

Could you link me to where Seacore said this?

In Sea iso #34 he votes Jedo because the Jedo wagon "fell apart" when it shouldn't have and because it would give more information (Which is flimsy at best). When asked about the information he was going to get he says in post 40 that the information he was going to get was a) Things he couldn't talk about because they'd be ruined and b) Information about Set. Since getting information about Set was one of the larger parts of why he was voting Jedo, I saw no reason he would vote Jedo over Set since a Set lynch would give more information about Set.

And you wouldn't be fine with a Set/Nacho/Llama/krypt/AV/Icey/Spoon/Powerrox lynch?

If the people there were the only choices I'd be fine with them. Its better than a NL. What I meant to say was that as of right now, I would like to see either Pack or Sea as the lynch today.

I actually can completely see Sea-Set pairing at this point given the convo that I had with Sea last night.

Why is this just now being mentioned? Please tell us about it.

[GreyICE]

We're not doing Packbat because of what Wicked said in the QT

If Packbat doesn't do his reread by the deadline, I will get him lynched. There's absolutely no excuse for him being able to make all those posts and yet not being able to even start his reread. It's pathetic, and it's not the Packbat I'm used to. I know he's a capable player, and I know he has time to catch up. So, he's going to catch up or he's going to be dead.

I think we'll have better luck with Setael and Seacore anyway. I'm getting a townie vibe off of some of Packbat's posts and I think you're reaching a little here.

Gimme a little townie trust. I mean I know you're not town, technically, but if you don't like my explanation tomorrow, lynch me. This is a fucking dumb gambit for me to be doing to save a scumbuddy.

[LlamaFluff]

I actually can completely see Sea-Set pairing at this point given the convo that I had with Sea last night.

Why is this just now being mentioned? Please tell us about it.

Its not strong, thats why. Was just a JJ over Set push, which I completely agreed with at the time given how good of partners they looked like there. The connection between Sea and AV is far far stronger, as Sea actually was metaing him as town, and thats why I really cant see Sea as scum if AV is town. Why would you ever meta defend town against a player who you know is fairly stubborn as scum when I start showing a few signs of second guessing myself? Basic answer is you would not.

[Packbat]

What makes it become scummy is the duration - he didn't unvote until #171

Other people have kept their votes on Krypt for a long amount of time as well (Glass/Llama, AV, Jedo) Yet you didn't really mention any of these people. Why is that?

Finish the sentence.

What makes it become scummy is the duration - he didn't unvote until #171

- and the similarity of his behavior elsewhere.

Other players went on to make plays I consider reasonable (mostly). Seacore ... didn't.

We're not doing Packbat because of what Wicked said in the QT

If Packbat doesn't do his reread by the deadline, I will get him lynched. There's absolutely no excuse for him being able to make all those posts and yet not being able to even start his reread. It's pathetic, and it's not the Packbat I'm used to. I know he's a capable player, and I know he has time to catch up. So, he's going to catch up or he's going to be dead.

Dude, I am

exhausted

. I'll be doing the best I can, but I have been just struggling trying to grind through this stuff.

[Setael]

Grey, your accusation that I'm lurking is ridiculous. I've devoted plenty of time to this game, it's just all been answering Nacho's questions. I answered them when I came to them and had no time to read the rest of the thread.

It's also false to say I've done nothing. I haven't been able to be as active as I'd like lately, but I certainly haven't been absent. You're just trying to dismiss my case against Jedo, but calling me a bitch and telling everyone my posts are worthless does not make them go away. Your slot is scum and that doesn't change just because you replace in.

I'm not surprised at your attempt to get a wagon on me going now that your buddy Seacore is on the ropes. You're both obvscum.

Unvote, vote: Seacore

[Doombunny9]

L-2 for Sea.

@Pack- Can you explain what you mean by a reasonable play? What makes Sea's case unreasonable compared to everyone elses?

@Set- What changed in between this post and your last that made you want to vote Sea? Oh that's right. Nothing except that Sea has more votes on him now. His newest "reasoning" on Grey in this last post is full of OMGUS it's hilarious. Rather than actually push a case on Grey or Sea he just calls them obvscum.

Unvote, Vote: Set

Packs latest posting is good anyway and I was getting less of a scumread on him... If only he would do more scumhunting.

[Setael]

What are you talking about Doom? Seacore is scum and Grey is scum. Seacore is more likely to be lynched today, so I'm voting him. What's so hard to understand about that?

Please point out what you are calling omgus. Grey's slot is scum independent of his suspicion of me.

I've only had access from my phone all day, so you shouldn't be expecting fancy, detailed cases. I'm voting sea because he's scum with a decent wagon. It's ridiculous that grey calls the votes on sea fishy while saying himself how scummy he thinks sea is. He's bussing sea while simultaneously trying to dismantle his wagon and get one going on me.

They both need to die. Happy to have sea go first.

[Seacore]

Well given the Grey Ice wagon has fallen apart, I'm happy for Set to die first.

Unvote. Vote Set

[Doombunny9]

What are you talking about Doom? Seacore is scum and Grey is scum. Seacore is more likely to be lynched today, so I'm voting him. What's so hard to understand about that?

I understand it just fine. However, this play of yours (And Sea too) doesn't look pro-town to me, rather opportunistic scum. Both of you are just jumping on whatever large wagon you agree while pushing for no single person in particular.

Please point out what you are calling omgus. Grey's slot is scum independent of his suspicion of me.

I found your latest revelation to have an element of OMGUS when you said "You're just trying to dismiss my case against Jedo, but calling me a bitch and telling everyone my posts are worthless does not make them go away. Your slot is scum and that doesn't change just because you replace in." which just looks to me as if you're calling him scum because he doesn't like your posts. It may be a bit of a stretch on its own but with the rest of the information on you, it fits right in.

[Seacore]

Doom, that's stupid.

Set (is pretending that she) believes I and GreyIce are scum
I believe that Set and GreyIce are scum

We are the only two people who are voting GreyIce, pretty much everybody else has weighed in on the GreyIce case and have dismissed it.

So what do we do, sit there sharing a stalled wagon with a person we each believe is bussing? Or do we vote for our other scum read?

[Powerrox93]

@Mod: You should update the OP with Wicked's death

You're subtly confirming yourself here by proxy if Seacore is a mislynch since 'why would I defend him' (it's called a White Knight, they can do wonders).

What does "by proxy" means? If I've heard it before I've forgotten it now.

It makes him confirmed town because of how he interacts with Wicked's role.
Both are fairly useless without the other.

But I could get some information from watching my righboors, couldn't I?

Could people (Seacore and ICE) please keep the meta down? That kind of play restricts people.

Not quite sure what you're getting at here.

What I think she means is that they're using meta as a to large reason for their actions.

[Packbat]

@Pack- Can you explain what you mean by a reasonable play? What makes Sea's case unreasonable compared to everyone elses?

I don't know about

everyone

else - I haven't gone through and individually checked each player's ISO - but I haven't noticed the kind of shallowness and weird* self-inconsistency I see in Seacore anywhere else. If it

exists

somewhere else, I'd be glad to know.

* I'm not sure how to articulate why I consider his reversal on Jedo the Jedi scummy, but that's the concrete example I'm thinking of.

[Doombunny9]

@Sea- You build a case on the person you most want lynched and vote them. For example, from your posts I can tell that your strongest read was on Set yet you continued to vote Jedo because he was the largest wagon. If you wanted a Set wagon to form, wouldn't it make the most sense to be voting him?

@Set-Who do you currently find more scummy, the Grey/Jedo slot or the Sea slot? When did you start finding Sea "obvscum"?

Unvote

Need to read Sea and Set in iso later.

[kryptinen]

Okay, first I have only one excuse to make: every time I have opened the computer I have ended up reading manga, so everyone's free to call me a lazy ass.

@AV: Your problem is that you only focus on a few players at a time and say nothing about other people, even if everyone else is talking about them. You could easily say you have a null read on someone and leave it at that, or say that you have not seen them do anything particularly scummy, like you just did. Why do I need to drag that out of you? Newsflash, the wagon on your scumbuddy is not going anywhere, even if you don't look at it.

Could people (Seacore and ICE) please keep the meta down? That kind of play restricts people.

Not quite sure what you're getting at here.

It's limiting in two ways:
1) It pushes people into the same playstyle they played when they first joined this site, because people demand links to games where they have done Y.
2) It's hard for people who have not played with certain players yet and who don't have time to read several games.

All in all, it takes some of the fun out of the game and prevents differentiating gameplay.

@Doom: This game, believe it or not, has several scum. That means people can be pushing two wagons and both of them can be scum. Is tunneling really what this game needs more? I can see no good town-reason to not jump on a wagon that seems scummy, even if you were originally in a wagon that seemed even scummier. The order in which we lynch the scum doesn't matter. (Scum disappointed in a failed mislynch?)

@Sea: I still second Doom's question. Which wagon did you want more? If Jedo/ICE lynch gives you the most information, why don't you find reasons to get others to vote him instead of attacking Set repeatedly?

It's ridiculous that grey calls the votes on sea fishy while saying himself how scummy he thinks sea is.

Where is this?

@Everyone who believes in Set-Sea team: What would you do if one of them flipped town?

I just can't get a clear read on either one of them. All three of them (Sea/Set/ICE) do their damnest to keep the bickering between the tree of them (Well, Seacore told us what he thinks of TS and Pack, but that can be either to honestly let us know what he thinks or to deflect the discussion onto someone else.) All in all, both Set and Sea seem to be playing in a frighteningly same way. So, Set and Sea: What makes your playstyle different from the other? Why should I vote the other and not you?

[Twistedspoon]

I read set as town

just thought I'd say :/